Zentraedi and P.P.E.

[Tyranneix]

just curious, has this ever been covered? If they come to RIFTS each, what it the starting P.P.E. and does it change between full size and micronized?

[Colonel Wolfe]

just curious, has this ever been covered? If they come to RIFTS each, what it the starting P.P.E. and does it change between full size and micronized?

If PPE is based off a Physical start that changes between sizes... I could see it going up.

[jaymz]

I think they have purposefully left this out. I;d say give them the typical amount for a human and not let it change between micro and macro size.

[Damian Magecraft]

just curious, has this ever been covered? If they come to RIFTS each, what it the starting P.P.E. and does it change between full size and micronized?

If PPE is based off a Physical start that changes between sizes... I could see it going up.

PE is commonly added to the base PPE of Magic classes. This is the only time I can see it effecting the PPE of a Zent.

PPE "conversions" are not offered in the 1st edition version of CB1.
It does however offer base line PPE stats for general races.
Take your pick of these that most closely fit.

Normal human - 3d6
Mutant human - 6d6
Giant races - 1d4x10
most other races - 3d6

personally I would classify them under most other races and leave it at that.
(size really has nothing to with PPE.)

[Kovoston]

just curious, has this ever been covered? If they come to RIFTS each, what it the starting P.P.E. and does it change between full size and micronized?

If PPE is based off a Physical start that changes between sizes... I could see it going up.

PE is commonly added to the base PPE of Magic classes. This is the only time I can see it effecting the PPE of a Zent.

PPE "conversions" are not offered in the 1st edition version of CB1.
It does however offer base line PPE stats for general races.
Take your pick of these that most closely fit.

Normal human - 3d6
Mutant human - 6d6
Giant races - 1d4x10
most other races - 3d6

personally I would classify them under most other races and leave it at that.
(size really has nothing to with PPE.)

Agreed!

[taalismn]

Frankly I'd love to see a Zentraedi Combat Mage.
"Oh YEAH, Micronian?! Well, getting stick on this planet when the Protoculture ran out forced us to learn new things! Let me introduce you to one of them!(#SUMMON METEOR STRIKE!!#)"

[Damian Magecraft]

Frankly I'd love to see a Zentraedi Combat Mage.
"Oh YEAH, Micronian?! Well, getting stick on this planet when the Protoculture ran out forced us to learn new things! Let me introduce you to one of them!(#SUMMON METEOR STRIKE!!#)"

yeah a full size zent mage of any stripe would make an interesting villain but I do not think I would want to use one as a PC.

Although now I will have to make one Cause now that I have thought about it a full size Zent would have a few problems of his own that a decent GM could take advantage of.

[Colonel Wolfe]

Much woser is when the Fullsized zent casts the spell that makes him Grow in height, and become natural mdc...

[Kovoston]

Frankly I'd love to see a Zentraedi Combat Mage.
"Oh YEAH, Micronian?! Well, getting stick on this planet when the Protoculture ran out forced us to learn new things! Let me introduce you to one of them!(#SUMMON METEOR STRIKE!!#)"

(Grins)
I like your thinking taalismn! You don't see many giants on Mt. Nimro using that concept!

[Tyranneix]

Frankly I'd love to see a Zentraedi Combat Mage.
"Oh YEAH, Micronian?! Well, getting stick on this planet when the Protoculture ran out forced us to learn new things! Let me introduce you to one of them!(#SUMMON METEOR STRIKE!!#)"

(Grins)
I like your thinking taalismn! You don't see many giants on Mt. Nimro using that concept!

Yeah I've been using the Zentraedi as villians and npcs for years.. never mixed magic with them.. stay tuned for a 3G Zentradi Combat Mage OCC.

I'm already shuddering at the thought.

[Lt Gargoyle]

I have used Psychic's in past games. but i like the thought of a full size Zentradi hurling fire balls and shooting electricity from his fingers. the image of on the players face as they realize they are not fighting the typical Zentradi villian will be priceless.

[Lt Gargoyle]

well i am open to a new Mage OCC for them, but i am thinking it would be purely a warrior Mage who is wanting to be in the thick of the battle him/herself. with the highlord, warlord and warrior elites being the only ones able to be a mage.

only defense and heavy offense magic. non of the spells which they really would have no use of.

[jaymz]

as for actual PPE base, you could give them 6d6 based on the fact they are essentially adolescents/mutant humans since thier dna modification allows them to be resized and htier indoctrination reallymakes warrios that think like teenagers outside of combat thus more susceptible ot beliving things etc.

[Colonel Wolfe]

as for actual PPE base, you could give them 6d6 based on the fact they are essentially adolescents/mutant humans since thier dna modification allows them to be resized and htier indoctrination reallymakes warrios that think like teenagers outside of combat thus more susceptible ot beliving things etc.

yeah, If you listen to Kyhron when he first appears... he has a bet going wiht his shipmat about how many ships they will collide wiht on foldin
Plus, they are all virgins tooo.. maybe higher PPE for that early on...

[Tiree]

as for actual PPE base, you could give them 6d6 based on the fact they are essentially adolescents/mutant humans since thier dna modification allows them to be resized and htier indoctrination reallymakes warrios that think like teenagers outside of combat thus more susceptible ot beliving things etc.

yeah, If you listen to Kyhron when he first appears... he has a bet going wiht his shipmat about how many ships they will collide wiht on foldin
Plus, they are all virgins tooo.. maybe higher PPE for that early on...

I am not so sure about the latter half of your post.

But I am of the opinion that their food that is synthesized has chemicals that make a Zentran Sterile, but ups their testosterone for their Warrior Instinct. Thus by the time New Gen comes around Zentraedi Statistics are that of Humans and there is no radical shift in Character Gen. But that is just my theory/opinion.

[Tyranneix]

Creating a new magic using O.C.C., . . . how about Zentraedi Proto-Mage, . . . Zen-Magnus, . . . Zentraedi Spatial Walker, . . . perhaps, Cosmic Zen?

we should work on this together..

Given their knowledge of peryton 'magic' I can definitely see them taking the steps toward mages.. a battle mage definitely..

[batlchip]

I was thinking maybe a Zent Tattoo Man? I think that would be cool.They could be a spurgorth slave.

[Tyranneix]

Oh my goodness, I just thought something wild, . . . what if, . . . the Cosmic Forge, . . . made a, . . . Zentraedi Cosmo-Knight?!

May the Forge save us all! WOW.. Damn Ryu, that's just wrong!

[FreelancerMar]

With the Zentraedi Mindset, I really cannot see them learning magic per-se. as in no wizard classes that "Learn" Magic and Spells. However this would not neccessarily pre-clude them from using magic. Using the Palladium system setup, I could see Zent Warlocks and possabily Zent Priests. It must be remembered that an educated "Wizaed" like class takes well over a decade to learn which is why aprenticeship starts when most are still children. Then there is the whole"Whom" would have the patience to train this person as well??? There are magic Using classes that do not require the whole University type education thing which would be fine for a zent to pick up. However I just cannot see a zent bent over a book to learn magic thing. However that is just me. Now here is a wrinkle. Ofspring from a Zentradi+Zentraedi Mating and raised in a Human like enviornment would probably not have the above restrictions. (Thinking of "The End of the circle") guess you just have to flesh it out.

[ShadowLogan]

Colonel Wolfe wrote:
Tyranneix wrote:
just curious, has this ever been covered? If they come to RIFTS each, what it the starting P.P.E. and does it change between full size and micronized?
If PPE is based off a Physical start that changes between sizes... I could see it going up.
PE is commonly added to the base PPE of Magic classes. This is the only time I can see it effecting the PPE of a Zent.

1E Zentreadi: PE is x100 when going from Micronized to full size.
2E Zentreadi: PE is x2 when going from Micronized to full size (or as it is listed in the book 1/2 going full to micronized).

So if PE is a factor for PPE calculations it will effect the resulting PPE. In 1E a Giant Zentreadi would have hundreds of points (300-2400+) of PPE more than when they are micronized. 2E Giant Zentreadi are closer to what you see normally, but as Giants they have a very high PE (18-48+Dice depending on the type of).

[Tyranneix]

I was thinking of giving them a base of 3D6 like humans while micronized and 1D6x10 when full size.

Zentraedi mages (god forbid) would have this added to whatever the OCC allows plus their PE.

I think I'll use that and go from there.

Thanks for the discussion.

oh and I can see the Zentraedi support caste (like Exedore) learning magic.

[taalismn]

Oh my goodness, I just thought something wild, . . . what if, . . . the Cosmic Forge, . . . made a, . . . Zentraedi Cosmo-Knight?!

May the Forge save us all! WOW.. Damn Ryu, that's just wrong!

No, that's freakin' AWESOME.
Male or Female, it doesn't matter.
Hell, go for the field goal. Have Breetai survive his encounter with the Regent by being reborn by the Cosmic Forge...
*I'M STARTING A NEW FRANCHISE IN YOUR UNIVERSE. YOU HAVE BEEN SELECTED AS PART OF MY NEW PROMOTIONAL PROGRAM*

[Lt Gargoyle]

With the Zentraedi Mindset, I really cannot see them learning magic per-se. as in no wizard classes that "Learn" Magic and Spells. However this would not neccessarily pre-clude them from using magic. Using the Palladium system setup, I could see Zent Warlocks and possabily Zent Priests. It must be remembered that an educated "Wizaed" like class takes well over a decade to learn which is why aprenticeship starts when most are still children. Then there is the whole"Whom" would have the patience to train this person as well??? There are magic Using classes that do not require the whole University type education thing which would be fine for a zent to pick up. However I just cannot see a zent bent over a book to learn magic thing. However that is just me. Now here is a wrinkle. Ofspring from a Zentradi+Zentraedi Mating and raised in a Human like enviornment would probably not have the above restrictions. (Thinking of "The End of the circle") guess you just have to flesh it out.

This is a good point, so have the full size zentradi hit with psychic abilities, when they first come out of the clone chambers they are children, yea they may have the skills for combat but thats about it. so as they survive some fatal crash on some backwards planet they are forced to make do. thier exposure to the protoculter/flower of life, allows a handful to develop their natural psychic talents. SInce most of them at warriors thier talent would be for war. however for those in support positions they could develop other talents which could allow them to repair or modify thier ship.

Having a half Zent/human as a mage is ok, however i think in the robotech universe they would reject magic for scienice, at least till they meet the preytons, however thier powers are/were considered side effects of the war's radiation. So i doubt that preytons would make good teachers for either Zentradi or human.

[Tyranneix]

Oh my goodness, I just thought something wild, . . . what if, . . . the Cosmic Forge, . . . made a, . . . Zentraedi Cosmo-Knight?!

May the Forge save us all! WOW.. Damn Ryu, that's just wrong!

No, that's freakin' AWESOME.
Male or Female, it doesn't matter.
Hell, go for the field goal. Have Breetai survive his encounter with the Regent by being reborn by the Cosmic Forge...
*I'M STARTING A NEW FRANCHISE IN YOUR UNIVERSE. YOU HAVE BEEN SELECTED AS PART OF MY NEW PROMOTIONAL PROGRAM*

Who says he died? Maybe the Forge Claimed him. I see a new NPC coming.. Thanks Taalism!

[taalismn]

[
Who says he died? Maybe the Forge Claimed him. I see a new NPC coming.. Thanks Taalism!

Where'd you think I was going to get the Mistress of the Cosmic Forge? Musica's 'dead' sister of course!

[Tyranneix]

[
Who says he died? Maybe the Forge Claimed him. I see a new NPC coming.. Thanks Taalism!

Where'd you think I was going to get the Mistress of the Cosmic Forge? Musica's 'dead' sister of course!

I'm gonna have to roll up a zentraedi comso-knight. just fr the hell of it now..

so should I go full size and you think I'd be able to post it here or is that a big no-no?

[Colonel Wolfe]

so should I go full size and you think I'd be able to post it here or is that a big no-no?

to be on the safe side, its a no-no... since its a conversion of game stats.

[Lt Gargoyle]

i agree if you want to make a full Size Zentradi Mage/Psychic Start from scratch.

[Sgt Anjay]

Actually....if its just a Zentraedi Cosmo-Knight, isn't that just applying a Palladium Books OCC to a Palladium Books RCC? He wouldn't be converting anything.

[Colonel Wolfe]

Actually....if its just a Zentraedi Cosmo-Knight, isn't that just applying a Palladium Books OCC to a Palladium Books RCC? He wouldn't be converting anything.

Maybe, maybe not.
The no Mecha stats rule prohibits posting Stats form home brewed things.
yes its a Palaldium occ, and a Licensed-Palladium RCC... its honestly up to the moderators.
Thou i think posting a "Robotech SAMAS" would be a no no for sure.
even thou its stats for a Palaldium powerarmor, for use in Robotech... (the rule says no Mecha... nothing about power armor)

[taalismn]

Where'd you think I was going to get the Mistress of the Cosmic Forge? Musica's 'dead' sister of course!

Oh my. What a wonderful idea right there, . . . resurrecting dead characters. Hmmm, . . . the possibilities.

In Aliens Unlimited there's also Void Zombies which are Undead monsters who inhabit spaced corpses(although I think there may be ritual involved rather than just any old corpse floating along....but one could still claim a mutant variant). All those dead Zentraedi floating around in space...oh, it's ZOMBIE TIME!

And Dimensional Outbreak has Void Demons made from people mutated by exposure to hyperspace.

The Splugorth would LOVE to have a few captive Zentraedi to play with; all that flesh, a perfect canvas to work out ideas(I'd done a Bionicle-related conversion/xover back in the day that dealt with that very idea). Add in Genesplicers and others like them who'd like to show the Tirolians how REALLY to make supersoldiers.

Back in the day, when various comic companies had free reign on the Robotech property, there was one story that dealt with the Zentraedi(pre-Terran contact) dealing with a misfolded Quadranno ship that came out missing pieces...Breetai's rescue team encounters a female Zentraedi spacewalking WITHOUT a spacesuit and clearly possessed by something OTHER(her arms trasforming into armor-piercing tentacles are kinda a dead give-away that something isn't right). s

So resurrecting the dead through Rifts-related stuff isn't always a beneficial powerup.

[Tyranneix]

It's all good people. I'll make it and if you want to see it I can PM it or email it to you.

Where'd you think I was going to get the Mistress of the Cosmic Forge? Musica's 'dead' sister of course!

Oh my. What a wonderful idea right there, . . . resurrecting dead characters. Hmmm, . . . the possibilities.

In Aliens Unlimited there's also Void Zombies which are Undead monsters who inhabit spaced corpses(although I think there may be ritual involved rather than just any old corpse floating along....but one could still claim a mutant variant). All those dead Zentraedi floating around in space...oh, it's ZOMBIE TIME!

And Dimensional Outbreak has Void Demons made from people mutated by exposure to hyperspace.

The Splugorth would LOVE to have a few captive Zentraedi to play with; all that flesh, a perfect canvas to work out ideas(I'd done a Bionicle-related conversion/xover back in the day that dealt with that very idea). Add in Genesplicers and others like them who'd like to show the Tirolians how REALLY to make supersoldiers.

Back in the day, when various comic companies had free reign on the Robotech property, there was one story that dealt with the Zentraedi(pre-Terran contact) dealing with a misfolded Quadranno ship that came out missing pieces...Breetai's rescue team encounters a female Zentraedi spacewalking WITHOUT a spacesuit and clearly possessed by something OTHER(her arms trasforming into armor-piercing tentacles are kinda a dead give-away that something isn't right). s

So resurrecting the dead through Rifts-related stuff isn't always a beneficial powerup.

You are a very twisted man taalismn. very twisted indeed. I like that!

[Damian Magecraft]

Sick - Full sized Zent LLW
Sick & Twisted - Full sized Zent Necromancer
Sick, Twisted, & evil - Full Sized Zent, Necromacer/Fleshsculptor
Using all three against the party...
I got called a sick, twisted, evil little bastard. (its not a good game unless atleast one of my players calls me that.)

[Lt Gargoyle]

It's all good people. I'll make it and if you want to see it I can PM it or email it to you.

You are a very twisted man taalismn. very twisted indeed. I like that!

Tyranneix I would enjoy reading what you come up with.

And I agree taalismn you are twisted. I shall use these ideas in the future myself

[slade the sniper]

Frankly I'd love to see a Zentraedi Combat Mage.
"Oh YEAH, Micronian?! Well, getting stick on this planet when the Protoculture ran out forced us to learn new things! Let me introduce you to one of them!(#SUMMON METEOR STRIKE!!#)"

I could see this as a sort of Perytonian trained special ops outfit! Highly cool idea. I think I will have to make a character of this. Thanks.

-STS

[drewkitty ~..~]

just curious, has this ever been covered? If they come to RIFTS each, what it the starting P.P.E. and does it change between full size and micronized?

It depends if you are using RT1 or RT2/M2 rules sets.

RT1 yes (micronized zents having an above average that of humans and full sized zents having a PE x100 of their miconized PE)
RT2/M2 no (all zents having the same PE no matter what size they are)

[taalismn]

Well, be careful when you start ladling out the evil to the bad guys.
Khyron the Backstabber, Vampire, is bad enough.
Having Zor Prime make a bid at killing the Masters only to have them blow the airlocks, spacing a few hundred clones, then turning around to face Zor and Dana, the Masters' eyes glowing, and hands going claw-like as they intone, in Demonic-Pact-voices: "TOO LATE, ZOR! WE NO LONGER NEED THE PROOCULTURE FOR POWER AND LIFE ETERNAL!", is just ####ing with peoples' minds.

[taalismn]

How deviant your proposals are. I was more or less thinking along the lines of the Cosmic-Forge bringing them back intact with Cosmo-Knight style to it. Only the good characters who previously died. Bridge Bunnies coming back as female Cosmo-Knights, oh yeah.

Don't forget Haunted Mecha, either. 'Ghosts in the Machines' indeed. Or, some of the Bridge Bunnies can discover they're werebeasts(by blood)....WereDRAGON, maybe...or MUTANT SUPERHEROINES*....nothing short of magic, silver, or direct contact with a nuclear weapon's going to kill them...
Of course, they only figure this one out slowly after they've pulled themselves out of Lake Macross after a few days...

*(My 'Mutantech' setting might still be around on these forums; it has Protoculture as a powerful mutagen)

[Sgt Anjay]

*(My 'Mutantech' setting might still be around on these forums; it has Protoculture as a powerful mutagen)

Now that you mention it, protoculture is used as a mutagen by the factions that use it in Robotech. The Robotech Masters created the Zentraedi and made themselves into Triumvirates, while the Invid go hog wild changing this into that (That dinosaur? Its an Invid. That croc? Its an Invid. That plant? Its an Invid. That human? She's an Invid...)

[taalismn]

PLus there's the possibility of truly munchy Full-size Zentraedi Full Conversion Cyborgs..but to keep thos PPE-related, use the bionics applied to the Daemonix from Seige on Tolkeen(you might want to incorporate full-scale TW vehicular weapons and a TW generator or two into the systems to match the Zentraedi scale).

[taalismn]

[How deviant your proposals are. I was more or less thinking along the lines of the Cosmic-Forge bringing them back intact with Cosmo-Knight style to it. Only the good characters who previously died. Bridge Bunnies coming back as female Cosmo-Knights, oh yeah.

"Sammie Porter."
"I'm dead, aren't I?"
"No, only released."
"Huh...? What do you mean? I'm dead and this is the afterlife, right?"
"No, this is your TRUE existence."
"Okay....you mean that life is very a side show for..."
"No. It is meant that you were never truly human."
"Wha---?!"
"Lydia Porter was barren. She could not have any children."
"My mom----?! Wait, that's impossible!"
"Human doctors knew she was barren. She learned she was barren. She wanted desperately to have children."
"...but..how?!"
"Your 'Grandmother', Anna Petroskvi, was an Old Believer. She knew of her daughter's desire to have a child. She took a chance on the Old Arts and asked the Powers Beyond to grant her daughter a child."
"Granma...?!"
"The Powers could not reverse sterility, but they could spawn off a part of their Elemental essence, and Anna Petroskvi knew a Great Spell that could bind that essence into a human form, so it could be born into the World of Men."
"...that's insane!!!"
"You, Sammie Porter, are of the Elemental Plane of Air, bound in human form to fulfill a granted wish. Your...death...as you perceive it, merely broke the human shell into which you were bound and has allowed you to return to your true nature."
"...?!...What does THAT mean?!"
"You stand at a crossroads, Sammie Porter, with a decision to make. Do you embrace that which you were and return to Realm of Elements to become again a part of them, assimilated into their group consciousness...or do you instead embrace what you know now to be a lie, and return to being small, with only your own thoughts, as a -human-?"
"Oh my...Wait! Who are you and why are you telling me this?! JUST WHO THE HELL ARE YOU?!"
"One Who Stands Perpetually Between the States of Existence. One Who Sees All But But Cannot Touch All, save for these rare Moments between the Realms. I am both Guide and Temptor, Advisor and Dissembler, Teller of Truths and Breaker of Certainties. And I shall stand Witness to your Decision, Sammie Porter. Choose Well."

[drewkitty ~..~]

*wonders how the bloopers reels/crossover posts got here*

[taalismn]

SDF-1
Super D imensional Fortress

It ain't just refering to its size...

[Colonel Wolfe]

SDF-1
Super D imensional Fortress

It ain't just refering to its size...

from reading the Robotech Graphic novel.... the Dimentsional was in there because the SDF-1 was larger on the inside than it should have been. thus they could fit a Stadium in it....

[taalismn]

SDF-1
Super D imensional Fortress

It ain't just refering to its size...

from reading the Robotech Graphic novel.... the Dimentsional was in there because the SDF-1 was larger on the inside than it should have been. thus they could fit a Stadium in it....

I remember that, and thinking: "It's a TARDIS, damn it! Zor's a Time Lord!"

[taalismn]

Foolish mortal, now that the Legion of Comedy and the Sisterhood of the Unraveling Pants now know your mortal fear, there can be no mercy!
"FOR THE LAFFS!!!!!"

And to keep it Zentraedi PPE-oriented:

Be afraid, be very afraid: Full-size Zentraedi Ludicrious Mage(obviously insane, raised on micronian sitcom transmissions, and a dead shot with a giant pie).

Your mecha patrol's trapped aboard a derelict Zentraedi ship, alone in the dark, cut off from reinforcement...alone...with him.
Oh, and the Admirals Hunter will be coming aboard your mothership in about twelve hours and your commander expects everybody to be spic-nad-span shining clean and upright.
Don't mess up.
Okay....whoever heard of 'indelible whitewash'?
Because that's what it sez on that discarded Zentraedi-sized supply can on the floor over there.

[taalismn]

Just imagine how effective a Zentraedi Nega-Psychic and a Psi-Nullifier can be. Oh the possibilities.

Only if the opposing team is heavy on psionics and magic....otherwise, they're standing there staring at the grimacing psychics, and going

[taalismn]

Oh my, I just remembered that scene from the movie, "Dude, Where's My Car?"

Mage: Casts an Invisibility spell to hide the car in plain sight
Psychic: Uses BioManipulation to blind you so you can't see your car, or else uses telepathic mind control; "Dude, this is not your car."
Full-Size Zentraedi: Equal squashes your car flat and kicks it into the dumpster, or else picks it up and puts on a nearby rooftop, out of sight.

[slade the sniper]

So anyway, I was bored...

Spoiler:

Location - TOG, Ultima Segmentum
Imperial Blackship LV456099 Imperial Shadow Adepta Psykana request for assistance from Zentran Fleet Solingen, ambushed
Response Code - 5568
Dispatched a Quiltra Queleual troop transport Mortant Reaper in order to assist the Imperial Inquistion in supressing possible psyker escape attempt...
No response Imperial Shadow
No response Mortant Reaper
Ships assumed lost, cause unknown

Your Servant,
Fleet Admiral Aven Tai

********

What if....

A psionic prison ship (if you've read up on The Imperium of Man from TOG) filled with alien psykers...like some Perytonians, some Vulcans (or call them Eldar Farseers), Betazoids, normal human psykers (like psi-stalkers, mind melters and bursters...) crashed...then a zentraedi force arrives but they are also ambushed (take your pick of who it could be)...

Ship full of full sized and micronized zentraedi and a lot of psykers...

fast forward about 4 or 5 thousand years

assuming interbreeding is possible...and it certainly seems like zentraedi aren't the most discerning about things like that (about four hours of exposure to a female makes them insane...apparently).

And, yeah, I made that race...talk about a thorn in the side...the interesting thing is that the population ended up being matriarchial (due to lack of females, and those there were were all psionic, where as only about 10% of the available male population was when you count in the Zentraedi...and most Zents are a bit stupid when it comes to gender interaction...) with a lot of genetic drift (odd colors due to perytonian and zent influence)...which of course led to a tribe based society and very ritualized conflicts (thanks Vulcans, er...Eldar...)

-STS