Protoculture on Rifts Earth

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Re: Protoculture on Rifts Earth

Unread post by taalismn »

freindlygoblin wrote:I'm not asking for anything beyond what's allowed under the forum rules (though looking back at it, I can see how you might think otherwise when I asked for a quote. Sorry about that).

Forum Rules wrote:6. Conversions
Posting the conversion (adaptation) of non-Palladium intellectual property to the Palladium Books game system will not be tolerated. Sorry. And in the same way,
Palladium property may not be converted to other game systems. For a longer explanation of this policy, read on.

7. Palladium Books Copyrighted Material
No part of Palladium's publications/books may be reproduced, in part or whole, in any form or by any means, without permission from the publisher, except for brief quotes for use in reviews. This means you may not ask to have rules posted or stats posted just because you don't own the book. If you want that info buy the book. You can post the rule from a book in answer to a question, but please be brief or paraphrase the rule.


Please ignore the earlier quote request. I'm not asking for conversions to or from non-Palladium game systems, and I'm not asking anyone to give me rules from books I don't own. I'm just asking if anyone has seen a rule for this issue, and if they can tell me what book and page number. I just want to know if there are any canon rules covering it.


The ORIGINAL edition Palladium Conversions Book(long out of print) had some notes in this regard...If you can hunt up an old copy of it in the used books markets, that is. This was when Palladium had the FIRST licensing, and apparently the HG copyrighting wasn't as stringent.
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"Trouble rather the Tiger in his Lair,
Than the Sage among his Books,
For all the Empires and Kingdoms,
The Armies and Works that you hold Dear,
Are to him but the Playthings of the Moment,
To be turned over with the Flick of a Finger,
And the Turning of a Page"

--------Rudyard Kipling
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Re: Protoculture on Rifts Earth

Unread post by FreelancerMar »

The Rules covering the effects on Humans would be in the OLD Robotech RPG Book 5 Invid Invasion.

As for the rest you will probably have to wing it.
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Re: Protoculture on Rifts Earth

Unread post by keir451 »

I checked my books and didn't find any references to "PPE value" of protoculture only that it will not grow within 100 miles of a ley line (and presumably a nexus as well). My assumption would be that it is "allergic" (best term I can think of) to magic in a way.
You'll basically have to wing it from this point on.
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Re: Protoculture on Rifts Earth

Unread post by MikelAmroni »

My assumption was more one of saturation. The flower of life is a quasi magical plant with mystical properties. I personally think it generates PPE (or perhaps ISP?, or even more exotic types of energy...Bio-E anyone? :D ), though that is my own theory, and I have no basis for it. Because of that, it cannot thrive in a place where it has no room to grow, in terms of energy. It cannot create energy, and therefore cannot grow.

Also, it should be noted that in South America 1 (I don't know the exact page) it is mentioned that the existence of Memory Trees in Florida and the Caribbean is a primary reason there are no Millennium Trees in North or South America, competing life forms and all. This could be (if you were to use all three in the same campaign) a way to explain where and why the Flower of Life can grow. Of course if they produce PPE, then you could even have your own "Valley of the Lotus Eaters" cult of Psi-Stalkers...hee hee!

But pretty much the old Book 5 Invid and a bit on the subject in the Old Conversion Book (which I happen to have two or three copies of, but not the new one - go fig) and the old REF Field Manual is all you're ever going to see in any semi-official manner.
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Re: Protoculture on Rifts Earth

Unread post by ESalter »

freindlygoblin wrote:Also, I think I remember protoculture having negative effects on humans, but I can't remember where the stats for that are listed. Could someone please direct me? Thanks. :-D


This, perhaps?
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Re: Protoculture on Rifts Earth

Unread post by MikelAmroni »

He probably means the entries in the old Robotech Field Guide, as well as the info in old Book 5: Invid Invasion. If I remember right there were also some variant flowers in the Return of the Masters adventure, and I know for a fact there were some variants in Zentraedi Breakout.

For the most part it induced hallucinations and temporary to permanent insanity if you were caught in a field of them at the wrong time, etc. But I haven't actually bothered to look it up yet :)
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Re: Protoculture on Rifts Earth

Unread post by FreelancerMar »

If one goes with onscreen Information, The Flowers spores definately cause an alergic Reaction. I cannot remember the ep numbers but I do remember some scenes.

The southern Cross episodes there the spores are afloat which causes sneezing fits to the SCA personel entering the Mounds and remains of the SDF-1.

Then there is the new gen EP titles sandstorm where rand has his Funkey Dream because he was laying in a field of the FoL.
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Re: Protoculture on Rifts Earth

Unread post by taalismn »

FreelancerMar wrote:If one goes with onscreen Information, The Flowers spores definately cause an alergic Reaction. I cannot remember the ep numbers but I do remember some scenes.

The southern Cross episodes there the spores are afloat which causes sneezing fits to the SCA personel entering the Mounds and remains of the SDF-1.

Then there is the new gen EP titles sandstorm where rand has his Funkey Dream because he was laying in a field of the FoL.


"Let your doctor know of any allergies or allergic reactions to Flower of Life before taking this product...Sneezing, watering of the eyes, trouble breathing or swallowing, itchy throat, change of hair or eye color, hallucinatory visions, trailing hordes of Invid, convulsive exploding, and spontaneous genetic mutation may result. Contact a physician and/or the nearest UEEF contingent IMMEDIATELY if you manifest one or more of these symptoms."
-------------
"Trouble rather the Tiger in his Lair,
Than the Sage among his Books,
For all the Empires and Kingdoms,
The Armies and Works that you hold Dear,
Are to him but the Playthings of the Moment,
To be turned over with the Flick of a Finger,
And the Turning of a Page"

--------Rudyard Kipling
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Re: Protoculture on Rifts Earth

Unread post by Alpha 11 »

taalismn wrote:
FreelancerMar wrote:If one goes with onscreen Information, The Flowers spores definately cause an alergic Reaction. I cannot remember the ep numbers but I do remember some scenes.

The southern Cross episodes there the spores are afloat which causes sneezing fits to the SCA personel entering the Mounds and remains of the SDF-1.

Then there is the new gen EP titles sandstorm where rand has his Funkey Dream because he was laying in a field of the FoL.


"Let your doctor know of any allergies or allergic reactions to Flower of Life before taking this product...Sneezing, watering of the eyes, trouble breathing or swallowing, itchy throat, change of hair or eye color, hallucinatory visions, trailing hordes of Invid, convulsive exploding, and spontaneous genetic mutation may result. Contact a physician and/or the nearest UEEF contingent IMMEDIATELY if you manifest one or more of these symptoms."



:lol: :lol:
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Re: Protoculture on Rifts Earth

Unread post by Devjannz »

My theory on why the Flower of Life cannot grow near Ley Lines was that the flower feeds on the residual PPE around it and that the reason that they cannot grow close to the Ley Lines of Rifts Earth is that there is too much PPE and it is like overwatering to them.
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Re: Protoculture on Rifts Earth

Unread post by taalismn »

Devjannz wrote:My theory on why the Flower of Life cannot grow near Ley Lines was that the flower feeds on the residual PPE around it and that the reason that they cannot grow close to the Ley Lines of Rifts Earth is that there is too much PPE and it is like overwatering to them.



Or over-fertilizing...Too MUCH nourishment, for instance, in sea water, leads to algal blooms('red tide')...GMs running with this analogy might want to have the Flower of Life spawn, under high PPE conditions, a mutant akin to 'Invid Kudzu'; explosive growth, but utterly useless for producing Protoculture(or anything else)...in fact, the stuff is poisonous to consume and strips soil of nutrients for other crops/vegetation.
-------------
"Trouble rather the Tiger in his Lair,
Than the Sage among his Books,
For all the Empires and Kingdoms,
The Armies and Works that you hold Dear,
Are to him but the Playthings of the Moment,
To be turned over with the Flick of a Finger,
And the Turning of a Page"

--------Rudyard Kipling
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Re: Protoculture on Rifts Earth

Unread post by Alpha 11 »

taalismn wrote:
Devjannz wrote:My theory on why the Flower of Life cannot grow near Ley Lines was that the flower feeds on the residual PPE around it and that the reason that they cannot grow close to the Ley Lines of Rifts Earth is that there is too much PPE and it is like overwatering to them.



Or over-fertilizing...Too MUCH nourishment, for instance, in sea water, leads to algal blooms('red tide')...GMs running with this analogy might want to have the Flower of Life spawn, under high PPE conditions, a mutant akin to 'Invid Kudzu'; explosive growth, but utterly useless for producing Protoculture(or anything else)...in fact, the stuff is poisonous to consume and strips soil of nutrients for other crops/vegetation.


Interesting thoughts on this.
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Re: Protoculture on Rifts Earth

Unread post by taalismn »

An evil GM might allow for 'Invid Kudzu' to be used to cook up a botanical poison that does special damage to magic-users and super-natural critters by disrupting their PPE in some way....
-------------
"Trouble rather the Tiger in his Lair,
Than the Sage among his Books,
For all the Empires and Kingdoms,
The Armies and Works that you hold Dear,
Are to him but the Playthings of the Moment,
To be turned over with the Flick of a Finger,
And the Turning of a Page"

--------Rudyard Kipling
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Re: Protoculture on Rifts Earth

Unread post by Elthbert »

freindlygoblin wrote:Thanks everybody :D . That helps a lot. I've got Invid invasion and the REF Field Guide, so I'll check those for the effects of it, and I'll wing it with Rifts properties of protoculture. I thought I remembered something addressing it, but looking back at it now, I think I was just remembering that section of the first conversion book discussing where it can grow on Rifts earth.



Well as the flower of life is obviously magical in nature I have always had protoculture powered energy weapons act as magical weapons on Rifts Earth, while in Rifts this is ussually irrealivent it is not always so, and had very important effects in a long runnning campaign I had years ago.
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Re: Protoculture on Rifts Earth

Unread post by keir451 »

Elthbert wrote:
freindlygoblin wrote:Thanks everybody :D . That helps a lot. I've got Invid invasion and the REF Field Guide, so I'll check those for the effects of it, and I'll wing it with Rifts properties of protoculture. I thought I remembered something addressing it, but looking back at it now, I think I was just remembering that section of the first conversion book discussing where it can grow on Rifts earth.



Well as the flower of life is obviously magical in nature I have always had protoculture powered energy weapons act as magical weapons on Rifts Earth, while in Rifts this is ussually irrealivent it is not always so, and had very important effects in a long runnning campaign I had years ago.


@Elthbert
Out of curiosity, how do you see it as "obvious" that the Flower of Life is magical in nature? Not arguing, genuinely interested.
Personally I consider it to be alchemical in nature, as the books imply that the Regis is alchemically altering things and doing "forced" evolution instead of what Rifts considers "Magic", maybe even a form of psionic bio-manipulation.
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Re: Protoculture on Rifts Earth

Unread post by Tiree »

It's always been considered 'mystical' in nature, but I don't see it as truly 'Magical' myself

It's like technology that was developed now, and give it to a cave man, they will see it as magical. I mean, heck a BIC lighter is a magical firestarter!
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Re: Protoculture on Rifts Earth

Unread post by keir451 »

Tiree wrote:It's always been considered 'mystical' in nature, but I don't see it as truly 'Magical' myself

It's like technology that was developed now, and give it to a cave man, they will see it as magical. I mean, heck a BIC lighter is a magical firestarter!

:lol: "Any sufficiently advanced technology can seem as magic to a less advanced culture." or some such statement.
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Re: Protoculture on Rifts Earth

Unread post by taalismn »

keir451 wrote:
Tiree wrote:It's always been considered 'mystical' in nature, but I don't see it as truly 'Magical' myself

It's like technology that was developed now, and give it to a cave man, they will see it as magical. I mean, heck a BIC lighter is a magical firestarter!

:lol: "Any sufficiently advanced technology can seem as magic to a less advanced culture." or some such statement.


"Any sufficiently advanced/dumbed-down magic can be indistinguishable from technology."
(though when's the last time Gandolf called up a Blue Aura of Death?)
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"Trouble rather the Tiger in his Lair,
Than the Sage among his Books,
For all the Empires and Kingdoms,
The Armies and Works that you hold Dear,
Are to him but the Playthings of the Moment,
To be turned over with the Flick of a Finger,
And the Turning of a Page"

--------Rudyard Kipling
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Re: Protoculture on Rifts Earth

Unread post by Elthbert »

keir451 wrote:
Elthbert wrote:
freindlygoblin wrote:Thanks everybody :D . That helps a lot. I've got Invid invasion and the REF Field Guide, so I'll check those for the effects of it, and I'll wing it with Rifts properties of protoculture. I thought I remembered something addressing it, but looking back at it now, I think I was just remembering that section of the first conversion book discussing where it can grow on Rifts earth.



Well as the flower of life is obviously magical in nature I have always had protoculture powered energy weapons act as magical weapons on Rifts Earth, while in Rifts this is ussually irrealivent it is not always so, and had very important effects in a long runnning campaign I had years ago.


@Elthbert
Out of curiosity, how do you see it as "obvious" that the Flower of Life is magical in nature? Not arguing, genuinely interested.
Personally I consider it to be alchemical in nature, as the books imply that the Regis is alchemically altering things and doing "forced" evolution instead of what Rifts considers "Magic", maybe even a form of psionic bio-manipulation.


Well lets see, it allows mystical transfers of intelegence from one cloned body to another( Robotech masters), it aids in cloning in general, it is the supreme "green"power source giving the power of fusion but also , granting a mystical link between a living humanoid and an machine ( I know they seem to be backing off of this, but it is kind of essential for the traditional robotech to make sense ). It gives non psionic people precognative abilities, it allows the invide to creat mecha without raw materials and evolve or devolve creatures however they wish. It also allows for alchemical ( palladiums word) bionics, in palladium alchemist make magic items not simple products of chemistry. In addition the fact that it will not grow within 100 miles of a ley line tells us it is absolutely magical in some way, or else why whould it be effected by magical energy.

Thats what I can think of off the top of my head.
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Re: Protoculture on Rifts Earth

Unread post by keir451 »

Elthbert wrote:
keir451 wrote:
Elthbert wrote:
freindlygoblin wrote:Thanks everybody :D . That helps a lot. I've got Invid invasion and the REF Field Guide, so I'll check those for the effects of it, and I'll wing it with Rifts properties of protoculture. I thought I remembered something addressing it, but looking back at it now, I think I was just remembering that section of the first conversion book discussing where it can grow on Rifts earth.



Well as the flower of life is obviously magical in nature I have always had protoculture powered energy weapons act as magical weapons on Rifts Earth, while in Rifts this is ussually irrealivent it is not always so, and had very important effects in a long runnning campaign I had years ago.


@Elthbert
Out of curiosity, how do you see it as "obvious" that the Flower of Life is magical in nature? Not arguing, genuinely interested.
Personally I consider it to be alchemical in nature, as the books imply that the Regis is alchemically altering things and doing "forced" evolution instead of what Rifts considers "Magic", maybe even a form of psionic bio-manipulation.


Well lets see, it allows mystical transfers of intelegence from one cloned body to another( Robotech masters), it aids in cloning in general, it is the supreme "green"power source giving the power of fusion but also , granting a mystical link between a living humanoid and an machine ( I know they seem to be backing off of this, but it is kind of essential for the traditional robotech to make sense ). It gives non psionic people precognative abilities, it allows the invide to creat mecha without raw materials and evolve or devolve creatures however they wish. It also allows for alchemical ( palladiums word) bionics, in palladium alchemist make magic items not simple products of chemistry. In addition the fact that it will not grow within 100 miles of a ley line tells us it is absolutely magical in some way, or else why whould it be effected by magical energy.

Thats what I can think of off the top of my head.


Some of the "mysticism" behind PC is the weird tech that came from it. I could probably find some real world tech that could do some of the things that the RT mecha do. The Palladium Books concept of the Regis "alchemically" altering things was what I always thought of, not magic. Yet if the plant is "magical" in nature then it would grow better closer to a ley line or Nexus, instead of not growing within 100 miles of it.
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Re: Protoculture on Rifts Earth

Unread post by Elthbert »

keir451 wrote:
Elthbert wrote:
keir451 wrote:
Elthbert wrote:
freindlygoblin wrote:Thanks everybody :D . That helps a lot. I've got Invid invasion and the REF Field Guide, so I'll check those for the effects of it, and I'll wing it with Rifts properties of protoculture. I thought I remembered something addressing it, but looking back at it now, I think I was just remembering that section of the first conversion book discussing where it can grow on Rifts earth.



Well as the flower of life is obviously magical in nature I have always had protoculture powered energy weapons act as magical weapons on Rifts Earth, while in Rifts this is ussually irrealivent it is not always so, and had very important effects in a long runnning campaign I had years ago.


@Elthbert
Out of curiosity, how do you see it as "obvious" that the Flower of Life is magical in nature? Not arguing, genuinely interested.
Personally I consider it to be alchemical in nature, as the books imply that the Regis is alchemically altering things and doing "forced" evolution instead of what Rifts considers "Magic", maybe even a form of psionic bio-manipulation.


Well lets see, it allows mystical transfers of intelegence from one cloned body to another( Robotech masters), it aids in cloning in general, it is the supreme "green"power source giving the power of fusion but also , granting a mystical link between a living humanoid and an machine ( I know they seem to be backing off of this, but it is kind of essential for the traditional robotech to make sense ). It gives non psionic people precognative abilities, it allows the invide to creat mecha without raw materials and evolve or devolve creatures however they wish. It also allows for alchemical ( palladiums word) bionics, in palladium alchemist make magic items not simple products of chemistry. In addition the fact that it will not grow within 100 miles of a ley line tells us it is absolutely magical in some way, or else why whould it be effected by magical energy.

Thats what I can think of off the top of my head.


Some of the "mysticism" behind PC is the weird tech that came from it. I could probably find some real world tech that could do some of the things that the RT mecha do. The Palladium Books concept of the Regis "alchemically" altering things was what I always thought of, not magic. Yet if the plant is "magical" in nature then it would grow better closer to a ley line or Nexus, instead of not growing within 100 miles of it.



In Palladium "alchemically" is magically. Just becuase something is magical in nature does not mean that it would do better on a ley line. perhaps the raw magic in a ley line is too much for it. Real plants can be over watered, over fertilized etc. Ley ines may just over magic the magic plant.
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Re: Protoculture on Rifts Earth

Unread post by Tiree »

Elthbert wrote:Well lets see, it allows mystical transfers of intelegence from one cloned body to another( Robotech masters), it aids in cloning in general, it is the supreme "green"power source giving the power of fusion but also , granting a mystical link between a living humanoid and an machine ( I know they seem to be backing off of this, but it is kind of essential for the traditional robotech to make sense ). It gives non psionic people precognative abilities, it allows the invide to creat mecha without raw materials and evolve or devolve creatures however they wish. It also allows for alchemical ( palladiums word) bionics, in palladium alchemist make magic items not simple products of chemistry. In addition the fact that it will not grow within 100 miles of a ley line tells us it is absolutely magical in some way, or else why whould it be effected by magical energy.

Thats what I can think of off the top of my head.


Let's break this down:
1. allows mystical transfers of intelligence from one cloned body to another( Robotech masters): This can't be proven, it could be pure technology. Remember that the Zentraedi were Cloned as adults with full memories. We don't understand the technology ends up making it 'mystical'. But I see no reason that it would truly be magical.
2. granting a mystical link between a living humanoid and an machine ( I know they seem to be backing off of this, but it is kind of essential for the traditional robotech to make sense ): Never shown in the series, except possibly in the case of the Invid. But their mecha were more like an extension of who they are.
3. It gives non psionic people precognative abilities: Or instead just gives them one wicked high that alters their perceptions and dreams... oh wait LSD does that too. In the TV Series it alludes, but does not spell out that they are pre-cog, or even actually seeing something real
4. it allows the invid to create mecha without raw materials and evolve or devolve creatures however they wish: I will be the first to say that I don't understand how the Regis is able to do things. But she is able to transform matter into energy and back. Thus she is able to manipulate matter. Seems like Magic, but who knows.
5. It also allows for alchemical ( palladiums word) bionics: If you remember your episode with Dusty, those bionics were grafted onto his body without anesthesia. He was also in some sort of 'chemical bath'. Alchemy/Medicine can't say for sure. This is the Invid we are talking about an alien race that has no resemblance to Human and their technology. But I would push this is closer to Medicine than 'Magic'
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Re: Protoculture on Rifts Earth

Unread post by keir451 »

Tiree wrote:
Elthbert wrote:Well lets see, it allows mystical transfers of intelegence from one cloned body to another( Robotech masters), it aids in cloning in general, it is the supreme "green"power source giving the power of fusion but also , granting a mystical link between a living humanoid and an machine ( I know they seem to be backing off of this, but it is kind of essential for the traditional robotech to make sense ). It gives non psionic people precognative abilities, it allows the invide to creat mecha without raw materials and evolve or devolve creatures however they wish. It also allows for alchemical ( palladiums word) bionics, in palladium alchemist make magic items not simple products of chemistry. In addition the fact that it will not grow within 100 miles of a ley line tells us it is absolutely magical in some way, or else why whould it be effected by magical energy.

Thats what I can think of off the top of my head.


Let's break this down:
1. allows mystical transfers of intelligence from one cloned body to another( Robotech masters): This can't be proven, it could be pure technology. Remember that the Zentraedi were Cloned as adults with full memories. We don't understand the technology ends up making it 'mystical'. But I see no reason that it would truly be magical.
2. granting a mystical link between a living humanoid and an machine ( I know they seem to be backing off of this, but it is kind of essential for the traditional robotech to make sense ): Never shown in the series, except possibly in the case of the Invid. But their mecha were more like an extension of who they are.
3. It gives non psionic people precognative abilities: Or instead just gives them one wicked high that alters their perceptions and dreams... oh wait LSD does that too. In the TV Series it alludes, but does not spell out that they are pre-cog, or even actually seeing something real
4. it allows the invid to create mecha without raw materials and evolve or devolve creatures however they wish: I will be the first to say that I don't understand how the Regis is able to do things. But she is able to transform matter into energy and back. Thus she is able to manipulate matter. Seems like Magic, but who knows.
5. It also allows for alchemical ( palladiums word) bionics: If you remember your episode with Dusty, those bionics were grafted onto his body without anesthesia. He was also in some sort of 'chemical bath'. Alchemy/Medicine can't say for sure. This is the Invid we are talking about an alien race that has no resemblance to Human and their technology. But I would push this is closer to Medicine than 'Magic'

Heck in Star Trek they routinely dissasembled people at the molecular level and reassembled them some where else w/ their memories and personalities intact thru "transporter tech". I still weigh in on the Flower of Life being alchemical, not magical.
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Re: Protoculture on Rifts Earth

Unread post by taalismn »

And it makes a mean cup of tea, too!
Try it iced, on a hot day...with melange wafers and Forbidden Fruit slices.
-------------
"Trouble rather the Tiger in his Lair,
Than the Sage among his Books,
For all the Empires and Kingdoms,
The Armies and Works that you hold Dear,
Are to him but the Playthings of the Moment,
To be turned over with the Flick of a Finger,
And the Turning of a Page"

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Re: Protoculture on Rifts Earth

Unread post by Beatmeclever »

I like to bake it into brownies. :eek:
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Re: Protoculture on Rifts Earth

Unread post by drewkitty ~..~ »

Tiree wrote:Let's break this down:
1. allows mystical transfers of intelligence from one cloned body to another( Robotech masters): This can't be proven, it could be pure technology. Remember that the Zentraedi were Cloned as adults with full memories. We don't understand the technology ends up making it 'mystical'. But I see no reason that it would truly be magical.

This, the zentradi aspect, is explained in the Ghost Ship book. A computer that is charge of clone production in the protoculture tank picks, randomlyish, what sort of personality the new clone has. This is also touched on in Breetai's story bit in the RT novels. In the part about when KH spends the night in B's quarters.
2. granting a mystical link between a living humanoid and an machine ( I know they seem to be backing off of this, but it is kind of essential for the traditional robotech to make sense ): Never shown in the series, except possibly in the case of the Invid. But their mecha were more like an extension of who they are.

This was only in the books that PC makes the link possible. Or to say, short cutted the process of developing one.
The pilot to mecha link was not a part of the SDF-Macross' tech base. The brain to mecha link development was a part of the story-line in Macross Plus. So it might be possible that in the Macross Frontier series that the mecha to pilot link might of been fully developed.
3. It gives non psionic people precognitive abilities: Or instead just gives them one wicked high that alters their perceptions and dreams... oh wait LSD does that too. In the TV Series it alludes, but does not spell out that they are pre-cog, or even actually seeing something real

no comments about this.
4. it allows the invid to create mecha without raw materials and developing a new & better form or changing them into mutated creatures however they wish: I will be the first to say that I don't understand how the Regis is able to do things. But she is able to transform matter into energy and back. Thus she is able to manipulate matter. Seems like Magic, but who knows.
(edited the above to get rid of the misused words)
The raw materials were there it was just a matter of transmuting them. This through powerful application of Psi powers. However, once the Regis gets done with prototyping such changes. I think the Invid Brains could grow then necessary shells to put the transformed pilots into. The brains might be able to mutate lower level invid into pilots for the new shells also once the Regis figured out what gene patters she wanted to use in the new invid type.

5. It also allows for alchemical ( palladiums word) bionics: If you remember your episode with Dusty, those bionics were grafted onto his body without anesthesia. He was also in some sort of 'chemical bath'. Alchemy/Medicine can't say for sure. This is the Invid we are talking about an alien race that has no resemblance to Human and their technology. But I would push this is closer to Medicine than 'Magic'

The bath you speak of might of been something like a Bac Tank in SW. Which I'm Assuming is some sort of sterilization bath to keep the subject from getting an infection. Or it might be a med-nanite tank the repairs bodies.
Part of the reasons for not doping the subject of bionic augmentation would have to be awake and responsive while connecting the bionics. Like how it is in brain surgery.
taalismn wrote:And it makes a mean cup of tea, too!
Try it iced, on a hot day...with melange wafers and Forbidden Fruit slices.

And a mug of Spice Beer.
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Re: Protoculture on Rifts Earth

Unread post by Elthbert »

Tiree wrote:
Let's break this down:
1. allows mystical transfers of intelligence from one cloned body to another( Robotech masters): This can't be proven, it could be pure technology. Remember that the Zentraedi were Cloned as adults with full memories. We don't understand the technology ends up making it 'mystical'. But I see no reason that it would truly be magical.

Except I am not talking about the Zentradi, who were cloned as adults and then had memories implanted into them. I am talking about the Robotech Masters whos person was switched from one cloned body to another. Not there memories, but them, themselves. THis is more akin to soul transferance than anything else, and that is definanty magical

2. granting a mystical link between a living humanoid and an machine ( I know they seem to be backing off of this, but it is kind of essential for the traditional robotech to make sense ): Never shown in the series, except possibly in the case of the Invid. But their mecha were more like an extension of who they are. Well I would disagree , I would argue it is show in the series all the time. That is why people could do what they could do in there mecha. Regardless for the first 20 years of the game it was a simple explicitly stated fact.
3. It gives non psionic people precognative abilities: Or instead just gives them one wicked high that alters their perceptions and dreams... oh wait LSD does that too. In the TV Series it alludes, but does not spell out that they are pre-cog, or even actually seeing something real
but the series implys that it is, and the RPG defined that they were. Simple as that.
4. it allows the invid to create mecha without raw materials and evolve or devolve creatures however they wish: I will be the first to say that I don't understand how the Regis is able to do things. But she is able to transform matter into energy and back. Thus she is able to manipulate matter. Seems like Magic, but who knows.

Well she can do it becuase of her intiment relationship with protoculture. Same with the Regent.

5. It also allows for alchemical ( palladiums word) bionics: If you remember your episode with Dusty, those bionics were grafted onto his body without anesthesia. He was also in some sort of 'chemical bath'. Alchemy/Medicine can't say for sure. This is the Invid we are talking about an alien race that has no resemblance to Human and their technology. But I would push this is closer to Medicine than 'Magic'
I can say that in palladium alchemy is magic, and the books use the world Alchemy
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Re: Protoculture on Rifts Earth

Unread post by Elthbert »

keir451 wrote:
Tiree wrote:
Elthbert wrote:Well lets see, it allows mystical transfers of intelegence from one cloned body to another( Robotech masters), it aids in cloning in general, it is the supreme "green"power source giving the power of fusion but also , granting a mystical link between a living humanoid and an machine ( I know they seem to be backing off of this, but it is kind of essential for the traditional robotech to make sense ). It gives non psionic people precognative abilities, it allows the invide to creat mecha without raw materials and evolve or devolve creatures however they wish. It also allows for alchemical ( palladiums word) bionics, in palladium alchemist make magic items not simple products of chemistry. In addition the fact that it will not grow within 100 miles of a ley line tells us it is absolutely magical in some way, or else why whould it be effected by magical energy.

Thats what I can think of off the top of my head.


Let's break this down:
1. allows mystical transfers of intelligence from one cloned body to another( Robotech masters): This can't be proven, it could be pure technology. Remember that the Zentraedi were Cloned as adults with full memories. We don't understand the technology ends up making it 'mystical'. But I see no reason that it would truly be magical.
2. granting a mystical link between a living humanoid and an machine ( I know they seem to be backing off of this, but it is kind of essential for the traditional robotech to make sense ): Never shown in the series, except possibly in the case of the Invid. But their mecha were more like an extension of who they are.
3. It gives non psionic people precognative abilities: Or instead just gives them one wicked high that alters their perceptions and dreams... oh wait LSD does that too. In the TV Series it alludes, but does not spell out that they are pre-cog, or even actually seeing something real
4. it allows the invid to create mecha without raw materials and evolve or devolve creatures however they wish: I will be the first to say that I don't understand how the Regis is able to do things. But she is able to transform matter into energy and back. Thus she is able to manipulate matter. Seems like Magic, but who knows.
5. It also allows for alchemical ( palladiums word) bionics: If you remember your episode with Dusty, those bionics were grafted onto his body without anesthesia. He was also in some sort of 'chemical bath'. Alchemy/Medicine can't say for sure. This is the Invid we are talking about an alien race that has no resemblance to Human and their technology. But I would push this is closer to Medicine than 'Magic'

Heck in Star Trek they routinely dissasembled people at the molecular level and reassembled them some where else w/ their memories and personalities intact thru "transporter tech". I still weigh in on the Flower of Life being alchemical, not magical.


Star Trek has a quasi scientific explanation for it. But frankly, I would contend that the transporter kills its subject and then reforms a new one somewhere else.
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Re: Protoculture on Rifts Earth

Unread post by Elthbert »

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
Tiree wrote:
4. it allows the invid to create mecha without raw materials and developing a new & better form or changing them into mutated creatures however they wish: I will be the first to say that I don't understand how the Regis is able to do things. But she is able to transform matter into energy and back. Thus she is able to manipulate matter. Seems like Magic, but who knows.
(edited the above to get rid of the misused words)
The raw materials were there it was just a matter of transmuting them. This through powerful application of Psi powers. However, once the Regis gets done with prototyping such changes. I think the Invid Brains could grow then necessary shells to put the transformed pilots into. The brains might be able to mutate lower level invid into pilots for the new shells also once the Regis figured out what gene patters she wanted to use in the new invid type.
I didn't misuse anywords, i used the words the books use. If I remember correctly there is no requirment for raw aterials in either the Regis or Regent write up only a period of concentration. Making something out of nothing is definatly magical.
5. It also allows for alchemical ( palladiums word) bionics: If you remember your episode with Dusty, those bionics were grafted onto his body without anesthesia. He was also in some sort of 'chemical bath'. Alchemy/Medicine can't say for sure. This is the Invid we are talking about an alien race that has no resemblance to Human and their technology. But I would push this is closer to Medicine than 'Magic'

The bath you speak of might of been something like a Bac Tank in SW. Which I'm Assuming is some sort of sterilization bath to keep the subject from getting an infection. Or it might be a med-nanite tank the repairs bodies.
Part of the reasons for not doping the subject of bionic augmentation would have to be awake and responsive while connecting the bionics. Like how it is in brain surgery.

it doesn't matter, the game design calls them alchmical which again is a magical thing in palladium, unless it isn't alchemist who magic magical items.
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Re: Protoculture on Rifts Earth

Unread post by drewkitty ~..~ »

this "developing a new & better form or changing them into mutated creatures" is what was meant, and this is want was said "evolve or devolve creatures".

The term evolve and the letter grouping devolve, do not mean what was meant.
I'm sorry if the media has brainwashed everyone into thinking that 'evolved' means "to change into a better form."
And the letter grouping 'devolve' has no meaning.
So if you want to mean what you mean then use the right words.

As per the the novels, the letter grouping 'devolve' would to mean "to become more animalistic.'
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Re: Protoculture on Rifts Earth

Unread post by TiekoSora »

One could argue that the obvious intolerance to ley lines/nexus points indicates that the flower of life is not magical in nature, and thus protoculture is not a magical or mystical form of energy. Historically, anything not readily understood by man was "mystical" or "magic". Also, historically, alchemy was an attempt to alter one material into another not by using magic, but by known physical and chemical means. As the Invid have a symbiotic relationship with the flower of life they would undertand how to interact with it on a molecular level to alter their physical and mental forms. This would explain their "alchemy" and some of these secrets would likely have been revealed to Zor before his betrayal, and subverted for use by the Robotech Masters.

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Re: Protoculture on Rifts Earth

Unread post by Elthbert »

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:this "developing a new & better form or changing them into mutated creatures" is what was meant, and this is want was said "evolve or devolve creatures".

The term evolve and the letter grouping devolve, do not mean what was meant.
I'm sorry if the media has brainwashed everyone into thinking that 'evolved' means "to change into a better form."
And the letter grouping 'devolve' has no meaning.
So if you want to mean what you mean then use the right words.

As per the the novels, the letter grouping 'devolve' would to mean "to become more animalistic.'

To devolve means to degenerate over time, it also has other applicable meanings philisophically speaking.
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Re: Protoculture on Rifts Earth

Unread post by taalismn »

From Merriam-Webster's Collegiate Dictionary:

de-volve:
1a: to pass by transmission or succession. b: to fall or be passed as a responsibility of obligation.
2: To come by or as if by flowing down
3: to degenerate through a gradual change or evolution

:D
-------------
"Trouble rather the Tiger in his Lair,
Than the Sage among his Books,
For all the Empires and Kingdoms,
The Armies and Works that you hold Dear,
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To be turned over with the Flick of a Finger,
And the Turning of a Page"

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Re: Protoculture on Rifts Earth

Unread post by Elthbert »

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:this "developing a new & better form or changing them into mutated creatures" is what was meant, and this is want was said "evolve or devolve creatures".

The term evolve and the letter grouping devolve, do not mean what was meant.
I'm sorry if the media has brainwashed everyone into thinking that 'evolved' means "to change into a better form."
And the letter grouping 'devolve' has no meaning.
So if you want to mean what you mean then use the right words.

As per the the novels, the letter grouping 'devolve' would to mean "to become more animalistic.'



And just a note... devlove is an older word, has older origions than evolve. You should really check things before calling someone out.
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Re: Protoculture on Rifts Earth

Unread post by drewkitty ~..~ »

taalismn wrote:From Merriam-Webster's Collegiate Dictionary:

de-volve:
1a: to pass by transmission or succession. b: to fall or be passed as a responsibility of obligation.
2: To come by or as if by flowing down
3: to degenerate through a gradual change or evolution

:D

Elthbert wrote:

And just a note... devolve is an older word, has older origins than evolve. You should really check things before calling someone out.


And your post was redundant and needed to be spell checked Elthbert.
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Re: Protoculture on Rifts Earth

Unread post by taalismn »

So was mine...'De-volve' should simply be 'devolve'.
Mea culpa.
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Re: Protoculture on Rifts Earth

Unread post by Elthbert »

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
taalismn wrote:From Merriam-Webster's Collegiate Dictionary:

de-volve:
1a: to pass by transmission or succession. b: to fall or be passed as a responsibility of obligation.
2: To come by or as if by flowing down
3: to degenerate through a gradual change or evolution

:D

Elthbert wrote:

And just a note... devolve is an older word, has older origins than evolve. You should really check things before calling someone out.


And your post was redundant and needed to be spell checked Elthbert.


Criticism of spelling is the last refuge of the defeated. Standardized spelling is a fairly recent invention, and often a simple excuse for snobbery... regardless my use of the word was right, and the word entered English some 200 years before evolve did, we actually have a Middle English antecedent of the word devolve, but evolve came only in the 17th century.
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Re: Protoculture on Rifts Earth

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So, what do you think a Mystic Herbologist or Druid could do with Flower of Life?
-------------
"Trouble rather the Tiger in his Lair,
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For all the Empires and Kingdoms,
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Re: Protoculture on Rifts Earth

Unread post by MikelAmroni »

Depends really on whether it produces Bio-E, PPE, or ISP. If you have it as PPE, then they could make a very potent talisman like tea with it. One drink and you'll recharge your PPE as if you slept for 8 hours. It also erases fatigue and restores Hit Points as if you had a day's rest.
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Re: Protoculture on Rifts Earth

Unread post by taalismn »

Side effects: Your blood turns greenish, your eyes go red, and you may experience random SpaceFolding in your sleep.
-------------
"Trouble rather the Tiger in his Lair,
Than the Sage among his Books,
For all the Empires and Kingdoms,
The Armies and Works that you hold Dear,
Are to him but the Playthings of the Moment,
To be turned over with the Flick of a Finger,
And the Turning of a Page"

--------Rudyard Kipling
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Re: Protoculture on Rifts Earth

Unread post by dante144 »

So what is the verdict? How do you think protoculture would react in Rifts Earth? Protoculture power cells? How hard would it be to recharge them?
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Re: Protoculture on Rifts Earth

Unread post by drewkitty ~..~ »

dante144 wrote:So what is the verdict? How do you think protoculture would react in Rifts Earth? Protoculture power cells? How hard would it be to recharge them?


There are four options,
1 they blow up as soon as they get to rifts earth
2 they work normally till they run out of PC
3 the PC is gradually drained of 'energy' while on rifts earth.
4 the PC turns back into the IFoL, starting to grow, and breaking open the canisters.

#2 is the canon option from the RCB1. (I don't remember what the RCB1r says)
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Re: Protoculture on Rifts Earth

Unread post by keir451 »

freindlygoblin wrote:Can anyone point me to a book and page numbers for stats for protoculture uses on Rifts Earth? I've read the section of the old conversion book, page 34-46, so I know it can grow on Rifts Earth, but what I'm really interested in are it's properties for purposes of techno-wizardry, mystic-herbology, bio-wizardry, etc. Does it have PPE? If anyone knows of any rules for this laid out in a book, please let me know.

Also, I think I remember protoculture having negative effects on humans, but I can't remember where the stats for that are listed. Could someone please direct me? Thanks. :-D

The basic info re: Protoculture affecting humans is in the Invid Invasion RPG, as for PPE or Mystical uses, that has never been put forward by KS in ANY book that I know of (I have most of them) so I can only say "make it up as you go along".
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Re: Protoculture on Rifts Earth

Unread post by drewkitty ~..~ »

As for the PPE question, there have been suggestions that the plant lives off of PPE, thus it would make a wonderful spell component for magic stuff, and the reason for it not growing near LL is that the LL would "over water" the IFoL. There is a counter suggestion that the IFoL is an anti-PPE life form, thus, can not stand being close to the abundance of PPE in a LL.
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Re: Protoculture on Rifts Earth

Unread post by keir451 »

dante144 wrote:So what is the verdict? How do you think protoculture would react in Rifts Earth? Protoculture power cells? How hard would it be to recharge them?

Protoculture power cells cannot be recharged in Rifts Earth (as per CB1) you can only replace them w/Rifts class power plants and e-clips. The ONLY way around this (as per the rules) is to have the FoL be present on Rifts Earth and to have either the REF, Masters or Invid there as well to refine the Protoculture into the power cells you need. However, in the end, if YOU are the GM you can do as thou wilt.
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Re: Protoculture on Rifts Earth

Unread post by Daeglan »

If it were me I would make grow great near ley lines. Having lots of flower of life plants is not that useful. you need a protoculture matrix to turn the plant into protoculture. That is not that common. I think the SDF 3 has one. The SDF 1 and 2 had one.

You can't just stick the flower into your veritech or into the protoculture cannister.
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Re: Protoculture on Rifts Earth

Unread post by dante144 »

keir451 wrote:
dante144 wrote:So what is the verdict? How do you think protoculture would react in Rifts Earth? Protoculture power cells? How hard would it be to recharge them?

Protoculture power cells cannot be recharged in Rifts Earth (as per CB1) you can only replace them w/Rifts class power plants and e-clips. The ONLY way around this (as per the rules) is to have the FoL be present on Rifts Earth and to have either the REF, Masters or Invid there as well to refine the Protoculture into the power cells you need. However, in the end, if YOU are the GM you can do as thou wilt.


What is CB1 again?

Thanks for all the input guys!
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Re: Protoculture on Rifts Earth

Unread post by keir451 »

dante144 wrote:
keir451 wrote:
dante144 wrote:So what is the verdict? How do you think protoculture would react in Rifts Earth? Protoculture power cells? How hard would it be to recharge them?

Protoculture power cells cannot be recharged in Rifts Earth (as per CB1) you can only replace them w/Rifts class power plants and e-clips. The ONLY way around this (as per the rules) is to have the FoL be present on Rifts Earth and to have either the REF, Masters or Invid there as well to refine the Protoculture into the power cells you need. However, in the end, if YOU are the GM you can do as thou wilt.


What is CB1 again?

Thanks for all the input guys!

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Re: Protoculture on Rifts Earth

Unread post by dante144 »

wow, didn't know they mentioned Robotech in it.. I thought it was all PFRP conversions!
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Re: Protoculture on Rifts Earth

Unread post by Tiree »

dante144 wrote:wow, didn't know they mentioned Robotech in it.. I thought it was all PFRP conversions!

It's a conversion book for all PB Game lines at the time it was released. So it even has super powers.
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