Super strength and physical skills question

[PapaMambo]

I was just wondering what the consensus on having physical skills boosting the score for a persons PS attribute. On page 15 of HU2, it says,

`Many of the physical skills will provide the character with attribute bonuses. For example, wrestling offers a +2 to PS and PE, so if the player has already rolled a total of 16 for PS, he adds another 2 points for a total of 18, if his PE was 8, the +2 would raise it to 10. All physical skill bonuses are accumulative. A player can enhance and ajust the physical attributes of his character throught the careful selection of physical skills. `

And yet on page 293 (again HU2), under Supernatural Strength, it says,

`Add 30 + 2d6 points to the regular PS attribute roll. Note that physical skills do not add to supernatural PS, but certain super abilities may. `

Nowhere else in the book does it state this contradiction (not for Extraordinary PS nor for Superhuman PS).

So my question then is - what do the players do when they select their skills?? Do they just not add any bonus at all? Do they just add the bonuses that don`t affect the Supernatural Strength? And why doesn`t this rule apply to the other varying levels of strength?

I think that if there were one rule that holds this game back from allowing characters and GM`s to create any sort of character they truly desire (in the powerhouse category anyway), that this is probably the one that hurts the most..

Should I just house rule it and choose to ignore this rule? What do YOU do??

[Incriptus]

As always you're free to play as you see fit, but generally I just go with the language as is. Super Natural Strength is the only one that is . . . supernatural . . . enough that physical skills can't increase it.

You're HU characters aren't going to catch that mountain, you're not going to do a flying punch through a flying island, you're not going to punch a person to china.

[Al Blotto]

With Supernatural Strength, you really don't need all of that extra PS from your skill selections. Your punches are already being grouped for damage every 5 points and you're basically destroying most people that get in punching range. At the very lowest possible application of Supernatural Strength as a power, you've got a PS of 35 (Rolling 3 on your 3D6 PS rolls + 30 + rolling 2 on your 2D6). You are doing as much damage per restrained punch as a .32 caliber pistol and as much damage per full strength punch as a .41 Magnum! You're capable of carrying 5.25 tons (10,500 lbs) and lifting 8.75 tons (17,500 lbs). That's nothing to shake a stick at. You're carrying two cars at a time and lifting four at a time (not thinking about the whole 'how did you get those cars to stack without falling?' part)
The way I see it, Supernatural Strength is the point at which you're not finding weights that are heavy enough to help you exercise anymore, your reduced fatigue rate means your body is already at its muscular peak and you're not going to benefit from running, body building, general athletics or whatever else.
There's also a semblance of game balance to keep in mind. The people you're on a team with probably have a normal P.S. of 14-21. They're not gonna be capable of the feats you are with the limits in place. Just think about what would happen if they let Physical skills stack...

[PapaMambo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=6CI3Ntrcgfs#t=32

*cough*

Uh... in case it didn't link properly, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CI3Ntrcgfs, about 30 seconds in.


Mr. Incredible would like to have a word with you.

I love that movie so much - wish it never ended.. They just need to do a sequel (and not one of those crappy direct to video ones that Disney has been known to kill franchises with!)

[PapaMambo]

This is why in our group we choose our education/skills BEFORE the selection of super powers. It gives us the freedom to figure out what our characters were before they became superheroes, and it gives us the flexibility to, at times, select (instead of rolling) super abilities that are related to the overall concept of the character.

I know - the book says that you're supposed to roll abilities and then get skills. Bogus, says me. Not all mutants with SNPS are boxers. Not all experiments are military grade soldiers.

That's sort of where I come from. It's then a logical progression through life (and not just the book..) Roll attributes, pick education and skills, character background, then roll (or pick) from the Super Power categories..

I mean, even when you think of it, most of the heroes that we've come to love through the comics weren't BORN with their powers at full strength (a few exceptions, but this tends to be for the majority of characters anyways).

With the exception of someone like Supes, or Thor, or Hercules (Gods and Aliens), most people come into their powers in their mid - late teens, and even then, must work at keeping their strength and stamina at a point that it doesn't decrease. How many comics have you seen where say a mutant is working out in the danger room, or a certain symbiotic villain out for revenge is pumping iron so he can exact his revenge on Spidey?? Even someone like Cap needs to keep himself in peak physical condition - although his strength isn't in the order of magnitude that Supernatural PS would represent..

Thanks guys.. Like I said (in a different thread).. I'm just getting back into Roleplaying, now that my kids are old enough to appreciate it, and this helps resolve some issues for me.. I almost miss revised HU. Things were a lot less.... complicated then.

[Steeler49er]

I like how marvel FASERIP, Champions, GURPS, ABERRANT/Trinity, Brave New World, and countless others allowed for it...
But NO, not PB... We're gonna stand out from the crowed and show our displeasure towards the potential of powergaming with our Higher Moral Stance and by Forcing our Munchkiphobia down yer gullit- lol

Really, just look at how the Marvel FASERIP players Guide talks about player advancement in the game HERE on Page 30 paragraph 8 in the example in which they're discussing how She-Hulk has gotten stronger over the many years of intence Weight lifting.

I saw Rogue, Ben Grimm and Many others Lifting Weights/pumping Iron so as to stay fit...

Yeah sure, Many beings gain massive strength in comic books and never need to work out a day, and will never get stronger or weaken... But that is only one-half of the super strong fictional super base.

Additionally, you ONLY need to take Skills before you pick Powers IF you are wanting Powers in the begining, that rule simply can Not exist for those that get; HU SN PS, True SN PS, EX PS, or SH PS  after words.

ADD IN that a guy who's normal (but a powerful Weight lifter) can add in their PS gained from the initial Attribute roll and from Physical skill, to APS powers which have augmented PS...
Meaning the Metal man is gonna beat out everyone for ps in time.

[Incriptus]

If you're a physical skill buff who suddenly gets Super Natural Strength you lose the bonuses you got from your skills . . . . I am a spiteful god.

[VR Dragon]

I just love the little part in the book that says, " Ignore what doesn't make sense". This would be one of those. Sorry I always allow for Str bonus from skills to add in. sheesh its not that much of a boost.

[Incriptus]

<evil>if it's not that much of a boost they shouldn't mind losing it</evil>

[VooDu]

Let them have it. I can see a person lifting cars, trains, safes, etc. to be stronger. It's not that much you can really add and for those with lots of adds let em have it. You can make something stronger if you want.

[Adventus]

EDIT: Comment removed for violating the "No Conversion Policy". NMI

[PapaMambo]

supernatural level of strength is not always from a supernatural source. What is supernatural about titan juicer conversion? A genetic experiment with normal human DNA that results in a powerhouse with super strength. Perhaps SNPS should have two categories, mundane and magical. SNPS that clearly comes from a magical ie supernatural source cannot be improved by exercise. So dragons are sol and imbued superheroes and so on and so on. Mundane SNPS would be allowed to have strength increases from exercise. Even some mega-heroes who become effectively supernatural creatures would still fall under the mundane SNPS. It would all depend on the source of the mutation that gave the specific character their supernatural level of strength.

my 2 cents.
Necronomicus

Well, the way I've always looked at things is this - Supernatural PS is strength on the order of magnitude that most Supernatural creatures would possess. That doesn't necessarily mean that it comes from a supernatural source, or is bestowed upon an individual. (I'm not converting anything, just referencing characters we all know or have heard of) Characters like Captain Marvel exhibit it as a bestowed source, but characters like the Hulk and Supes do not. Godling type characters like Thor and Hercules are considered Supernatural beings, so it fits them perfectly, but I find that they tend to be the exception not the rule. It seems that MOST of the 'heavy hitters' in the various comic houses are not mystically bestowed their strength, but do come about it either through an accident or experimentation or mutation. Perhaps choosing Supernatural Strength as a name for the power is a bit of a misnomer.. perhaps it should have been something like Mega strength to represent the idea that it can come from sources other than the supernatural, much like the Titan Juicer you referenced..

I personally like this power that I found

Cosmic Strength

The character possesses strength beyond even those with supernatural strength.
Bonuses: Add 50 +4D6 points to the regular PS attribute. Note that physical skills do not add to the cosmic PS, but certain super abilities may.
Can carry 1000 times his/her PS in pounds and can lift 2000 times!
Fatigues at one tenth the rate of humans.
+2 to pull punch
Uses the same table as the Supernatural PS table. This power merely increases the amount weight that can be lifted and carried.

It seems to solve most of the issues that I have with creating characters that have strength on the order of magnitude that most really Heavy hitters have.. I would post the link to the site, but they HAVE posted conversions for quite a few Marvel/DC/Image characters, and I don't want to derail this topic or have it closed because of a stupid violation.. If anyone wants the link, just PM me..

[VR Dragon]

well just rename Super Natural Physical Strength to Mega Strength and drop any magical reference of it.