Archie .. Knowledge question.

[Lenwen]

Does Archie since he is the remnents of Nema .. know about the Lone Star Complex ?

Why or why not ?

[Tiree]

Quick Answer: Yes. Archie has knowledge of all pre-rifts NEMA and US Military locations. His ties to these locations may or may not have been cut due to the Rifts and the aftermath. It may also be reason why Archie is able to have unlimited amounts of resources to build mecha and robots.

[Shark_Force]

know about as in know of it's existence, or know about as in having detailed floorplans, inventory lists, etc?

my opinion:

know of? of course. not sure if the average CS inhabitant would know where it is per se (other than being in lone star state somewhere), but isn't it the capital of lone star state? it's a large military base where a substantial portion of the CS troops come through (or at least, the dog boy CS troops). hiding it would be almost as difficult as completely preventing so much as a whisper about an entirely new lineup of robots, power armor, body armor, weaponry, airfields, aircraft, and so forth (and yes, that last little bit was sarcastic, but was more intended to point out how absurd it is for the new CS army to be a total shock to everyone, not to state that the one makes a case for the other being possible)

have detailed plans, inventories, etc? well, he probably has at the very least floor plans of what it used to look like. he might have a list of it's military assets, the number of labs, how many soldiers it could have housed, what kind of production capabilities it has, what would be in the armory, etc... obviously, all that information is to some extent out of date, but at the same time it's not necessarily completely useless either. to my knowledge, no major changes have been made to the layout of the base. as such, while he may not know what it *does* have in the way of troops, he probably has a pretty good idea of how much it *could* have, and perhaps even (through spies) a good idea of what kind of military contingent is normally stationed there.

[Nightmaster]

Yes he do, but not because of NEMA but because there was a great allacry against it in the age when the complex was being build (see Rifts Lone Star book for that info).

So yes he does know that the complex exist long before the CS but could not do a thing about it before. After the CS found the complex and reactivated it, perhaps due to the skelebots he have infiltrated into the CS, he probably have a better position to steal information or even cripple/destroy the complex if he do wish.

[Lenwen]

Thank you for your insight guys. I had a itchy feeling that he would have the knowledge of any and all Nema/USA Bases .. but I had no idea about wether or not he had the Knowledge of the Lone Star base .. or the Groom Lake Base.

Again Thank you

[Rallan]

For bonus points, Archie probably also knows where the Mindwerks facility in Poland is and has files on Angel Herrenisel as well. Although since he's got virtually no reliable information on Europe, he probably isn't aware of what's happened to that place and that woman since the coming of the Rifts.

[keir451]

He'd also have records of every US military base and asset in the US, Canada, and Mexico. He was HQ Echo's main A.I. after all.

[Lenwen]

He'd also have records of every US military base and asset in the US, Canada, and Mexico. He was HQ Echo's main A.I. after all.

This alone is one of the biggest adventure hooks ever for ARCHIE

And one of the main reasons that I absolutly love Archie .. as thee most powerful block in the Rifts world.

[Lenwen]

And it does not hurt that Archie himself would be able to take out either of the Coalition or Free Quebec .. on his own.

[Lenwen]

And it does not hurt that Archie himself would be able to take out either of the Coalition or Free Quebec .. on his own.

I just don't think Archie could hope to take out either of those powerhouses on his own.

Its already been stated canonly speaking that is.

Sourcebook 1 "Revised" stats that Archie could win against either of those nations. In an All out War.

[Shark_Force]

And it does not hurt that Archie himself would be able to take out either of the Coalition or Free Quebec .. on his own.

I just don't think Archie could hope to take out either of those powerhouses on his own.

oh, i dunno... he might be able to take out free quebec, if he caught them by surprise. i agree about the CS though... even if you disregard their plot armor, i don't think ARCHIE (at present) could take them out. there's too many different targets he'd have to hit all at once.

even vs free quebec, it'd be pretty unlikely. i mean, he could certainly take out sizeable chunks of their army in a surprise attack, and i could see free quebec as a *nation* being seriously damaged or even becoming unable to maintain their independance (armies of shemarrian warrior women, or equivalently-armed and mobile 'bots are a scary foe), and possibly even having enough of their military wiped out in the surprise attack that ARCHIE can finish the job... but at this time, i don't think ARCHIE is quite ready for that yet. even if he did take it out, i don't see him as being able to hold it. not yet, at least.

edit: wait... they actually came out and said he could take them out? well, ARCHIE must have something i don't know about at least. i just don't see it happening.

[Lenwen]

And it does not hurt that Archie himself would be able to take out either of the Coalition or Free Quebec .. on his own.

I just don't think Archie could hope to take out either of those powerhouses on his own.

oh, i dunno... he might be able to take out free quebec, if he caught them by surprise. i agree about the CS though... even if you disregard their plot armor, i don't think ARCHIE (at present) could take them out. there's too many different targets he'd have to hit all at once.

even vs free quebec, it'd be pretty unlikely. i mean, he could certainly take out sizeable chunks of their army in a surprise attack, and i could see free quebec as a *nation* being seriously damaged or even becoming unable to maintain their independance (armies of shemarrian warrior women, or equivalently-armed and mobile 'bots are a scary foe), and possibly even having enough of their military wiped out in the surprise attack that ARCHIE can finish the job... but at this time, i don't think ARCHIE is quite ready for that yet. even if he did take it out, i don't see him as being able to hold it. not yet, at least.

edit: wait... they actually came out and said he could take them out? well, ARCHIE must have something i don't know about at least. i just don't see it happening.

I have no doubt that Archie would be able to take out Free Quebec. This would be an easy target.

The Coalition however would be alot harder to take out .. but It is something as the books say that the Self proclaimed God would be able to do.

I wont try to go against the books

Archie is the Real power in North America so far that I am concerned and as is written.

[Lenwen]

And it does not hurt that Archie himself would be able to take out either of the Coalition or Free Quebec .. on his own.

I just don't think Archie could hope to take out either of those powerhouses on his own.

oh, i dunno... he might be able to take out free quebec, if he caught them by surprise. i agree about the CS though... even if you disregard their plot armor, i don't think ARCHIE (at present) could take them out. there's too many different targets he'd have to hit all at once.

even vs free quebec, it'd be pretty unlikely. i mean, he could certainly take out sizeable chunks of their army in a surprise attack, and i could see free quebec as a *nation* being seriously damaged or even becoming unable to maintain their independance (armies of shemarrian warrior women, or equivalently-armed and mobile 'bots are a scary foe), and possibly even having enough of their military wiped out in the surprise attack that ARCHIE can finish the job... but at this time, i don't think ARCHIE is quite ready for that yet. even if he did take it out, i don't see him as being able to hold it. not yet, at least.

edit: wait... they actually came out and said he could take them out? well, ARCHIE must have something i don't know about at least. i just don't see it happening.

I have no doubt that Archie would be able to take out Free Quebec. This would be an easy target.

The Coalition however would be alot harder to take out .. but It is something as the books say that the Self proclaimed God would be able to do.

I wont try to go against the books

Archie is the Real power in North America so far that I am concerned and as is written.

This is in the revised source book 1? Because in the Shemarion Nation book (which is the latest archie book right?) it very clearly says he could NOT take the CS (at least at the moment or for the foreseeable future though he does have long term plans). Does not mention Free Quebec (IIRC).

Yes. It is in the Revised .. gimmea minute I'll get you the pg# an stuff for verification.

[Lenwen]

Archie commands a legion of robots that could decimate any nation on the continent. Taking down Free Quebec or the Coalition States would be a battle, but it is probably one the Self-proclaimed Machine-god would win.

There ya go my friend.

[Crucible]

Archie commands a legion of robots that could decimate any nation on the continent. Taking down Free Quebec or the Coalition States would be a battle, but it is probably one the Self-proclaimed Machine-god would win.

There ya go my friend.

I knew this after reading the original.

[Lenwen]

Archie is the Preimminent Power on the North American continent in my opionion.

The mere fact that he alone has kept the Atlantean's off of the continent for so long is all the proof you need of that ..

[Crucible]

Archie is the Preimminent Power on the North American continent in my opionion.

The mere fact that he alone has kept the Atlantean's off of the continent for so long is all the proof you need of that ..

He's going to be the reason (in my game) the Splugorth has avoided Earth altogether.

[MaxxSterling]

Archie could crush the Coalition, if he were able to hack the coalitions robotic resources (Just like Skynet, since that's basically what he was only minus the internet connection). And Quebec ain't that great to start with, so he could take them. The real killer would be IF he was able to create nano-machines to any degree and use them to attack. Heck, in my campaign, I had a starship with a Graviton Mass Driver on it, and destroyed Rifts Earth. Hate to shatter the Coalition, Fed. of Magic, Quebec, Archie, Xitix, Atlantis, NGR, Mindwerks and everyone elses little hopes and dreams. But the reality is, in this system, any anus with 40-50 droids can pilot a starship to Earth and destroy it (Assuming the gamemaster is as nuts as his party). - My two cents.

[Lenwen]

Archie is the Preimminent Power on the North American continent in my opionion.

The mere fact that he alone has kept the Atlantean's off of the continent for so long is all the proof you need of that ..

He's going to be the reason (in my game) the Splugorth has avoided Earth altogether.

Which means flat out then that Archie's colony would have survived the atlantean mini war .. which would never have happened ..

Which means that little colony hundreds of years ago .. would be Incredibly HUGE .. now .. and push Archie into even a higher power status then he is now ..

Archie with out atlantis in rifts Earth would flat out be nearly unstoppable by anyone .. combined or not .. Free Quebec and the CS would not stand a chance against Archie .. had his colonies survived thier Mass attacks by the Atlantean forces.

[Crucible]

Archie is the Preimminent Power on the North American continent in my opionion.

The mere fact that he alone has kept the Atlantean's off of the continent for so long is all the proof you need of that ..

He's going to be the reason (in my game) the Splugorth has avoided Earth altogether.

Which means flat out then that Archie's colony would have survived the atlantean mini war .. which would never have happened ..

Which means that little colony hundreds of years ago .. would be Incredibly HUGE .. now .. and push Archie into even a higher power status then he is now ..

Archie with out atlantis in rifts Earth would flat out be nearly unstoppable by anyone .. combined or not .. Free Quebec and the CS would not stand a chance against Archie .. had his colonies survived thier Mass attacks by the Atlantean forces.

Could there not be an extremely powerful Atlantean that did all of this? This is ATLANTIS, why not let a powered Atlantis take the helm?

[Lenwen]

Archie is the Preimminent Power on the North American continent in my opionion.

The mere fact that he alone has kept the Atlantean's off of the continent for so long is all the proof you need of that ..

He's going to be the reason (in my game) the Splugorth has avoided Earth altogether.

Which means flat out then that Archie's colony would have survived the atlantean mini war .. which would never have happened ..

Which means that little colony hundreds of years ago .. would be Incredibly HUGE .. now .. and push Archie into even a higher power status then he is now ..

Archie with out atlantis in rifts Earth would flat out be nearly unstoppable by anyone .. combined or not .. Free Quebec and the CS would not stand a chance against Archie .. had his colonies survived thier Mass attacks by the Atlantean forces.

Could there not be an extremely powerful Atlantean that did all of this? This is ATLANTIS, why not let a powered Atlantis take the helm?

When have the true atlantean's EVER .. done anything remotly like that if they did not do that to themselves ?

That would be MORE outta character .. for the Atlanteans then anything you could think up of ..

[Crucible]

Archie is the Preimminent Power on the North American continent in my opionion.

The mere fact that he alone has kept the Atlantean's off of the continent for so long is all the proof you need of that ..

He's going to be the reason (in my game) the Splugorth has avoided Earth altogether.

Which means flat out then that Archie's colony would have survived the atlantean mini war .. which would never have happened ..

Which means that little colony hundreds of years ago .. would be Incredibly HUGE .. now .. and push Archie into even a higher power status then he is now ..

Archie with out atlantis in rifts Earth would flat out be nearly unstoppable by anyone .. combined or not .. Free Quebec and the CS would not stand a chance against Archie .. had his colonies survived thier Mass attacks by the Atlantean forces.

Could there not be an extremely powerful Atlantean that did all of this? This is ATLANTIS, why not let a powered Atlantis take the helm?

When have the true atlantean's EVER .. done anything remotly like that if they did not do that to themselves ?

That would be MORE outta character .. for the Atlanteans then anything you could think up of ..

Never, they don't really exists. The same can be said for the Splugorth. They did however in the sense of Plato's writings rule most of the Earth and most have even said they were the orginators of the pyramids just to deepen the story. So, it would not be out of character. They were not a peaceful people.

[Lenwen]

They were not a peaceful people.

Huh ? What books are you reading from ?

True atlanteans have always been the good guys .. unless I am not understanding something ?

[Shark_Force]

They were not a peaceful people.

Huh ? What books are you reading from ?

True atlanteans have always been the good guys .. unless I am not understanding something ?

lenwen, you're talking in Rifts. crucible is talking about the real world myths about atlantis. the real world myths state that atlantis ruled a huge portion of the world, decided to go kill everyone in what would eventually become athens (and is supposed to have been basically the land of people who are super-awesomely good and not tyrannical at all) but were pushed back and defeated in their efforts to conquer the world. it is mentioned that atlantis originally used to be pretty good, back when it was founded, but eventually they become a bunch of jerks, and eventually the island was completely wiped off the face of the planets (as i understand it, the general assumption is that it was a punishment from the gods for being a bunch of arrogant jerks. and also because they didn't respect the gods.)

does that clarify everything for you?

(note: that is a rather simplified, and slightly tongue-in-cheek version of the story. it is however reasonably accurate, so far as i can tell)

[Lenwen]

They were not a peaceful people.

Huh ? What books are you reading from ?

True atlanteans have always been the good guys .. unless I am not understanding something ?

lenwen, you're talking in Rifts. crucible is talking about the real world myths about atlantis. the real world myths state that atlantis ruled a huge portion of the world, decided to go kill everyone in what would eventually become athens (and is supposed to have been basically the land of people who are super-awesomely good and not tyrannical at all) but were pushed back and defeated in their efforts to conquer the world. it is mentioned that atlantis originally used to be pretty good, back when it was founded, but eventually they become a bunch of jerks, and eventually the island was completely wiped off the face of the planets (as i understand it, the general assumption is that it was a punishment from the gods for being a bunch of arrogant jerks. and also because they didn't respect the gods.)

does that clarify everything for you?

(note: that is a rather simplified, and slightly tongue-in-cheek version of the story. it is however reasonably accurate, so far as i can tell)

Where can one find these "Real World" mythos ?

[Overlord Rikonius]

Where can one find these "Real World" mythos ?

Go to your local library and look in the 133 section of the card catalog if you want the "Atlantis was real" stuff (that usually ties them to UFOs too).
For more mainstream stuff that focuses on the legends, IIRC that's in the 800's.

the real world myths state that atlantis ruled a huge portion of the world, decided to go kill everyone in what would eventually become athens (and is supposed to have been basically the land of people who are super-awesomely good and not tyrannical at all) but were pushed back and defeated in their efforts to conquer the world. it is mentioned that atlantis originally used to be pretty good, back when it was founded, but eventually they become a bunch of jerks, and eventually the island was completely wiped off the face of the planets (as i understand it, the general assumption is that it was a punishment from the gods for being a bunch of arrogant jerks. and also because they didn't respect the gods.)

The moral of the story is, don't be a jerk unless you live on a large continent

[Lenwen]

So there is no way to know 1 way or the other .. just exactly how the real life Atlantean's were .. or .. if they ever really exsisted in the first place ..

Gotcha ..

[Shark_Force]

So there is no way to know 1 way or the other .. just exactly how the real life Atlantean's were .. or .. if they ever really exsisted in the first place ..

Gotcha ..

well, we're talking about a story told to socrates by critias who says he heard it from his grandfather (also named critias) when critias the younger was 10 years old, and critias the older says he heard it from a chap by the name of solon (a poet and possibly a sage?) who heard it from some unnamed guy in a temple to the egyptian equivalent of athena somewhere in egypt. according to said unnamed guy, the story takes place some 9,000 years before the time he told the story. the temple (and possibly the civilisation) itself only goes back some 8,000 years previous to that time by his own account, but lucky for them they live in the part of the world that *isn't* randomly destroyed by either floods or fires on a semi-regular basis, so this particular place is supposed to be able to keep accurate histories that go back further than anyone else.

so yeah, we're not exactly dealing with what i would call extremely reliable sources of information here... something like 5th hand at best, assuming the unnamed guy in the temple in egypt had access to writings directly from someone who recorded the events as they occurred.