How outdated is the 1st Edition Rule book over at DriveThru?

[tgunner91]

I'm looking to get 'into' Rifts. I know the game has been around for a while, but I've never really had the interest to jump in until now. I've seen that Palladium has posted the 1st Edition of the rules on DriveThru and the price looks decent. This edition was printed in '95, so just how outdated is it? I have other Palladium games and I know that there are a number of rule/stat changes that have rolled in over the years. Is this book so far out that it is useless for a new player? Or is it still okay to use? Just curious.

[Nekira Sudacne]

I'm looking to get 'into' Rifts. I know the game has been around for a while, but I've never really had the interest to jump in until now. I've seen that Palladium has posted the 1st Edition of the rules on DriveThru and the price looks decent. This edition was printed in '95, so just how outdated is it? I have other Palladium games and I know that there are a number of rule/stat changes that have rolled in over the years. Is this book so far out that it is useless for a new player? Or is it still okay to use? Just curious.

It's definatly still okay to use. In fact, when playing and RUE game i'll often whip out the first edition book to look up a large number of things.

A few notes:

The spell list in the first edition Rifts RPG is actually more expansive, lacking newer spells but having more older spells (With the complete list in the book of magic).

The Skill list is still perfectly valid for looking up base number and progression, it just lacks the newer skills that were compiled into RUE

The common equipment and gear remains essentially unchanged, except for the CS gear which was upgraded as of WB 11 and was then placed in RUE

The OCC's remain mostly the same by and large, only the Cyber Knights spellcasting classes received major overhauls and are basically far more powerful now. Also the "Special abilities" of the Scholar and adventure OCC's were taken out. and Preception rules and bonus's arn't listed because preception rules wern't in the first edition. But overall, the power level of almost all the OCC's were bumped up. Better and more diverse bonus's and new special abilities abound.

The Setting Information has changed, much of the new events from the Tolkeen Wars and Aftermath were updated, and as a result much of the origional information was left out. But there are some areas that were unchanged that are also left out.

Now, things in the main book you won't find in RUE

The Origional run of Dragon Hatchlings. RUE had brand new dragon species and took out the origional. They're not gone, mind, he just wanted new, Rifts-unique dragons while the first ones were palladium fantasy dragons. It does say that the first batch (Fire, Ice, Thunder, and Great Horned) are still valid and so you need either that book or Dragons and Gods for the other species (Actually you still need dragons and gods for some species)

The back of the origional Rifts Main Book contains tables and rules for unique monster generation. They will seem pretty underpowered compared to now, but they were scaled for back before OCC's like Mega Juicers and Battle Magus exsisted. They are cool to see what an _average_ place on Rifts Earth might have, but unless your running a low powered campaign they'll mostly be slaughtered.

It also has in the very back "Quick stats" for an average Coalition grunt and headhunter mercenary and SAMAS pilot, which are good if you need your villian to chuck some stormtroopers at the party.

A peice of RPG History. The Rifts Main Book sparked something of a minor revolution. it singlehandedly thrust Palladium Books into the mainstream, captured the imaginations of millions and shows the style of palladium books from back then. Kevin's style has changed and matured over the years in his writing, but there's something charming about his exuberance in writing the main book. It was obviously young and somewhat inexperianced, but part of it's charm. As one friend of mine put it reads like a buddy at the bar is telling you this great story he heard about last week. It's hard to define but there's a youthful energy that permeates though every page in an RPG that, even decades later, RPG afficianados still point to as the one setting where you truely can make anything happen. No other RPG ever made mixes so many elements of fantasy and Sci-Fi and does it half so well, and in a setting where you can have a cyborg goblin playing next to a son of zeus playing next to a young archmage playing next to james bond playing next to dirty harry playing next to cho yun fat playing next to a dragon. Seriously. It's worth it just to capture a peice of the spark that ignited the flames.

RUE certaintly retains much of that spark, but it dosn't quite feel the same. A bit of the gritty post-apocalypsium has been polished off to replace with shiney new toys and powers with which to fight the horrors of the Rifts.

[rat_bastard]

I'd pony up 10 more dollars for a secendhand copy of RUE, wait till November/December and order a few Christmas packages for sourcebooks and see if you can get the original Rifts main book at a used book store.

I love the company but all they are offering is outdated materials on PDF, so I'm not all that interested.

[Nekira Sudacne]

I'd pony up 10 more dollars for a secendhand copy of RUE, wait till November/December and order a few Christmas packages for sourcebooks and see if you can get the original Rifts main book at a used book store.

I love the company but all they are offering is outdated materials on PDF, so I'm not all that interested.

I'm very interested, mostly because I came in to palladium 5 years ago so a lot of the eairly stuff I never had a chance to look at.

[rat_bastard]

I'd pony up 10 more dollars for a secendhand copy of RUE, wait till November/December and order a few Christmas packages for sourcebooks and see if you can get the original Rifts main book at a used book store.

I love the company but all they are offering is outdated materials on PDF, so I'm not all that interested.

I'm very interested, mostly because I came in to palladium 5 years ago so a lot of the eairly stuff I never had a chance to look at.

Seriously?

five years?

*looks over the collection ratty has made in 8 years*

Oh, five years...

ok.

[sasha]

I remember playing Rifts in the mid-1990s. The GM was horrible but his mother always had food for us and apparently didn't realise how narrow are her walls (or how loud she was) when her boyfriend came over. I didn't get my first Rifts book until 2002 or something like that.

Yea and I actually remember the campaign, too. I was a Glitterboy Pilot and we smoked some Xiticix.

And to answer the question if you're not sure about playing Rifts, spending as little money as possible to find out might be the best way to go. Obviously people have played the hell out of the original Rifts so it's playable and fun.

[tgunner91]

Thanks guys, that was what I was looking for. I went on ahead and grabbed a copy. It definately shows its Robotech roots (the first parts of the book look just like Robotech: Macross).

So is the equipment in here 'obsolete' by the recent edition? That is the impression that I'm getting. MDC scale creep and all that, right?

Are the character classes still on track, or have there been a lot of changes there too? On person above mentioned that one class got a total overhaul. Is that true for the other O.C.C.s?

Thanks!

Oh, what is considered to be 'the' current edition?

[Dustin Fireblade]

Thanks guys, that was what I was looking for. I went on ahead and grabbed a copy. It definately shows its Robotech roots (the first parts of the book look just like Robotech: Macross).

So is the equipment in here 'obsolete' by the recent edition? That is the impression that I'm getting. MDC scale creep and all that, right?

Are the character classes still on track, or have there been a lot of changes there too? On person above mentioned that one class got a total overhaul. Is that true for the other O.C.C.s?

Thanks!

Oh, what is considered to be 'the' current edition?

As far as equipment being obsolete - no not all. The CS weapons are still good, as is the Northern Gun and Wilk's weapons. There are better and worse weapons in later books. Body Armor is still good.

Regarding the classes - Rifts Ultimate tweaked how all classes got new skills at later levels, but using a "old" version is still fine. Cyber-Knights were the most extensive change from the old book to the newest.

The current edition is Rifts Ultimate, 2nd Printing.

[runebeo]

Nothing wrong with first edition at all. Rifts Ultimate is better with some nice improvements like more spells, more psionic powers and full of great art. First edition is only really missing one thing and thats a supernatural P.S. chart that came along a few books later.

[MikelAmroni]

Thanks guys, that was what I was looking for. I went on ahead and grabbed a copy. It definately shows its Robotech roots (the first parts of the book look just like Robotech: Macross).
So is the equipment in here 'obsolete' by the recent edition? That is the impression that I'm getting. MDC scale creep and all that, right?
Are the character classes still on track, or have there been a lot of changes there too? On person above mentioned that one class got a total overhaul. Is that true for the other O.C.C.s?
Thanks!
Oh, what is considered to be 'the' current edition?

Yeah it does. You know how I got into Rifts? I was looking in the back of some of my Robotech books, and it had a picture of the Terrain Hopper Power Armor. I was entranced! Then I paged through the book and had to get it! Nekira is right: Kevin's writing back then had a lot of FIRE in it. Everything was new and shiny, everything was unexplored, and many things would be done (right and wrong), but in those heady first days, it was groundbreaking (at least to those of us who drank the Kool-Aid and dove in).

Personally? I run out of the original rifts, using the RUE like I would House Rules, as notes added on. There was a nice setting there in those pages, and one ripe for low level adventure....and yet my first (real) Rifts campaign involved Godlings, go fig LOL.

[Subjugator]

I like both versions and I like them for different reasons. Like Nekkie says, I like the original for its fire and its description of absolute desolation. The newer one is showing some rapid recovery of the planet with more people that I'd originally expected. I think Crazies are better in RUE, but I think that too many of the classes in later versions are overpowered.

One of the best things about Rifts is that it kind of renders one's character's power level irrelevant. I say this because you can start out as a Glitter Boy and be a top level baddie from the get go if you want, but you can also start out as a vagabond or Rogue Scholar and be a wuss, but fit in quite well in a group with a Glitter Boy. While some call it a munchkin game, I say it is heavy role playing. I say that because power is no longer the goal - one can be powerful if one wants - instead who you are is the most important aspect of the game.

/Sub

[Nekira Sudacne]

I like both versions and I like them for different reasons. Like Nekkie says, I like the original for its fire and its description of absolute desolation. The newer one is showing some rapid recovery of the planet with more people that I'd originally expected. I think Crazies are better in RUE, but I think that too many of the classes in later versions are overpowered.

One of the best things about Rifts is that it kind of renders one's character's power level irrelevant. I say this because you can start out as a Glitter Boy and be a top level baddie from the get go if you want, but you can also start out as a vagabond or Rogue Scholar and be a wuss, but fit in quite well in a group with a Glitter Boy. While some call it a munchkin game, I say it is heavy role playing. I say that because power is no longer the goal - one can be powerful if one wants - instead who you are is the most important aspect of the game.

/Sub

Although to say, in my experiance being a Glitter Boy Pilot OCC never really helps. You can't walk around in a city with it meaning most of the time you'll be out of it when battle starts.

[Jefffar]

I'd say that 90% of the existing Rifts books are still "1st Edition" rules or have the relevant rules modifications within them. So a "1st Edition" book is pretty much up to date.

[glitterboy2098]

the RMB's glitterboy OCC is actually a touch less munchkin than the one in RUE. first, because the RUE version includes (IIRC) the "decended glitterboy" bonuses from WB:FQ, and second, and probably more importantly, it presents the correct number of rounds for the boomgun, 100.

RUE and CE perpetuated the munchkinistic result of an unfortunate typo in a later printing of WB:FQ, where glitterboys got 10x more ammo than they could ever hope to use, to even fit physically onto their suit...




one of the downsides of the RMB is that the magic rules limited spellcasters to at best two spells a melee, and penalized them heavily if hit during casting. which made magic way too weak compared to technology. RUE fixed that quite a bit.

RUE also fixed the rate of fire for weapons, so you could no longer do things like fire a whole clip off in one melee and kill anything in the game (full auto plasma ejectors went the way of the dodo in RUE....which i consider a good thing..)

RUE also added the enahance close combat and range combat rules, which include things like to-strike modifiers for shooting at moving targets and clarification of how to dodge missiles. this has resulted in a few oddities with weapons and vehicles from older books no longer being as lethal at their intended roles, but its mostly a good change.

[tgunner91]

[\quote] RUE also added the enahance close combat and range combat rules, which include things like to-strike modifiers for shooting at moving targets and clarification of how to dodge missiles. this has resulted in a few oddities with weapons and vehicles from older books no longer being as lethal at their intended roles, but its mostly a good change.[/quote]

Okay, so RUE has the newer version of the rules that you would find in say BTS2 or RSC? I was flipping through the Drivethru PDF and you're right, it has the old 'modern combat rules' from the original Robotech game.

Another question for you guys. I was reading through the adventure in The Rifter 40 and noticed that there was an encounter with 'Haunting Entities', which I take are some sort of ghost or spectre. I have BTS2 and there is a similar critter in it (an energy critter) that is SDC based. Are these kind of 'things' in Rifts too? I know it's called the Megaverse, but can you port SDC creatures into Rifts? Or is there a MDC based critter they you should use?

Thanks!

Scott

[glitterboy2098]

entities (not just haunting entities, but also possessing entities, poltergeists, tectonic entities...etc.) are fairly common in RIFTS earth. they congregate on ley lines, and every rift that opens releases a half dozen or so from other worlds.

but the fact is that many players tend to forget they exist, since compared to the other monsters and demons running around, a ghost just isn't very flashy or attention getting.


SDC critters can be ported directly into rifts. if it is supernatural or magical, it might turn MDC, but even SDC races and creatures can show up and usually thrive. otherwise things like wilderness survival would not be needed. SDC deer and rabbits and so on are common. SDC predators like wolves, tigers, and so on are far more common than MDC predators.

but again, many GM's tend to forget about the SDC aspects of the game, since those aspects are not as flashy or attention getting as the MDC stuff.


one can import stuff from ATB, BTS, PF, N&SS, and so on into RIFTS with minimal changes (usualy a case of adapting them to the newer combat rules..)

the Conversion books (especially Dark Conversions) are wonderful resources when importing such things, since anything that changes in RIFTS (like becomes MDC or gains extra magical powers) is covered in those books.

[Colt47]

The original Rifts book is definitely a good buy. If not for the piece of history, do it to get the stats for the sky king. They talk about the vehicle practically all over the place and they didn't reprint it until the second version of Source Book 1? At least I think they reprinted it in the second edition of source book 1. I haven't gotten the reprint as it seemed kind of redundant even with the new information presented.