The Vindicator

AdmTolval · Unread post by **AdmTolval** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 10:38 pm

The Vindicator

It wasn't the fastest.
It wasn't the most heavily armored.
It wasn't the most armed.

It was the biggest.
And it was my first Veritech.

I just got the new book today and saw it is no longer in the game.
I will miss it.

Colonel Wolfe · Thu Apr 10, 2008 10:52 pm

The Vindicator is the (new) Nickname of the Shadow Alpha....

Colonel Wolfe · Thu Apr 10, 2008 11:02 pm

mechanimorph wrote:
Colonel Wolfe wrote:The Vindicator is the (new) Nickname of the Shadow Alpha....

Is the Shadow Alpha that big though?

not anymore, but i think its HG's Tribute to the old Mecha from the RPG.
which was based off an out of scale Shadow fighter...

Elthbert · Unread post by **Elthbert** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 11:11 pm

Zerebus wrote:The Vindicator shall live on in our hearts and minds. Consider the new Shadow Fighter to be its honored successor.

Butthere used to be both shadow fighters and vindicators. I too miss the Vindicator.

Aramanthus · Unread post by **Aramanthus** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 2:25 am

Why can't there be a few of them hidden somewhere on the planet. You know like the original Alphas and beta from the Invid Invasion.

Arnie100 · Unread post by **Arnie100** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 4:00 am

I loved the Vindicator! That was my first mecha also! In fact, we also used the version from: http://www.robotechresearch.com/! I'm going to use it still![/url]

Protoculture · Unread post by **Protoculture** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 6:31 am

Arnie100 wrote::D I loved the Vindicator! That was my first mecha also! In fact, we also used the version from: http://www.robotechresearch.com/! I'm going to use it still![/url]

VF-6V Vindicator (misidentified from VFA-6X Shadow Alpha) in the ol' RT RPG is described as heavy assault armored Alpha variant.

There's no reason to chalk the Vindicator idea off your new RTSC based campaign.

Just reimagined the said mecha as VFA-6V Vindicator Heavy Assault Alpha, using the unused pre-production Alpha variant art from MOPSEADA OSM.

Image reference:

Battloid Mode:
http://www.robotechresearch.com/rpg/mecha/ref/veritech/vaf-x-10/vaf_x_10_modified.GIF

Fighter Mode (designed by RT:TIW guys):
http://www.robotechresearch.com/rpg/mecha/ref/veritech/vaf-x-10/vf.gif

taalismn · Unread post by **taalismn** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 9:43 am

Yep...all that space on the bigger frame meant the sort of modifiability lacking in the smaller Alphas...

Never fear, the Vindicator will be flying in the hearts and minds of the proud pilots who had the rare privilege of flying the big gawks(anybody for a future version of the Confederate Air Force, dedicated to keeping old Veritechs and one-offs flying?)

Arnie100 · Unread post by **Arnie100** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 2:22 pm

I'm In! Put me in for one of the rare VF-4 prototypes!

taalismn · Unread post by **taalismn** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 5:37 pm

Zerebus wrote:
Protoculture wrote:Just reimagined the said mecha as VFA-6V Vindicator Heavy Assault Alpha, using the unused pre-production Alpha variant art from MOPSEADA OSM.

Image reference:

Battloid Mode:
http://www.robotechresearch.com/rpg/mecha/ref/veritech/vaf-x-10/vaf_x_10_modified.GIF

Holy cripes!

I want one.

Get in line and prepare to bid high..

jedi078 · Unread post by **jedi078** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 7:03 pm

I went an idea inspired from Robotech research

The Vindicator is an oversize Alpha, much like the F/A-18E/F/G is a larger version fo the original F/A-18A/B/C/D. It was built to accommodate the first shadow devices which were too big to put on a standard Alpha. They were also placed in the remaining few VF-4's that the REF still had in service/pulled from mothballs.

Vindicators, and VF-4's were part of the 21st Mars Division, quite a few made it to ground due to the fact they had shadow devices.

The Shadow Fighter's we see at the end of New Gen and SC are normal sized Alpha's. Basicly the REF managed to size down the Shadow device, and no longer had a use for the oversized Vindicator Alpha variant.

None of this is is canon, but I don't give a rip, when I'm the GM it’s my game and I run it the way I like (this is any GM”s prerogative BTW). Besides I've been pretty successful with my PBP games on rpol.

Aramanthus · Unread post by **Aramanthus** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 4:53 am

I'm sure there is enough of them for those of us interested in them!

devillin · Unread post by **devillin** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 7:01 am

Two of my players will agree with you wholeheartedly. They haven't seen the new book yet, so I haven't had the heart to tell them that the Vindicator doesn't exist anymore for the official game. The three that still exist in my crossover campaign will be the last of their breed, along with the chest missile armed VR-052s that they have (now back-modeled to be the VR-051). However, just like the VR-051s, once the players lose them, they are gone forever.

taalismn · Unread post by **taalismn** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 4:04 pm

ARGH!!
Seen the latest update?
The ShadowChronicles sourcebook doesn't even APPEAR! I gotta wait another year or more to get my UEEF starships, new Alphas, and Horizon-Vs? Or will that be in the hardcover 'big format' rules book?!
Not quite ready to implode, but a little miffed...

Aramanthus · Unread post by **Aramanthus** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 2:01 am

I saw the latest update. I'm still hoping they'll surprise us with something. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for that.

Tiree · Unread post by **Tiree** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 9:24 am

taalismn wrote:ARGH!!
Seen the latest update?
The ShadowChronicles sourcebook doesn't even APPEAR! I gotta wait another year or more to get my UEEF starships, new Alphas, and Horizon-Vs? Or will that be in the hardcover 'big format' rules book?!
Not quite ready to implode, but a little miffed...

They have been pretty up front with us on the fact that they wanted to do the Era books first.

It also makes a bit more sense to me, as if you were going to do a Shadow Chronicle Sourcebook, you would want to get as much information about the next movie in there. Get HG and Tommy Yune plenty of time to compile their notes and what not, pick through their pre-production sketches and stuff. Give us the meat that we want, without it being retconned by the new movie.

glitterboy2098 · Mon Apr 14, 2008 10:14 am

Robotech_Master wrote:The Vindicator never really existed in the show anyway. It was the result of a mixup, misidentifying unmanned drones as Shadow Fighters and misjudging the size of Shadow Fighter battloids in comparison to visual cues so misidentifying an ordinary Shadow Alpha as a "Vindicator."

actually it wasn't 'misidentified', there were larger alpha's present in the footage. but they were animator mistakes, not intended to be any different size from the other alpha's.

in the animation there are a few scenes where it's pretty obvious the alpha's are bigger than usual. one has cyclone riders showing up too small in comparison, the other has one rammed by a shock trooper, where the shock trooper (consistantly the same rough size as an alpha) is about half the size of the alpha.

these fall under the same catagory as scotts ability to fire 32 missiles from his shoulder bins in fighter mode, or the lack of thruster wash when taking off sometimes, or scotts "superman" jump to enter the suspended alpha in the episode where the band comes together.

palladium did misidentify the drone shadow fighters for manned shadows though.

HG has decreed that the vindicator did not exist inthe show. now, if palladium gets the OK to add it's own designs, you might see a revised vindicator with all new back story shopw up (i like the comparison to the "Super Hornet" myself..), but it didn't appear in the show by canon.

taalismn · Unread post by **taalismn** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 3:26 pm

Agreed...the Vindicator will continue to be an old favorite trotted out in games when the Anime Purists aren't watching...

Tiree · Unread post by **Tiree** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 5:32 pm

taalismn wrote:Agreed...the Vindicator will continue to be an old favorite trotted out in games when the Anime Purists aren't watching...

We are always watching! :quiet:

taalismn · Unread post by **taalismn** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 5:43 pm

Tiree wrote:
taalismn wrote:Agreed...the Vindicator will continue to be an old favorite trotted out in games when the Anime Purists aren't watching...

We are always watching!

"Objecting Purists Will Be Sacked"
Shot of RPGers gathered for a night of furious playing..
Player 1: "Great, my 8th level VT PIlot warms up his beloved and battlescarred Vindicator..."
Player2: "You can't have a Vindicator! It's a misinterpreted Shadow Fighter! It doesn't exist! It's Palla---"
(Shot of bound and bagged objector getting tossed into dumpster behind apartment building...)

Aramanthus · Unread post by **Aramanthus** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 9:45 pm

I know none of my player will argue about it existing in the game. We'll just say it came from an alternate universe! I guess SC is the one age that didn't really get any support so now it'll have it's first supplement! That is cool!

Novastar · Unread post by **Novastar** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 10:52 pm

I still like Vindicators being the veritech's the UEEF left Earth with (thinking they were going to be fighting Zentraedi), and the miniaturized Alpha's are what they came back with, after having to fight the Masters & Invid.

taalismn · Unread post by **taalismn** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 5:35 pm

WHATEVER works to keep your Vindicators flying... :-D

taalismn · Unread post by **taalismn** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 5:39 pm

mechanimorph wrote:
Novastar wrote:I still like Vindicators being the veritech's the UEEF left Earth with (thinking they were going to be fighting Zentraedi), and the miniaturized Alpha's are what they came back with, after having to fight the Masters & Invid.

We could call it the VF-7! ......no wait

Is something akin to that going to show up among the mecha of the Pirates of the Southern Cross? That looks like a fun project with some potential...

taalismn · Unread post by **taalismn** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 6:37 pm

I'm kinda fond of the Southern Cross for a number of reasons...The armor has shown up on a number of Cyberknights...and in the SuperDimensional Southern Cross/Evangelion threat, they're emerging as a power with troops ready for just about ANY environment...
Plus, 15 armies makes for great interservice rivalry bar-fights...

taalismn · Unread post by **taalismn** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 6:55 pm

"We got a trooper for every climate under the sun...Reynolds in the HCOS for the tropics, Dwight in the DS if we decide to hit Mexico City on a lark, Gonzalez in the TC for just about anyplace else, Sir Johns in the MOS if we go raiding mountain temples, Henderson in the Sea Squad complains he does all the work when we're ocean-bound, and Nanuk keeps to the galley freezer until we decide to sail the Arctic Ocean and maybe raid Santa's workshop!"

Rabid Southern Cross Fan · Wed Apr 16, 2008 9:59 pm

glitterboy2098 wrote:actually it wasn't 'misidentified', there were larger alpha's present in the footage. but they were animator mistakes, not intended to be any different size from the other alpha's.

Actually, no there weren't. The Alpha in question is the same size as the normal Alpha. Ken Olson got the width of the Invid Shocktrooper wrong by a full meter. Thats how you ended up with an Alpha that was offscale.

these fall under the same catagory as scotts ability to fire 32 missiles from his shoulder bins in fighter mode

You'll have to refresh my memory as to which episode this occurs in.

glitterboy2098 · Thu Apr 17, 2008 12:18 am

Rabid Southern Cross Fan wrote:
these fall under the same catagory as scotts ability to fire 32 missiles from his shoulder bins in fighter mode

You'll have to refresh my memory as to which episode this occurs in.

multiple.

i guess i should have been more specific, instead of using an injoke. i'm referring to Scotts ability to fire the same 8 missiles from his shoulder launchers in fighter mode two to three times in a single engagement. this has been the source of joking explanations within my cucle of friends that his alpha is special with double layers of missiles in dimensional pockets.

it is in fact, repeated use of the same peice of stock footage.

taalismn · Unread post by **taalismn** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 9:49 am

whipped4073 wrote:
mechanimorph wrote:
ArmySyko wrote:"Invid?! I'm not going anywhere near Invid Territory? That Regis, she ain't right." -- Jayne

She's got purty daughters

"I'm in" - Jayne

"Oh, & by the way, Captain... that's the last time you'll call me an Invid." -- Inara

Another use for Shadow Devices? Sneaking into Invid Hives to meet your Invid lover without the Den MOther finding out?

Aramanthus · Unread post by **Aramanthus** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 11:58 pm

This has been a very interesting conversation so far! I* have a question based on the last statement. What about nose art? What do people think of it? I know the modern military seems to frown on it. What about all of you? How do you think the UEEF forces would view it? At one time it was a very common thing. I'd like to hear what all of you think of it.

glitterboy2098 · Fri Apr 18, 2008 4:15 pm

i'd allow it, just because players should be allowed to have freedom of expression in an RPG, even when playing military campaigns. like wise i'd encourage players to come up with callsigns. (for most accurate results, have the other PC's name the character, like in reality.)

there would be limits though. no painting your Alpha black with a flames off all the leading edges for example. adding a shark mouth to the nose or a small characiture to the intake housing, sure. (provided it makes sense. a fighter pilot with the callsign 'taz' for example would proboably be ok painting a picture of the cartoon character infront of the cockpit. the same character wanting to paint a tiger would be silly, unless the squadron or unit has a name or theme that involved tigers in some way, at which point it would probably make more sense that the tiger be on the unit badge on the tails)
if the charcters have named their mecha, and want ot have a bit of nose art ot match the name, i'd allow it. same deal as above. would need to make sense given the reason.

basically, if it makes sense, i'd allow it. if it's just players wanting to put random things on their planes, probably not.

Novastar · Unread post by **Novastar** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 6:00 pm

I take a path from Pappy Boyington's memoir...
Everytime the plane comes up for re-painting (general maintenance, or because a higher-ranked officer disliked the nose art), he'd climb his plane and another, and switch the serial numbers.
That way, the other plane got re-painted. :lol:

glitterboy2098 · Fri Apr 18, 2008 7:07 pm

since the paint on Scott's Alpha wasn't effected at all, and Rick's Valkyrie didn't have even a discolored spot after getting hit by missiles and then re-entering, i'd say whatever paint the earth forces use, it's able to resist the heat of reentry rather well.

Aramanthus · Unread post by **Aramanthus** » Sat Apr 19, 2008 4:14 am

The paint could be titanium dioxide based. The paint would have a higher temperature before it became destroyed.

taalismn · Unread post by **taalismn** » Sat Apr 19, 2008 10:55 am

Hmmm...I've seen a few examples of nose and main body art, usually in relation to hobbyist model work for Macross, but haven't seen anything comparable for MOSPEADA/New Genration, aside from the fleet insignia and uber-detailing some modellers pile on...

Aramanthus · Unread post by **Aramanthus** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 2:46 am

Yeah, but the nose art could still appear on the UEEF vehicles during the new war with the Haydonites.

Beatmeclever · Unread post by **Beatmeclever** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 2:54 am

Perhaps the paint is based on technology garnered from the alien technology in the SDF-1 just like the armor used on mecha and the Robotechnology itself?

taalismn · Unread post by **taalismn** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 1:57 pm

Beatmeclever wrote:Perhaps the paint is based on technology garnered from the alien technology in the SDF-1 just like the armor used on mecha and the Robotechnology itself?

"Behold the Power and Beauty of CHROMATECHNOLOGY"!?

Arnie100 · Unread post by **Arnie100** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 2:12 pm

taalismn wrote:
Beatmeclever wrote:Perhaps the paint is based on technology garnered from the alien technology in the SDF-1 just like the armor used on mecha and the Robotechnology itself?

"Behold the Power and Beauty of CHROMATECHNOLOGY"!?

The paint that lasts forever, never gets a scratch, ALWAYS looks shined, and can withstand anything, even Minmei's singing (maybe)!!

taalismn · Unread post by **taalismn** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 2:35 pm

Arnie100 wrote:
taalismn wrote:
Beatmeclever wrote:Perhaps the paint is based on technology garnered from the alien technology in the SDF-1 just like the armor used on mecha and the Robotechnology itself?

"Behold the Power and Beauty of CHROMATECHNOLOGY"!?

The paint that lasts forever, never gets a scratch, ALWAYS looks shined, and can withstand anything, even Minmei's singing (maybe)!!

The Only Brush-On Paint Qualified to Survive a Reflex Blast!
Mind you, only the painted letters will survive. Whatever they're painted on will be vapor....

Protoculture · Unread post by **Protoculture** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 6:30 am

Hmmm...I've seen a few examples of nose and main body art, usually in relation to hobbyist model work for Macross, but haven't seen anything comparable for MOSPEADA/New Genration,

If my memory served me correctly, there exists somewhere in Mospeada OSM that show several design emblems for the Legioss (aka Alpha) that, ironically also featured a 'Minmay with a dragon'.

Some gifted member on Macrossworld makes a kick-arse, super realistic Minmay model of the said art.

taalismn · Unread post by **taalismn** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 8:48 pm

Protoculture wrote:
Hmmm...I've seen a few examples of nose and main body art, usually in relation to hobbyist model work for Macross, but haven't seen anything comparable for MOSPEADA/New Genration,

If my memory served me correctly, there exists somewhere in Mospeada OSM that show several design emblems for the Legioss (aka Alpha) that, ironically also featured a 'Minmay with a dragon'.

Some gifted member on Macrossworld makes a kick-arse, super realistic Minmay model of the said art.

Gotta see that...Post links if you can find the stuff again...

Aramanthus · Unread post by **Aramanthus** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 12:42 am

I really even think the veritech's armor can't truly protect them against the destructive nature of Minmei's voice. (At least the english version.)

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