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Unread postPosted: Sun May 10, 2020 12:50 am
  

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D-Bee

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I was thinking about my June birthday and I thought 'hey, how about getting the Shadow Chronicles? ' Funny thing, it's not part of the catalog? Something going on? The catalog should direct customers to the weekly update if there is something going on, please.


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Unread postPosted: Sun May 10, 2020 2:38 am
  

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Zenviscaype wrote:
I was thinking about my June birthday and I thought 'hey, how about getting the Shadow Chronicles? ' Funny thing, it's not part of the catalog? Something going on? The catalog should direct customers to the weekly update if there is something going on, please.


I'm sorry you have to find out this way, but Palladium no longer holds the license to the Robotech property. They are unable to sell the books anymore. Your best bet is to find them online through another vender, but they will most likely be used copies. Sorry, but Happy Birthday to you.

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Unread postPosted: Sun May 10, 2020 3:03 am
  

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Zenviscaype wrote:
I was thinking about my June birthday and I thought 'hey, how about getting the Shadow Chronicles? ' Funny thing, it's not part of the catalog? Something going on? The catalog should direct customers to the weekly update if there is something going on, please.

Palladium Books lost the Robotech license (again) a while back, as a consequence of the massive PR fiasco that the Robotech RPG Tactics devolved into.

They can no longer sell either of their Robotech game lines, and all of their future Robotech titles are cancelled. Your best bet is to look for the existing publications is to see what booksellers have them in stock new or secondhand. You can usually find Robotech RPG books on eBay for at or slightly below retail.

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Damn you for anticipating my question. I've really got to unfoe you, your information is far more valuable than my sanity when dealing with your blunt callousness. :)


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Unread postPosted: Sun May 10, 2020 5:50 am
  

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I would think it a fair warning to say that the Robotech 2nd Edition PRG is an incomplete game.
Having all the supplements (those that existed, not only advertised but never produced) is most likely not an option you want to miss.
You might, also, at least want to track copies of the old 1st edition, if you don't have it.
Ships are still mostly in scale, and the setting will be more developed.
It still can be used as a fairly nice patch for the missing stuff. (Aerial maneuvers quickly come to mind.)

However, continuity issues might arise.
And you might also want a copy of "Rift : Ultimate Edition", in order to clarify some rules. Since the Shadow Chronicle main book tend to be written as concise as possible, which does bring some issues to people not wanting to build an holistic comprehension of the book (rather than being able to have a rule lawyer at their table, pinpointing the exact paragraph of something).
For example... we did have an awkward moment before discovering the only mention of normal walking fatigue in the "Swimming" skill.
A bit like poetry, the result is meant to be taken whole rather than a piece at a time... something criticized by many game-masters and players I know.

Optionally, if you were thinking of having large group of Perytonians, then the Palladium Fantasy Magic section might become useful.

Furthermore, there is now a new RPG by Strange Machine Game, but I haven't heard anything good about it. It also does cover only the Macross section yet... which is a risk to take when investing.
I also recently learned of a new Robotech Book for Savage Worlds; more like a macross only supplement, requiring the core book for Savage Worlds by Pinnacle Entertainment Group.

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Unread postPosted: Sun May 10, 2020 12:29 pm
  

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xunk16 wrote:
...the Shadow Chronicle main book tend to be written as concise as possible...


No, it's stuffed with filler; it just lacks necessary rules because Siembieda is too indifferent to do a proper job.

xunk16 wrote:
...which does bring some issues to people not wanting to build an holistic comprehension of the book...


By "holistic," you mean skimming the book and not allowing yourself to think about how bad it is. That's not "holism," that's squinting your eyes at a disaster in order to not see the wreckage.

xunk16 wrote:
(rather than being able to have a rule lawyer at their table, pinpointing the exact paragraph of something).


You're saying that having functional rules is a bad thing, and that having a well-organized book is a bad thing.

xunk16 wrote:
For example... we did have an awkward moment before discovering the only mention of normal walking fatigue in the "Swimming" skill.


Or that it is literally impossible to run a battle with more than two combatants.

xunk16 wrote:
A bit like poetry, the result is meant to be taken whole rather than a piece at a time...


Poetry is supposed to be written more carefully than prose, not less.


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Unread postPosted: Sun May 10, 2020 3:07 pm
  

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Knight

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xunk16 wrote:
I would think it a fair warning to say that the Robotech 2nd Edition PRG is an incomplete game.
Having all the supplements (those that existed, not only advertised but never produced) is most likely not an option you want to miss.

The Robotech: the Shadow Chronicles RPG isn't really "incomplete"... the game's core book and sourcebooks do cover every part of the official Robotech setting that has official material to base the game off of, plus two books that are nearly 100% filler. All the game is really missing is stats for a double handful of minor mecha, stats for some of the warships, and a few other minor odds and ends.

We should, of course, take care to distinguish between material that is missing and material that is "missing" with the sarcastic airquote emphasis... most of the allegedly missing material is "missing" because it's literally fanfic material or content from 1st Edition that wasn't ported over because it isn't in the official setting like factions and mecha that were invented by Palladium and do not actually exist in Robotech.



xunk16 wrote:
You might, also, at least want to track copies of the old 1st edition, if you don't have it.
Ships are still mostly in scale, and the setting will be more developed.

Just that... well... pretty much everything in the books is wildly and completely incorrect.

Admittedly not entirely Palladium's fault, but still enough to get it disowned by HG as Robotech-in-name-only. The old RPG is still better skipped by anyone looking for a game that actually resembles the title on the cover.



xunk16 wrote:
Furthermore, there is now a new RPG by Strange Machine Game, but I haven't heard anything good about it. It also does cover only the Macross section yet... which is a risk to take when investing.
I also recently learned of a new Robotech Book for Savage Worlds; more like a macross only supplement, requiring the core book for Savage Worlds by Pinnacle Entertainment Group.

Given current Harmony Gold merchandise trends, neither game is likely to spawn any supplements beyond the Macross Saga... esp. with the prevailing legal situation putting all Robotech licensing at risk.





ESalter wrote:
xunk16 wrote:
...the Shadow Chronicle main book tend to be written as concise as possible...


No, it's stuffed with filler; it just lacks necessary rules because Siembieda is too indifferent to do a proper job.

I suppose you're both correct... it's concise to the point of omitting necessary material, but also packed to the binding with unnecessary material that is also frustratingly incomplete due to its conciseness.

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Unread postPosted: Mon May 11, 2020 1:25 am
  

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Knight

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Shadow Chronicles and everything related to the New Generation, is basically a RUE version, or a version 1.5 of Robotech.
Macross and Masters saga sourcebooks feel more like a true 2.0 version including character generation in Master Saga sourcebook. But they still fail due to the bad editing on the mecha mdc by location. But the fluff material is very strong, and well worth it.


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Unread postPosted: Mon May 11, 2020 9:04 am
  

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Tiree wrote:
Shadow Chronicles and everything related to the New Generation, is basically a RUE version, or a version 1.5 of Robotech.
Macross and Masters saga sourcebooks feel more like a true 2.0 version including character generation in Master Saga sourcebook. But they still fail due to the bad editing on the mecha mdc by location. But the fluff material is very strong, and well worth it.


I agree about the fluff. I never really got the Robotech Masters until I read Marker's write-up in the sourcebook.


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Unread postPosted: Tue May 12, 2020 12:40 am
  

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A good example of what I'm talking about is the following:

An Alpha specifically has Upper and Lower Arm MDC (same with leg). This shows up in Shadow Chronicles as well. When you look at the Macross Sourcebook it just lists Legs and Arms.... what?

If your going to get granular, do it all the same. Otherwise... don't!


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Unread postPosted: Tue May 12, 2020 11:57 am
  

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D-Bee

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I thought the material was solid and entertaining. I would of loved to see more about adventures about the new enemy and new worlds. I saw Shadow Chronicles and loved it; a new enemy, everyone being played and something that could take over the galaxy. Genius! What happened between my favorite game company and Harmony Gold is sad. Looking ahead I look forward to new and great ideas and adventure from the other lines.


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Unread postPosted: Tue May 12, 2020 5:07 pm
  

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Zenviscaype wrote:
I thought the material was solid and entertaining. I would of loved to see more about adventures about the new enemy and new worlds.

... well, you weren't going to get anything on that front if the Shadow Chronicles OVA hadn't been cancelled after one episode.

The leaked outline/pitch for the remaining episodes was just more of the same old characters, settings, and set pieces. The Robotech setting is VERY small.



Zenviscaype wrote:
I saw Shadow Chronicles and loved it; a new enemy, everyone being played and something that could take over the galaxy. Genius!

It wasn't "genius", it was just Robotech's usual plagiarism.

Let's just say that it wasn't a coincidence that Harmony Gold conceived a Robotech story about humanity being betrayed and attacked by a race of formerly helpful cybernetic life forms whose far-reaching campaign of technological sabotage left a backdoor in every state of the art weapon that rendered it useless against them save for a single capital ship whose systems hadn't had the backdoor installed yet when the dominant sci-fi series on television throughout its development was Universal Television's reboot/reimagining of Battlestar Galactica.

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Zer0 Kay wrote:
Damn you for anticipating my question. I've really got to unfoe you, your information is far more valuable than my sanity when dealing with your blunt callousness. :)


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Unread postPosted: Wed May 13, 2020 5:28 am
  

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Zenviscaype wrote:
I thought the material was solid and entertaining. I would of loved to see more about adventures about the new enemy and new worlds. I saw Shadow Chronicles and loved it; a new enemy, everyone being played and something that could take over the galaxy. Genius! What happened between my favorite game company and Harmony Gold is sad. Looking ahead I look forward to new and great ideas and adventure from the other lines.


Well then, good hunting. We managed to grab all the books in the last weeks of the license.
Even then, it was kinda hard. So far no regrets.
At least the complementary manuals aren't that hard to find. And the missing stats not too hard to improvise.
Certainly easier than to track back the whole comic continuity to make sense of the few bits and pieces they give about the setting.

Also liked Shadow Chronicle. And despite what Seto Kaiba is saying (which is kinda true I guess, about running the fad train...) art can also be "about the way someone connects the dots".
[Paraphrasing Amanda Palmer on that one. I'm sure Andy Warhol would agree.]
Where some might see Galactica in there, I also found the idea of a full race of Hal9000 hilarious.
But I guess that was because I got to the movie before the novels and comics. Which kinda put way more drama and mystery into it.
And there is so many sources for Janice, I think we can fairly say she's an archetype by this point. But it's not only the ingredients, it's the execution. :P

If you're courageous enough to pass the wreck that were the first run of Titan's Robotech, I'll guess you might also like Remix then.
It's been on hold for a while because one of the staff was hit by the pandemic, but there is some news starting to appear once more.
I have some suspicion the new material might be about this continuity rather than the older cycles.

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Unread postPosted: Wed May 13, 2020 10:59 am
  

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xunk16 wrote:
Where some might see Galactica in there, I also found the idea of a full race of Hal9000 hilarious.

Don't forget that they all talk like Emperor Palpatine circa Return of the Jedi... they use "foreseen" a LOT.

There's not a lot of original thought in RTSC.



xunk16 wrote:
If you're courageous enough to pass the wreck that were the first run of Titan's Robotech, I'll guess you might also like Remix then.
It's been on hold for a while because one of the staff was hit by the pandemic, but there is some news starting to appear once more.

Where is that coming from? There is nothing about that, or indeed any word at all, from Titan Comics about the status of Remix. Titan Comics has indicated that a chunk of its March lineup and its April lineup are delayed due to the UK's coronavirus shutdown, but Remix #5 was already more than two months late before the lockdown started and the distributor lists it as cancelled.

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Zer0 Kay wrote:
Damn you for anticipating my question. I've really got to unfoe you, your information is far more valuable than my sanity when dealing with your blunt callousness. :)


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Unread postPosted: Wed May 13, 2020 2:11 pm
  

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Seto Kaiba wrote:
xunk16 wrote:
If you're courageous enough to pass the wreck that were the first run of Titan's Robotech, I'll guess you might also like Remix then.
It's been on hold for a while because one of the staff was hit by the pandemic, but there is some news starting to appear once more.

Where is that coming from? There is nothing about that, or indeed any word at all, from Titan Comics about the status of Remix. Titan Comics has indicated that a chunk of its March lineup and its April lineup are delayed due to the UK's coronavirus shutdown, but Remix #5 was already more than two months late before the lockdown started and the distributor lists it as cancelled.


Yeah, I know... I was worried for a moment there, but even with #5 cancelled (or not, depending on the source), and sometime #6, #7 and #8 were still advertise as upcoming. So I got curious and started to ask around without too much success on twitter. Eventually there was this tweet about Brenden Fletcher coming out of 22 days of sickness : https://twitter.com/brendenfletcher/sta ... 04741?s=20
A few days after there was some buzz about announcement coming soon and whatnots... However, I'm still waiting on that department. There was some other mentions about the work moving along and the comics still being in production.
I would guess sales are not as good while the pandemic is on and they might want to wait in order to print. Or maybe they are hitting some problem in the rewrite department while the team tries to get more consistent for future issues. I don't know much more.

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Unread postPosted: Wed May 13, 2020 3:14 pm
  

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xunk16 wrote:
Yeah, I know... I was worried for a moment there, but even with #5 cancelled (or not, depending on the source), and sometime #6, #7 and #8 were still advertise as upcoming.

... I know some comic shops have still advertised issues 5+ as upcoming, but that appears to be in the absence of any official word as the publication's status.

Robotech Remix #5 and up are conspicuously absent from Titan Comics' official release schedule, and Titan has not responded to any inquiries about the publication's status through their official social media channels or direct email contact. That's kind of weird in its own right, to get neither a yea nor a nay from the publisher like that. Their distributor, Diamond Comic Distributors, has issue 5 marked as cancelled on their April 2020 cancellations list. Its status is definitely uncertain at this time. Cancellation Reason 2 is a "soft" cancellation that leaves open the possibility that its publisher is possibly going to attempt to reintroduce the publication at a later date. A 3, 4, or 9 would be the real bad news... we'll see what happens WRT its status when the May 2020 list drops at the end of the month.



xunk16 wrote:
So I got curious and started to ask around without too much success on twitter. Eventually there was this tweet about Brenden Fletcher coming out of 22 days of sickness :

Well sourced, thank you.

Admittedly, if you stop to work out the dates, it becomes evident that it doesn't actually explain the absence of Remix. If April 15th was his 22nd day of being out sick, that means he fell ill back on March 24th... 47 days after Robotech Remix started missing deadlines. He'd already missed two months worth of deadlines before he got sick. It can't be blamed on the UK lockdown orders either, since that didn't start until March 23rd.

Something transpired that caused Remix to abruptly stop publication back in late January, but nobody who constitutes a primary source seems to be willing to talk about it. :|

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Zer0 Kay wrote:
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Unread postPosted: Wed May 13, 2020 5:49 pm
  

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Seto Kaiba wrote:
Let's just say that it wasn't a coincidence that Harmony Gold conceived a Robotech story about humanity being betrayed and attacked by a race of formerly helpful cybernetic life forms whose far-reaching campaign of technological sabotage left a backdoor in every state of the art weapon that rendered it useless against them save for a single capital ship whose systems hadn't had the backdoor installed yet when the dominant sci-fi series on television throughout its development was Universal Television's reboot/reimagining of Battlestar Galactica.


Dang, I was going to say that the Haydonites betrayal was done long before the remake of BSG in End of the Circle in 1989 with BSG coming out in 2004, but the backdoor and other similarities to BSG, that they switched from the McKinney confrontations... yup. They went from original content in 1989 to plagiarism in 2006. Though there is all the controversy over the various McKinneys' stuff being any good, I think it would have been better than a BSG rehash. Heck McKinney followed the RT formula better than Shadow Chronicles did. Humanity meets new enemy, humanity survives because enemies are dumb, some enemies take humanities side, combined group run into new enemies, rinse and reapeat (e.g. HvZ=HZvR=HZRvI=HZRIvHaydonites=oops time reset HvZ...)

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Unread postPosted: Thu May 14, 2020 3:19 am
  

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Zer0 Kay wrote:
Heck McKinney followed the RT formula better than Shadow Chronicles did.


Arguably, he did "follow" the RT formula better than even the anime did.
For all intents and purposes, being the only one(s) ever to produce a complete version of the story, one could even state they did in fact create the only real definitive version of the RT formula. With the old comics being the only one known to try to adhere to it since then. Remix is kinda still in a shadowzone for this, as there was too much changing, in its prequel, to tell so soon if it is a reboot or a re-imagining. It all depends on the respect of the themes.
At least the elements are still there, yet...

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Unread postPosted: Thu May 14, 2020 3:18 pm
  

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xunk16 wrote:
Zer0 Kay wrote:
Heck McKinney followed the RT formula better than Shadow Chronicles did.


Arguably, he did "follow" the RT formula better than even the anime did.
For all intents and purposes, being the only one(s) ever to produce a complete version of the story, one could even state they did in fact create the only real definitive version of the RT formula.


The original eighty-five episodes were already a complete story. And I don't think novels written as sloppily as Luceno and Daley's can be considered "definitive."

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Unread postPosted: Sat May 16, 2020 6:46 pm
  

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xunk16 wrote:
Arguably, he did "follow" the RT formula better than even the anime did.

At the risk of pointing out the obvious, that's because that "formula" wasn't actually in the Robotech TV series.

That aspect of the story was only present in Macek's failed and rejected concepts for Robotech sequels... which is how it ended up in the novels.


xunk16 wrote:
For all intents and purposes, being the only one(s) ever to produce a complete version of the story, one could even state they did in fact create the only real definitive version of the RT formula.

Sequel hook aside, the Robotech TV series was already a complete version of the story before Luceno and Daley ever published the first volume of the novelization. They just tacked one of several proposed endings for the Robotech story onto the end of their novelization because Carl Macek's inept creative direction had so totally destroyed Robotech's prospects that there was no hope at all for continued development in the foreseeable future.

Far from being a "definitive" version of the story, the vast majority of the fandom considered the novels to be "Robotech in name only" nearly twenty years before Harmony Gold made that status official. End of the Circle in particular is still widely considered to be the single worst Robotech title ever produced in the franchise's 35+ year history.


xunk16 wrote:
Remix is kinda still in a shadowzone for this, as there was too much changing, in its prequel, to tell so soon if it is a reboot or a re-imagining. It all depends on the respect of the themes.
At least the elements are still there, yet...

Remix is explicitly an alternate universe story with no bearing on the TV series setting, but it's looking like it probably got cancelled due to low sales after issue 4 back in January.



ESalter wrote:
The original eighty-five episodes were already a complete story. And I don't think novels written as sloppily as Luceno and Daley's can be considered "definitive."

Functionally, yes... though there is that obnoxious and unnecessary sequel hook at the end that caused no end of trouble.

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Unread postPosted: Sun May 17, 2020 9:42 am
  

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Seto Kaiba wrote:

xunk16 wrote:
Remix is kinda still in a shadowzone for this, as there was too much changing, in its prequel, to tell so soon if it is a reboot or a re-imagining. It all depends on the respect of the themes.
At least the elements are still there, yet...

Remix is explicitly an alternate universe story with no bearing on the TV series setting, but it's looking like it probably got cancelled due to low sales after issue 4 back in January.

https://sktchd.com/podcast/off-panel-li ... -fletcher/

starting @43:20 (using the mp3 link, the player on the page doesn't list timecode), Fletcher talks about Remix. Per the interview it sounds like a "pause" was planned between #4 and #5 for something else (what he doesn't say), but #5 is done and "will come out". (the "will come out" might be a bit beyond his ability to deliver if higher ups cancel it obviously).

This podcast is from May13th (per the website).


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Unread postPosted: Mon May 18, 2020 10:48 am
  

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ShadowLogan wrote:
starting @43:20 (using the mp3 link, the player on the page doesn't list timecode), Fletcher talks about Remix. Per the interview it sounds like a "pause" was planned between #4 and #5 for something else (what he doesn't say), but #5 is done and "will come out". (the "will come out" might be a bit beyond his ability to deliver if higher ups cancel it obviously).

Somehow, I am inclined to suspect Mr. Fletcher either doesn't know the status of his own publication or is being deliberately disingenuous.

If Remix was going on a planned hiatus, you'd think the publisher would've... y'know... announced as much? What Titan DID do was blow through two months worth of deadlines without a word to anyone, drop Remix from their release schedule entirely, let their distributor mark that and future issues as cancelled and cancel all orders for them, and then ignore every question about the title's status on their official social media. That is NOT what going on a planned hiatus looks like. :roll:

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Damn you for anticipating my question. I've really got to unfoe you, your information is far more valuable than my sanity when dealing with your blunt callousness. :)


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Unread postPosted: Mon May 18, 2020 12:57 pm
  

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Seto Kaiba wrote:
ShadowLogan wrote:
starting @43:20 (using the mp3 link, the player on the page doesn't list timecode), Fletcher talks about Remix. Per the interview it sounds like a "pause" was planned between #4 and #5 for something else (what he doesn't say), but #5 is done and "will come out". (the "will come out" might be a bit beyond his ability to deliver if higher ups cancel it obviously).

Somehow, I am inclined to suspect Mr. Fletcher either doesn't know the status of his own publication or is being deliberately disingenuous.

If Remix was going on a planned hiatus, you'd think the publisher would've... y'know... announced as much? What Titan DID do was blow through two months worth of deadlines without a word to anyone, drop Remix from their release schedule entirely, let their distributor mark that and future issues as cancelled and cancel all orders for them, and then ignore every question about the title's status on their official social media. That is NOT what going on a planned hiatus looks like. :roll:

I am not arguing here, I am just putting that out there. Personally I do not think he can make the "will come out" statement stick, ultimately he has to answer to higher powers that get to make that call.

He did say something was supposed to happen between #4 and #5 in terms of release, if COVID-19 disrupted that it could have other impacts on the schedule. It is supposed to have disrupted big players like Marvel's X-men line (discussed a bit in the podcast), so if it hit a big line like X-men odds are it also hit the relative ant that is RT. Though I do agree personally it likely will be canceled due to sales.


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Unread postPosted: Mon May 18, 2020 2:46 pm
  

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ShadowLogan wrote:
He did say something was supposed to happen between #4 and #5 in terms of release, if COVID-19 disrupted that it could have other impacts on the schedule.

We already debunked this one a few posts back... Titan's Remix series had already missed two months worth of deadlines (February's and March's) before the UK government ordered a shutdown on March 23rd. If something was supposed to happen between #4 and #5, it would/should have happened in the nearly three months separating Remix #4 being sent to the printers and London entering its COVID-19 lockdown.

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Unread postPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 10:11 am
  

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Wanderer

Joined: Sun Jun 02, 2019 6:40 am
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Seto Kaiba wrote:
ShadowLogan wrote:
He did say something was supposed to happen between #4 and #5 in terms of release, if COVID-19 disrupted that it could have other impacts on the schedule.

We already debunked this one a few posts back... Titan's Remix series had already missed two months worth of deadlines (February's and March's) before the UK government ordered a shutdown on March 23rd. If something was supposed to happen between #4 and #5, it would/should have happened in the nearly three months separating Remix #4 being sent to the printers and London entering its COVID-19 lockdown.

Except there was already reports of a coming pandemics for months before that, and the aforementioned project could have been a major tie-in, necessitating the coordination of many artists; in itself maybe provoking a delay even before the shutdown hit.
So in fact, it might be that the event series or whatever was on the verge of being sent right prior to the shutdown.

I'm sorry but "debunked" is a bit strong considering the little information we have.
The only part that's certain is that there is a problem.
Now will the economic situation become so bad that Remix is stopped? Maybe.
But I believe Fletcher when he says that #5 will come out. Even if only to recover losses without having more work to do, once the printers go back online.
Or at least that it was still on the table by the time of the interview.
There might also arise issues about legal concerns and negotiations over going "too much macross". He did state the only limit was to be set by the right holders.

And going totally on the wishful thinking side; let's say it was supposed to be a movie tie-in... they most probably are sitting on a few pages worth of development hell right now. Which could mean Sony is preventing them to reveal anything before they are ready on their side.

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Unread postPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 10:50 am
  

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Monk

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Seto Kaiba wrote:
xunk16 wrote:
Arguably, he did "follow" the RT formula better than even the anime did.

At the risk of pointing out the obvious, that's because that "formula" wasn't actually in the Robotech TV series.

That aspect of the story was only present in Macek's failed and rejected concepts for Robotech sequels... which is how it ended up in the novels.


No it wasn't. Are you saying that the story in the anime wasn't:
1. Overwhelming alien force arrives
2. Prior enemies assist against incoming enemies (world governments, Zentradi, RT Masters, Invid)
3. Humanity almost destroyed (either literally or figuratively)
4. Humanity befriended by some of alien force
5. Alien force for some reason stops short of destroying humanity
6. Rinse and repeat
The only thing that would be in question between This RT formula and McKinney's is the Big rinse and repeat that would occur after the Invid fight but the real RT formula is the one above. EoC was indeed CM's attempt to make RT in effect circular. I didn't think that was a bad idea or desire to want to be able to allow the viewer to drop anywhere in the series and enjoy it. However, the show doesn't flow that way and if you put in Sentinels it would be too jarring since chronologically it ran along side SC and NG. In order to make it work and make sense to younger audiences, they'd have to do an entirely new show where, starting after Macross it bounced back and forth within an episode showing what is going on with the Pioneer Expedition and The Masters/The New Generation like how many Sci-Fi shows jump back and forth across a galaxy because everything isn't happening aboard just one ship. I think it is more often practiced in movies than in a series episode but I know The Expanse did it. If there are others they escape me right now. But if they were able to do that and have a flow where there weren't any jarring halts, which would require something to smooth the transition between M, S/TM and S/NG, THEN I think I'd enjoy a series that ended with a loop back.

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Unread postPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 1:11 pm
  

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Knight

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xunk16 wrote:
Except there was already reports of a coming pandemics for months before that, and the aforementioned project could have been a major tie-in, necessitating the coordination of many artists; in itself maybe provoking a delay even before the shutdown hit.

... putting aside the completely ridiculous idea of such a minor title with a total circulation of only a few thousand being involved in a "major tie-in", this doesn't line up with objective reality.

Yes, there were warnings... but businesses in general didn't curtail or cease operations until compelled to do so by lockdown orders from their local/regional governments, and those companies that had the means to continue working remotely during the lockdown overwhelmingly did so. Pretty much the entire comic book industry is supremely well-equipped to work remotely and continued to operate during the lockdown. Some of the larger publishers did scale back their output once Diamond Comic Distributors suspended operations, but a lot of that content just went direct-to-digital instead.

Then, of course, there's the patently absurd idea that a veteran publisher like Titan Publishing Group stopped work on a book arbitrarily and without notice to its distributor, customers, or readers to work on a "major tie-in" for an entire calendar quarter... and all without mentioning or doing anything to promote this side project.

I don't mean to sound rude, but this argument of yours is just absurd. It requires a well-established and respected publisher with almost 40 years of experience to behave worse than a rank amateur.



xunk16 wrote:
There might also arise issues about legal concerns and negotiations over going "too much macross". He did state the only limit was to be set by the right holders.

I doubt this is based in the legal situation. If there'd been some legal action taken, or threatened, against Titan by Macross's owners in Japan there'd be a clear paper trail... and there isn't one, at last check.



xunk16 wrote:
And going totally on the wishful thinking side; let's say it was supposed to be a movie tie-in... they most probably are sitting on a few pages worth of development hell right now. Which could mean Sony is preventing them to reveal anything before they are ready on their side.

That's a bit beyond the realm of wishful thinking... that's a field trip to Bizarro World and about as high on the list of things Things That Will Not Happen as it gets.

Also, bear in mind that Titan's Remix is based almost exclusively on Macross designs... designs that Harmony Gold and its licensees cannot legally use in new film works. Whatever Titan's doing wouldn't and couldn't have any bearing on the nonexistent live-action movie for legal reasons.





Zer0 Kay wrote:
No it wasn't. Are you saying that the story in the anime wasn't:
1. Overwhelming alien force arrives
2. Prior enemies assist against incoming enemies (world governments, Zentradi, RT Masters, Invid)
3. Humanity almost destroyed (either literally or figuratively)
4. Humanity befriended by some of alien force
5. Alien force for some reason stops short of destroying humanity
6. Rinse and repeat

That's what I'm saying, yes.

Your #2 there doesn't happen in any of Robotech's three sagas. No individual national government intervenes in the war with the Zentradi in the Macross Saga, there are no Zentradi present in the Masters Saga, and there are no Masters or Zentradi in the New Generation (which also goes out of its way to imply the Zentradi are extinct). That only occurs in the failed sequels like Robotech II: the Sentinels, where the few surviving Zentradi and the Tirolians the Masters abandoned band together with humanity against the Invid. (For legal reasons, the Zentradi were all killed off in the sequels anyway.)

Your #3 arguably doesn't apply to any of the three sagas. The Zentradi don't make any effort to destroy humanity until the very end of the war, and the renegades raise hell but their goal isn't wiping humanity out it's to get off the freaking planet. The Masters never pose a serious risk to the human population until the very end of the Masters Saga, when their desperation peaks and they conclude they have to wipe humanity out or risk being wiped out by the Invid themselves. The Invid NEVER attempt to destroy humanity and are seemingly quite content to peacefully coexist with humans.

Your #4 is pretty dubious as well, unless you're exceedingly generous with the definitions of "befriend" and "some of". It's true for the Macross Saga, but in the Masters Saga Zor Prime doesn't know who or what he is for most of the story and when he does he doesn't befriend them... he just uses them to further his personal vendetta against the Masters, which has apocalyptic consequences for Earth. Bowie just sort of abducts Musica, over her protests, because he's infatuated with her. Likewise, Ariel is only able to befriend Scott's group because nobody knows she isn't human and she is later shunned when it's discovered she's an alien even though she plays a small role in helping convince the Regess to leave Earth. This is even carried forward into the post-reboot sequels, wherein many in the UEEF seem to consider aliens inherently untrustworthy and are stunned to learn that there is ONE human-alien hybrid living among them even though her family are essentially celebrities.

Your #5 is hard to apply to any of the three sagas. The Zentradi don't "stop short" of trying to destroy humanity... the hostile ones are simply all killed. Twice. (This would, however, apply to SDF Macross.) The Robotech Masters likewise only stop their attempted genocide of humanity when they're all dead. The Invid never attempted to destroy humanity in the series.

The total order arguably doesn't apply to the New Generation either.



Zer0 Kay wrote:
EoC was indeed CM's attempt to make RT in effect circular. I didn't think that was a bad idea or desire to want to be able to allow the viewer to drop anywhere in the series and enjoy it.

That wasn't quite the goal... the goal was just to have enough material to fill every weekday in a standard calendar year, so the show could run in a loop.

Mind you, the time loop idea wasn't the original one either... the first version talked about was that, in the final episode, some raw cadet would ask a future Commodore Hunter how this all began and he'd start telling the story from the beginning, cut episode 1.

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Zer0 Kay wrote:
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Unread postPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 6:07 pm
  

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Monk

Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2004 1:59 pm
Posts: 13228
Location: Snoqualmie, WA
Seto Kaiba wrote:
Zer0 Kay wrote:
No it wasn't. Are you saying that the story in the anime wasn't:
1. Overwhelming alien force arrives
2. Prior enemies assist against incoming enemies (world governments, Zentradi, RT Masters, Invid)
3. Humanity almost destroyed (either literally or figuratively)
4. Humanity befriended by some of alien force
5. Alien force for some reason stops short of destroying humanity
6. Rinse and repeat

That's what I'm saying, yes.

Your #2 there doesn't happen in any of Robotech's three sagas. No individual national government intervenes in the war with the Zentradi in the Macross Saga, there are no Zentradi present in the Masters Saga, and there are no Masters or Zentradi in the New Generation (which also goes out of its way to imply the Zentradi are extinct). That only occurs in the failed sequels like Robotech II: the Sentinels, where the few surviving Zentradi and the Tirolians the Masters abandoned band together with humanity against the Invid. (For legal reasons, the Zentradi were all killed off in the sequels anyway.)
So the UEEF wasn't formed after WW3 stopped due to the appearance of the Zor's ship in order to prepare for the coming enemy? Is the UEEF not varied government groups some of which were at war with one another? Yes there is at least one Zentradi in the Masters Saga, and could be more micronized and half breeds. Where'd NG say Z's were extinct?

Your #3 arguably doesn't apply to any of the three sagas. The Zentradi don't make any effort to destroy humanity until the very end of the war, and the renegades raise hell but their goal isn't wiping humanity out it's to get off the freaking planet. The Masters never pose a serious risk to the human population until the very end of the Masters Saga, when their desperation peaks and they conclude they have to wipe humanity out or risk being wiped out by the Invid themselves. The Invid NEVER attempt to destroy humanity and are seemingly quite content to peacefully coexist with humans.The Master Instantly pose a serious risk to the human population. With the information left to them by the intel gained from the Zentradi they knew what could come and what would happen. Risk assessed, threat presented. Definition of "pose" fullfilled.
Now they didn't directly threaten all of humanity until the end, but they did "pose a serious risk" the only way that would be a correct statement is if you're going to claim that as understatement and recognize that due to intel the risk assessment (aka posed risk is lethal, deadly, catastrophic or other term meaning lots of dead people caused by culture that isn't afraid to attempt to commit genocide just to secure hold on a fuel source. Slavery is not coexistence it is just existence, coexistence infers peaceful and enforced slavery is not peaceful, subjugation is not peaceful, dominance is not peaceful.


Your #4 is pretty dubious as well, unless you're exceedingly generous with the definitions of "befriend" and "some of". It's true for the Macross Saga, but in the Masters Saga Zor Prime doesn't know who or what he is for most of the story and when he does he doesn't befriend them... he just uses them to further his personal vendetta against the Masters, which has apocalyptic consequences for Earth. Bowie just sort of abducts Musica, over her protests, because he's infatuated with her. Likewise, Ariel is only able to befriend Scott's group because nobody knows she isn't human and she is later shunned when it's discovered she's an alien even though she plays a small role in helping convince the Regess to leave Earth. This is even carried forward into the post-reboot sequels, wherein many in the UEEF seem to consider aliens inherently untrustworthy and are stunned to learn that there is ONE human-alien hybrid living among them even though her family are essentially celebrities.
Befriend:to make friends or become friendly with; act as a friend to; help; aid Some: an unspecified number, amount, etc., as distinguished from the rest or in addition. Nope, pretty sure they are EXACT definitions. Even if she was shunned she was still a friend as far as being friendly toward. Being friends requires two directions befriending only requires one.

Your #5 is hard to apply to any of the three sagas. The Zentradi don't "stop short" of trying to destroy humanity... the hostile ones are simply all killed. Twice. (This would, however, apply to SDF Macross.) The Robotech Masters likewise only stop their attempted genocide of humanity when they're all dead. The Invid never attempted to destroy humanity in the series.
Okay okay yes. But when I said stop short I didn't mean by choice. In the formula there is always something that intervenes and stops the destruction of mankind hence the "For some reason".

The total order arguably doesn't apply to the New Generation either.
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Zer0 Kay wrote:
EoC was indeed CM's attempt to make RT in effect circular. I didn't think that was a bad idea or desire to want to be able to allow the viewer to drop anywhere in the series and enjoy it.

That wasn't quite the goal... the goal was just to have enough material to fill every weekday in a standard calendar year, so the show could run in a loop.

Mind you, the time loop idea wasn't the original one either... the first version talked about was that, in the final episode, some raw cadet would ask a future Commodore Hunter how this all began and he'd start telling the story from the beginning, cut episode 1.

_________________
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BEST IDEA EVER!!! -- The Galactus Kid

Holy crapy, you're Zer0 Kay?! --TriaxTech

Zer0 Kay is my hero. --Atramentus

The Zer0 of Kay, who started this fray,
Kept us laughing until the end. -The Fifth Business (In loving Memory of the teleport thread)


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Unread postPosted: Wed May 20, 2020 9:43 am
  

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Knight

Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2006 10:50 am
Posts: 6397
Location: WI
ZerO Kay wrote:
Yes there is at least one Zentradi in the Masters Saga, and could be more micronized and half breeds. Where'd NG say Z's were extinct?

NG dialogue in Episode #73 "Sandstorm", it is toward the end of the Episode when Scott says "...This may come as a surprise to you, but I couldn't care less whether the Invid survive or go the way of the Zentraedi. I'm not just going to roll over and play dead!"

There is no full Zentreadi present in the Masters Saga, Dana is a half-breed. There is suggestion in this saga that mutant strains of micronized zentreadi exist.

Seto wrote:
We already debunked this one a few posts back... Titan's Remix series had already missed two months worth of deadlines (February's and March's) before the UK government ordered a shutdown on March 23rd. If something was supposed to happen between #4 and #5, it would/should have happened in the nearly three months separating Remix #4 being sent to the printers and London entering its COVID-19 lockdown.


All I am saying is that OFFICIALLY there has been no public announcement/confirmation that it has been canceled. Something was also supposed to come out between #4 and #5, but we don't know what it was (or if it came out or not) because the guy did not elaborate.


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Unread postPosted: Thu May 21, 2020 10:42 am
  

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Monk

Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2004 1:59 pm
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ShadowLogan wrote:
ZerO Kay wrote:
Yes there is at least one Zentradi in the Masters Saga, and could be more micronized and half breeds. Where'd NG say Z's were extinct?

NG dialogue in Episode #73 "Sandstorm", it is toward the end of the Episode when Scott says "...This may come as a surprise to you, but I couldn't care less whether the Invid survive or go the way of the Zentraedi. I'm not just going to roll over and play dead!"

There is no full Zentreadi present in the Masters Saga, Dana is a half-breed. There is suggestion in this saga that mutant strains of micronized zentreadi exist.

Seto wrote:
We already debunked this one a few posts back... Titan's Remix series had already missed two months worth of deadlines (February's and March's) before the UK government ordered a shutdown on March 23rd. If something was supposed to happen between #4 and #5, it would/should have happened in the nearly three months separating Remix #4 being sent to the printers and London entering its COVID-19 lockdown.


All I am saying is that OFFICIALLY there has been no public announcement/confirmation that it has been canceled. Something was also supposed to come out between #4 and #5, but we don't know what it was (or if it came out or not) because the guy did not elaborate.

Doesn't matter if they're full or half or full sized or micronized, they're still Zentradi.

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BEST IDEA EVER!!! -- The Galactus Kid

Holy crapy, you're Zer0 Kay?! --TriaxTech

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