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 Post subject: Dodging Missles
Unread postPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 7:25 pm
  

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I am thinking of running a Robotech campaign, but I have not run a Palladium game in at least 10 years so I am of course brushing up on the rules.

So first off I apologize if this has been covered somewhere else and I'm sure it has, but my search option on these forums doesn't seem to allow me to search.

On page 243 of the core book (digest size) under Missile Volleys it states that a volley of 4 or more missiles can not be dodged. So as long as the attacker rolls 5 or better, he hits. But a paragraph later there are rules for dodging missiles and missile volleys and it doesn't state that it can only be a volley of 3 or 2 missiles. This seems like an odd error, or am I missing something.

If you truly can't dodge a volley of 4 or more missiles wouldn't everyone just launch 4 missiles every time? Unless of course they couldn't because they didn't have enough.

Thanks, I really appreciate any responses.


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 Post subject: Re: Dodging Missles
Unread postPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 7:49 pm
  

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Rifts® Trivia Master

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palladium just didn't repeat the ban on dodging large volleys in the later section.

as for why not.. payload and firepower plays a part too. since robotech's setting is one where the player is generally going to be facing a larger number of opponents, often without access to reloading between battles, players have to be careful not to expend all of their missiles too rapidly. at the same time, their opponents are often less well armored, and can be crippled or destroyed by a rather small number of missiles.

this is especially true of designs like the VF-1 or the Ajax, which only have a limited supply of rather large missiles to begin with. a VF-1 can carry 12 medium range missiles. each missile is powerful enough to take out a single zentreadi battlepod on its own. a VF-1 firing volleys of 4 can utterly obliterate it's target, but can only do it three times. firing single missiles, the pod may have a (small) chance to escape, but the fighter can potentially destroy up to 12 enemies. the same even goes for missile heavy units like the Alpha and Beta. an Alpha has 60 missiles, you only need about 2 to kill the common invid types. you can fire 4 sure, but that is possibly overkill.. and means you can only take out 15 enemies instead of up to 30. and with the Alpha your also looking at a setting with no ready supply of reloads for the missiles.. those 60 might be all you have for the next dozen battles.

it is also worth noting that while you cannot dodge volleys of 4 or more, there are other ways to protect yourself from them. you can attempt to use flares/chaff to spoof them and make them miss. you can attempt to shoot them down (and larger volleys are just as easy to shoot down as single missiles). you can attempt to roll with impact and reduce the damage taken by half. and you can always use your mecha's arms to absorb the hit (which is likely to destroy your arms but leaves you alive)

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 Post subject: Re: Dodging Missles
Unread postPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 9:07 pm
  

Hero

Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2013 12:21 am
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glitterboy is mostly correct.
actually depending on the specific configuration a VF-1 veritech can range from as few as 6 long range missiles, to as much as 30 short range missiles (wing mounted) or 72 minimissiles
if you use the VWS system pods from the 1st edition book 8 (strike force) pg 41 and 42
as mentioned a vf-1 veritech has 2 or 3 hardpoints under each wing. in addition there are some "upgraded" VF-1 veritech configurations. The Vf-1 series has 4 sub models A, J, D, and S the main difference between the sub models is the head, which has A=1, J=2, S=4, and D =2 weapons mounted on the head, in addition the D is a dedicated trainer so has 2 pilot seats instead of the normal 1.
then there are the various "armor" pack upgrades
there is the armored veritech which locks it in battloid mode until the armor is jettisoned, which provides additional armor, and 12 short range missiles on each shoulder (24 total) 3 short range missiles on each forearm (6) 3 short range missiles on each hip, (6) leg mounted short range missiles 3 pods per leg 4 missiles per pod, total of counting both legs (24), and 2 chest launchers with 5 each (10) so a grand total of 70 short range missiles.

then there is the "super" upgrade kit which can still transform, ads 2 short range missiles in a pod on each arm, and 2 medium range pods mounted on the back for 40 medium range missiles.

but most of the enemies the various earth forces fight are typically pretty fragile so full 4+ salvoes of missiles are usually overkill to the point of being pretty wasteful.

of course if you watch the "next generation" Anime with missile spammer Scott Bernard, he doesn't seem to understand the concept of restraint, and used an entire load (60) short range missiles on 1 invid shock trooper


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 Post subject: Re: Dodging Missles
Unread postPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 9:18 pm
  

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Rifts® Trivia Master

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by the book the VF-1 cannot carry short range missiles.
just 2 longrange, 3 medium range, a pod of 15 mini's, or 2,500lbs of bombs per hardpoint, for a total of 4 LRM's, 12 MRM's, 60 mini's, or 10,000lbs of bombs.. or various combinations thereof.

i focused on the MRm's because that is the typical anti-mecha loadout seen in the show. the LRM's are used mainly for anti-ship use, and we do not see the minimissile pods in the show, but they are liekly used much like the Hydra-70 rocket pods of real life, for destroying lightly armored ground targets and fixed emplacements.

_________________
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* All fantasy should have a solid base in reality.
* Good sense about trivialities is better than nonsense about things that matter.

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 Post subject: Re: Dodging Missles
Unread postPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 2:09 pm
  

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Knight

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Comment: Don't waste your time gloating over a wounded enemy. Pull the damn trigger.
VF-1 ground attack with mini's and bombs. I'm okay with this. The GU-11 is also a proper tank shredder.

Did they take out the rule about "evasive maneuvers" from the pilot skill? It let you dodge large and even multiple volleys of missiles so long as you gave up your entire melee round for evasion and succeeded on a penalized pilot roll.

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Y'all seem to assume that Palladium books are written with the same exacting precision with which they are analyzed. I think that is... ambitious.

Talk from the Edge: Operation Dead Lift, Operation Reload, Operation Human Devil, Operation Handshake, Operation Windfall 1, Operation Windfall 2, Operation Sniper Wolf, Operation Natural 20


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 Post subject: Re: Dodging Missles
Unread postPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 5:32 pm
  

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Alrik Vas wrote:
VF-1 ground attack with mini's and bombs. I'm okay with this. The GU-11 is also a proper tank shredder.

Did they take out the rule about "evasive maneuvers" from the pilot skill? It let you dodge large and even multiple volleys of missiles so long as you gave up your entire melee round for evasion and succeeded on a penalized pilot roll.


I have been trying to find the rules for flares/chaffs or evasive maneuvers and I can't find it. If anyone has page numbers from the main book that has these rules, that would be great. (manga or full size, I have both)


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 Post subject: Re: Dodging Missles
Unread postPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 5:41 pm
  

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Knight

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Comment: Don't waste your time gloating over a wounded enemy. Pull the damn trigger.
Probably didn't survive the port from 1st Edition. ...or I'm thinking of rules from N&SS, TMNT Guide to the Galaxy, any other random Palladiumness.

Sorry if that's the case. :/

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Mark Hall wrote:
Y'all seem to assume that Palladium books are written with the same exacting precision with which they are analyzed. I think that is... ambitious.

Talk from the Edge: Operation Dead Lift, Operation Reload, Operation Human Devil, Operation Handshake, Operation Windfall 1, Operation Windfall 2, Operation Sniper Wolf, Operation Natural 20


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 Post subject: Re: Dodging Missles
Unread postPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 6:23 pm
  

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Knight

Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2006 10:50 am
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MikeM wrote:
Alrik Vas wrote:
VF-1 ground attack with mini's and bombs. I'm okay with this. The GU-11 is also a proper tank shredder.

Did they take out the rule about "evasive maneuvers" from the pilot skill? It let you dodge large and even multiple volleys of missiles so long as you gave up your entire melee round for evasion and succeeded on a penalized pilot roll.


I have been trying to find the rules for flares/chaffs or evasive maneuvers and I can't find it. If anyone has page numbers from the main book that has these rules, that would be great. (manga or full size, I have both)

Piloting Skill Maneuvers currently are limited to ground vehicles in the NG SB pg36-41. If you want the aerial stuff you'll have to port it from 1E Robotech, Macross 2, or another line that uses them. For whatever reason, Rifts has never done that stuff, and 2E RT seems to be an edited copy and paste job of Rifts in terms of the rules.

Chaff seems to work on a percentage basis (look in the Alpha or Beta Veritech standard equipment, probably exists elsewhere to in the TRM & TMS SBs), so must be an either or situation. Some percent of the time you confuse the missiles which likely cause them to miss and some percent of the time the missiles aren't confused. This is the same as in Rifts (and IINM other PB game lines) when they appear.


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 Post subject: Re: Dodging Missles
Unread postPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 6:38 pm
  

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Knight

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Comment: Don't waste your time gloating over a wounded enemy. Pull the damn trigger.
Yeah, the print was from the NGR book from Rifts, i believe. For Chaff anyway.

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Mark Hall wrote:
Y'all seem to assume that Palladium books are written with the same exacting precision with which they are analyzed. I think that is... ambitious.

Talk from the Edge: Operation Dead Lift, Operation Reload, Operation Human Devil, Operation Handshake, Operation Windfall 1, Operation Windfall 2, Operation Sniper Wolf, Operation Natural 20


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 Post subject: Re: Dodging Missles
Unread postPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2017 2:42 pm
  

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Wanderer

Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2017 12:17 am
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Alrik Vas wrote:
Did they take out the rule about "evasive maneuvers" from the pilot skill? It let you dodge large and even multiple volleys of missiles so long as you gave up your entire melee round for evasion and succeeded on a penalized pilot roll.


The Evasive Action rule you mention is included in my copy of Heroes Unlimited (1st Ed.) but I don't see it in the Robotech or Shadow Chronicles books. Shadow Chronicles (manga version) doesn't have Evasive Action (or any example vehicle pilot skill use for that matter) but Chaff rules are on p. 99.


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 Post subject: Re: Dodging Missles
Unread postPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2019 6:16 am
  

D-Bee

Joined: Sun Nov 10, 2019 6:11 am
Posts: 1
Piloting Skill Maneuvers currently are limited to ground vehicles in the NG SB pg36-41. If you want the aerial stuff you'll have to port it from 1E Robotech, Macross 2, or another line that uses them. For whatever reason, Rifts has never done that stuff, and 2E RT seems to be an edited copy and paste job of Rifts in terms of the rules.
I Agreee


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