Just got the RT: EFM...

[drewkitty ~..~]

This is a hot wash assessment of the books having not had time to do much more then skim the book as a whole. However, there are a few things that stood out.

Char Creation: yep, just like the ed1 RT this book has a char creation section but thankfully it is short and not including a skills section. However, while it talks about what the attributes are briefly and gives the averages of attribute scores, it does not go the short step of saying what the normal rolls Are. And Doesn't even say that the averages they state are for humans.
They did include the Quick Char creation table

Marine OCC's: They seam to be fully fleshed out, along with a full range of MOS's

Alien Species...
Character Classes need a skills list in them. And PB did it's typical of listing Races as RCCs.
Garudan…No skills and has a list of Available OCC's.
Karbarran Bear Man….no Skills and available OCC's……though what is listed in the Av. OCC's is just talk about what males typically take. What about the Karbarran Bear Women???? are they stay at home moms?
good news….there is a Actual KBM RCC listed the Combat Laborer RCC.
Perytonian……nice amount of flavor text creating a background. Base SDC is set as per OCC???? Select a OCC??? Why even call it an RCC if you put in it that the char has to take a Char Class?
Wonder of wonders another Real RCC, the Perytonian Energy Wizard RCC……but why does the section title say it is a OCC?
Add in an abbreviated PB PPE spells list, w/o being divided into levels. Yawn. Where are the setting specific spells? Even NB had a few Setting specific spells. Like Explode Protoculture or detect PC, or sense Zentradie or Tirolians.
Praxian….no Skills and lists available OCC's.
A Praxian OCC….errr….RCC!!!! Attribute rolls and skills so a real RCC.
Spherian……Another race….not complaining about it, it does have racial skills even if it does not have it's own skill set like Character Classes.
Tirolians…..Should be called Natural Tirolians or Abandoned Tirolians, for it redefines the Tirolians that were left behind by the Masters when they abandoned them along with the planet, and that sector of the galaxy.
there is a Tirolian RCC…..yep a racial restricted char class. This is a nice CC (Character Class) with a few MOS's available to it.
Zentradie….This seams to be a re-listing of the Zent attribute scores. I do like how they specifically say by the Infantry stats that they are only males.

Mecha
Starts off re-listing some of the mecha in the RT CoreBook TSC.
CVR-1…I like the helmet options.
Ground cyclones
VR-011….looks like an 'Up-Armored' cyclone
VR-015….funky….but combining a cyclone and a hovercycle??? *shrugs it off as a M-Pand.* Might be a good cyclone for scouting missions or crossing large bodies of water or other cataracts.
VR-017….very much M-Pand. I will have to compare it to the CVR-3 cyclones to see which has a better payloads.
CBA-07….a dedicated PA…..what I imagine is that this is used in "ninja raids" where stealth is more the point then firepower. What I would like to see is someone make a MA Char and pair it up with this PA.

Space Cyclones.. ahhhgggg The art work is horrible…..for us who know about what a off center thrust does to a object….. Not as obvious as say a Ground Flower firework, but it's there. They should of been designed to look more like Kanada's bike from Akira then a standard motorcycle.
CVR-2….looks like a armored spacesuit
VR-021….looks what a 10 year old would draw for a space motorcycle. Note….the technical aspects of the drawing is good. It was how it was conceptualized.
Front Shocks????? Exposed bike Motor????
PA mode…thrusters are are as too high on the PA as they are too low when they are as a bike. otherwise it looks good. Hidden Thrusters in the front of the boots…groans…..
VR-24….might as well copy and paste from the VR-021…..only omitting the hidden thrusters text.

The Destroides!!!!!! yahhhhhhh!!!!!!!
Tomahawk….AWesome, love the artwork, love that they gave it a sword arm. The shoulders are reminiscent of Alphas. Has the 360 waist
Defender….the lasers have about Half the Range as the Tomahawk's Part. Beam???? WT….the artwork is cool even if the legs, shoulders and head look alpha like. Having said that this is a support Mecha. A mobile Anti-Aircraft platform.
Phalanx….I do like the artwork even if is does look much like a Condor with the arms replaced with missile launchers.
I do note that he Defender and the Phalanx use the same leg chassis.
Spartan….a fighter Mecha…..looks to be an alpha made into a non-T mecha with two huge canon on it's back, and a mini-cannon on it's chest. The artwork is awesomely detailed.

Monster….err…. it doesn't have the same …..ahh….*shakes head*. I don't like that it is a humanoid mecha. Sorry but to me it does not have the same coolness as the mac-1 or the VB-6 König Monster.

Valiant….looks like the same core styling as the VR-024 but writ large to mecha size. What this mecha make me think of when looking at the artwork is the AV-98 "Ingram" - Patlabor. (I think it is mainly the head and waist that is kicking on the Ingram circuits.)
Golem….technically good artwork but looks like a alpha with a CVR-1 head. Is this a PA or Bot? If it's a PA…..the arms are too far from the head, the helmet is too large to be a CVR-1 helmet, and the legs…*shakes head* the dimensions in the artwork does not work for it to be a PA. And the torso is too small for a pilot's compartment…even if the pilot's head sticks out of the bot.

New Zent mecha…. I do like how both are based on the old Officer Battle Pod.
Infantry BP….restyled OBP with alpha arms.
Officer's BP…… This has all the coolness that didn't go into the Mk. VII Monster.

Combat Vehicles
Daniel…….don't like it….it looks like it was designed ……copy/paste.
Archon….is it a APC or hover tank?


Equipment
List of available/non-available equipment to the marines from the other books by name but not stats.
Alien Weapons.. .*nods*

Invid
Invid Scientist
Inorganics re-listed
a new inorganic & some new mecha
Invid Regent stats & his Armor.

A non-PB ad??


Over all I will guess 6 out of 10 alphas.

[Alpha 11]

I also enjoyed this book.

[Seto Kaiba]

Alien Species...
Character Classes need a skills list in them. And PB did it's typical of listing Races as RCCs.

Well, to be fair... the rather flat and unsatisfying RCCs aren't entirely Palladium's fault. Harmony Gold summarily disowned each and every Robotech title that provided any real details of the Sentinels aliens, so Palladium's writers didn't have anything that they could really go on.

(Not that they'd have been much better off if Harmony Gold hadn't disowned it all... the Sentinels aliens were pretty useless in the stories that did get told, which is why they needed to be rescued by humans in the first place. When it's a "planet of hats" story and the local aliens are technical pacifists, primitives, or starry-eyed mystics, it's naturally the humans who'll end up doing all of the heavy lifting.)

Space Cyclones.. ahhhgggg The art work is horrible…..for us who know about what a off center thrust does to a object….. Not as obvious as say a Ground Flower firework, but it's there. They should of been designed to look more like Kanada's bike from Akira then a standard motorcycle.

Yeah... well, let's just say that it probably wasn't a fantastic idea to appropriate art and concepts the creators of MOSPEADA threw out as too unsuitable or too unpolished to include in the show.

Front Shocks????? Exposed bike Motor????

Not leaping to their defense or anything, but all Ride Armors/Cyclones have front shocks and an exposed engine.

The Destroides!!!!!! yahhhhhhh!!!!!!!
Tomahawk….AWesome, love the artwork, love that they gave it a sword arm. The shoulders are reminiscent of Alphas. Has the 360 waist
Defender….the lasers have about Half the Range as the Tomahawk's Part. Beam???? WT….the artwork is cool even if the legs, shoulders and head look alpha like. Having said that this is a support Mecha. A mobile Anti-Aircraft platform.
Phalanx….I do like the artwork even if is does look much like a Condor with the arms replaced with missile launchers.
I do note that he Defender and the Phalanx use the same leg chassis.
Spartan….a fighter Mecha…..looks to be an alpha made into a non-T mecha with two huge canon on it's back, and a mini-cannon on it's chest. The artwork is awesomely detailed.

They look like they're meant to be IMUs, IMO... it's not s'much a case of "looks like" borrowed parts, they very clearly ARE made of borrowed parts.

Valiant….looks like the same core styling as the VR-024 but writ large to mecha size. What this mecha make me think of when looking at the artwork is the AV-98 "Ingram" - Patlabor. (I think it is mainly the head and waist that is kicking on the Ingram circuits.)

They stuck a different head on one of the "primitive/bulky powered suit" concepts from very early development.



Golem….technically good artwork but looks like a alpha with a CVR-1 head. Is this a PA or Bot? If it's a PA…..the arms are too far from the head, the helmet is too large to be a CVR-1 helmet, and the legs…*shakes head* the dimensions in the artwork does not work for it to be a PA. And the torso is too small for a pilot's compartment…even if the pilot's head sticks out of the bot. [/quote]
"The engineering equivalent of a mad lib" is how my players described it when they saw it.

[Pouncer]

When it comes to the new RCC's, to me, it looks like they're being redesigned into basic alien templates rather than full classes on their own (at least some of them), to have OCC's added atop the base to fill the character out.

I also really like most of the mecha, though I make a few tweaks to the destroids to make them beefier.

-POUNCER

[ShadowLogan]

They look like they're meant to be IMUs, IMO... it's not s'much a case of "looks like" borrowed parts, they very clearly ARE made of borrowed parts.

However there is a precedent in looking "like borrowed parts" went into them by the UEDF forces for their hardware:
-R-04 series Destroids are supposed to use a common lower chassis IINM, no reason the UEDF later can't apply the concept
-the VEF-1 looks like it borrowed the sensor disk from a Cat's Eye (which is in fact where it came from)
-and the Cat's Eye is bluntly stated to borrow the VF-1 engines for versions that operate in space
-the VHT-1 and VHT-2 are both derived from the same testbed article
-the Sylphid's two models (3 in animation) look like they borrowed main section and cobbled on new outer-wing parts, the underside looks like it has a recessed VF-1J type head
-the UEDF: ASC's M22xx series
-the UEDF: ASC's Fenris and Manticore PA look like they borrow parts (slight size difference)
-the AJP-01 (Battloid jump pack in Masters SB) clearly looks like it borrowed parts from the VFH-10 AGAC
-according to the IMU rules (pg41 NG SB) the ASC's battloid limbs "were designed to be easily interchangeable and replaceable parts", so externally they might not look the same, but internally they are
-the UEDF: ASC's Falcon II Fighterjet's engine nozzles look like they came from the VF-1
-the Condor in several locations does look like it borrowed parts from the Alpha (never mind the official size difference), and if the OSM's "super condor" concept is real and in the animation as some claim (as parts), we also know the MBR-10/12 Condor borrowed heavily from the VF-X-5 program (I know its revamped, but that still means you end up with the "looks like" angle)
-MR-40 (NG SB pg53) and the Silverback (main book) looks (and is stated) to use Cyclone Parts, and even the Cyclones look to re-use parts in areas
-the UEEF's Bioroid Interceptor (which is in fact what they did)
-the Alpha (NG) and Carpenter's fighter (TRM) in the animation look to be related
-some of the Alpha wreckage at Point K are not standard H/I/Z or S/X models or even the Drone in Ep85 (some might be AE or battle damage I admit)
-might even consider each Veritech's various letter models a case of "looks like" so that means VF-1, VF-6 and the VF-7/9 if we don't treat the instances as "family" members
-Sentinels OVA VF-X-7 and VF-X-9 Beta Fighters since they are separate designs
-the SDF-3's exo-skeletal hull looks like a pre-Terran-restoration of the SDF-1 (or is supposed to)
-we can see ships in NG stills as evolutionary variants of the ship(s) later used
-or the UEEF's "modular" weapons if we don't consider them modular, not to mention to in the RPG-verse some of the infantry weapons of the ASC are modified shells of each other.

Golem….technically good artwork but looks like a alpha with a CVR-1 head. Is this a PA or Bot? If it's a PA…..the arms are too far from the head, the helmet is too large to be a CVR-1 helmet, and the legs…*shakes head* the dimensions in the artwork does not work for it to be a PA. And the torso is too small for a pilot's compartment…even if the pilot's head sticks out of the bot.

what are the dimensions? (don't have the book) I would also remind you that Palladium considers any 'bot under ~12ft IIRC to be a PA.

[drewkitty ~..~]

When it comes to the new RCC's, to me, it looks like they're being redesigned into basic alien templates rather than full classes on their own (at least some of them), to have OCC's added atop the base to fill the character out.

I also really like most of the mecha, though I make a few tweaks to the destroids to make them beefier.

-POUNCER

I don't think you are getting my point of my complaints about the Alien races.

The RCC label should be reserved for the actual RCC's. Using the label for pure Race text just confuse things. In RUE Kevin said they wanted to Simplify things to make things more accessible to players.

Aspects of RCC's: They ether have both the attribute rolls, natural abilities and a skills set that the members of the race has to have/take, or is a Character Class racially restricted to a single race. See simple. And covers all the Character Classes that can be reasonably called RCCs.

Aspects of Races: they have the attribute rolls & natural abilities, and sometimes Available OCC's. Even simpler.

[Seto Kaiba]

-R-04 series Destroids are supposed to use a common lower chassis IINM, no reason the UEDF later can't apply the concept

The Series 04 Destroids were developed off a common platform... that's not quite the same thing as being haphazardly put together from parts from multiple, different mecha designs developed as much as a decade apart. A lot of your examples are of this type... and therefore not examples of what I'm talking about.

Similarly, I'm not gonna address the attempts to make something out of off-model animation and rejected fan-theories, because that isn't what I'm talking about either and I don't care about what-ifs.

-the VEF-1 looks like it borrowed the sensor disk from a Cat's Eye (which is in fact where it came from)

That's not accurate... the Macross Saga source book says that the VEF-1 is equipped with a radome similar to the ES-11's, not that it is the same one. (manga size, pg71, last sentence of 2nd paragraph in right column)

It'd be rather odd if they did, given that the RPG's stats for the Cat's Eye makes it considerably larger than a VF-1... the VEF-1's radar is only 5-6m wide, the one on the Cat's Eye must be closer to 10-12m. (OSM-ly, they're two different radars as well.) At those sizes you'd be able to park a VF-1 on the Cat's Eye's radome.

-the UEDF: ASC's Fenris and Manticore PA look like they borrow parts (slight size difference)

The Masters Saga source book hints, in the shared stats, that the ASC's powered armor and battloids are in the same situation as the Destroids... not a later design borrowing parts from an existing one, but a family of designs developed at the same time with shared parts for ease of maintenance. That's literally the justification given for why there aren't mecha-specific MECT bonuses... they're all very similar in design and operation. That's why they're treated as interchangeable by the IMU rules... because they were designed off a common platform at the same time.

-the AJP-01 (Battloid jump pack in Masters SB) clearly looks like it borrowed parts from the VFH-10 AGAC

That's not a mecha made piecemeal out of borrowed parts, that's an add-on that may have borrowed ONE part. Closer than your other examples tho.

-the Condor in several locations does look like it borrowed parts from the Alpha (never mind the official size difference), and if the OSM's "super condor" concept is real and in the animation as some claim (as parts), we also know the MBR-10/12 Condor borrowed heavily from the VF-X-5 program (I know its revamped, but that still means you end up with the "looks like" angle)

Dunno why they made them difference sizes in the RPG, because they're the same size in the OSM. Of course, the reason for that is simply that the Legioss (RT: Alpha) was developed from the Condor, which was a testbed for humanity's combat robot technology. It looks similar because there's a shared, entirely intentional design lineage.

-Sentinels OVA VF-X-7 and VF-X-9 Beta Fighters since they are separate designs

*shakes head* That's the same aircraft, just had a number change between prototype phases... like the real-world YF-17 and F/A-18.

-the SDF-3's exo-skeletal hull looks like a pre-Terran-restoration of the SDF-1 (or is supposed to)

It's explicitly said to be trying to look like a Zentradi ship, not Zor's battlefortress.

what are the dimensions? (don't have the book) I would also remind you that Palladium considers any 'bot under ~12ft IIRC to be a PA.

It's a 5.1m tall (16 3/4 feet) robot that looks to be cobbled together from a Cyclone helmet, Alpha arms and legs, a VR-041's forearm shield, the "Orguss Valkyrie" gun arm, and the torso of the much larger Valiant battloid. None of the parts work, scale-wise.

[drewkitty ~..~]

Golem….technically good artwork but looks like a alpha with a CVR-1 head. Is this a PA or Bot? If it's a PA…..the arms are too far from the head, the helmet is too large to be a CVR-1 helmet, and the legs…*shakes head* the dimensions in the artwork does not work for it to be a PA. And the torso is too small for a pilot's compartment…even if the pilot's head sticks out of the bot.

The Golem is stat'ed out as 17 feet tall.

[ShadowLogan]

Dunno why they made them difference sizes in the RPG, because they're the same size in the OSM. Of course, the reason for that is simply that the Legioss (RT: Alpha) was developed from the Condor, which was a testbed for humanity's combat robot technology. It looks similar because there's a shared, entirely intentional design lineage.

I'm aware of the OSM lineage, but that doesn't work for RT any more given the way the VF timeline has been constructed using the 2E RPG and possibly even for other sources given the desire to shoe horn in the Alpha/Beta designs earlier than they need to be instead of going with something else as the "main" fighter(s).

*shakes head* That's the same aircraft, just had a number change between prototype phases... like the real-world YF-17 and F/A-18.

True, but we know that updated/matured technology is what allowed the VF-X-9 to happen based on the VF-X-7 ("The X-7 was now found to be viable due to technological advancements and was put into testing in early 2036."-pg112 Manga TSC, even the old Infopedia says there are "signficant updates and upgrades"). Some of the examples I listed fall into the POV angle, and some may or may not consider them as being an example of "looks like" they are reusing parts for various reasons I do not dispute that.

It's explicitly said to be trying to look like a Zentradi ship, not Zor's battlefortress.

I agree it was to look like a Zentreadi ship, but there are no known Zentreadi vessels in RT that match the profile with the twin side-by-side booms, or the two massive side turret arms. Or the reddish hull (Zentreadi are known to be green/gray and purple/gray, with the Masters using reddish). About the only thing "Zentreadi" about the design is the soft curve/organic lines instead of the hard edge look we see in the retrofit (and common to NG designs).

It's a 5.1m tall (16 3/4 feet) robot that looks to be cobbled together from a Cyclone helmet, Alpha arms and legs, a VR-041's forearm shield, the "Orguss Valkyrie" gun arm, and the torso of the much larger Valiant battloid. None of the parts work, scale-wise.

Chuck Walton has lineart up form UEEF Marines on Deviant Art, I'm looking at it and I can even see Condor specific parts (from the animation, series and LLA OVA, that are not in comic/RPG depictions) in the back. I don't think I'd say the torso looks like it was taken from the Valiant (that he has up there), it looks more like it was derived from the condor in the upper region mostly w/cyclone elements thrown in and in the lower it almost looks like a cyclone. (Very different than the Imai file depiction on pg74 as far as the lines go, though you can see it provided the basic skeletal layout)

This does bring up a very important point concerning a lot the UEEF Marines SB mecha designs: WHAT ARE WE ACTUALLY LOOKING AT? Are we actually looking at the actual parts from various known hardware, or are we looking at parts that resemble actual parts from known hardware? And is the answer always going to be the same? We know from the official RPG size of the Condor that Alpha-esque parts are made for a ~42ft battloid, even though they look like they come from the ~30ft tall Alpha battloid. That seems to point toward the UEEF (and possibly other UEDF factions) toward having parts that resemble each other, but are not the same regardless of scale. That doesn't mean that every instance is a "look a like", since we know there are cases where they did reuse parts in mecha developed years apart (Silverback, Cyclones, and MR-40 for ex). So we can't jump to the conclusion that the depicted parts are re-used, when they could be inspired/coincidence to look the same.

The Golem is stat'ed out as 17 feet tall.

The width is at 9ft on Chuck Walton's Deviant Art page, which is more than enough room for a cockpit in the upper torso for a Robot vehicle given the Bioroids width isn't much different (9.1ft for the UEEF model), the Logan has a 10ft battloid width and it has a roomy cockpit at ~18ft tall, the VHT-2 is 16ft tall and 9ft wide. So there is enough room for a cockpit if we view the mecha as a battloid/robot and not a power armor (which by Palladium's classification for size it would be).

If you find the size an issue: the Golem might have a "size" requirement for its pilots not to exceed a certain height (Astronauts and Cosmonauts have to fall w/n a certain height range).

[glitterboy2098]

This does bring up a very important point concerning a lot the UEEF Marines SB mecha designs: WHAT ARE WE ACTUALLY LOOKING AT? Are we actually looking at the actual parts from various known hardware, or are we looking at parts that resemble actual parts from known hardware? And is the answer always going to be the same? We know from the official RPG size of the Condor that Alpha-esque parts are made for a ~42ft battloid, even though they look like they come from the ~30ft tall Alpha battloid. That seems to point toward the UEEF (and possibly other UEDF factions) toward having parts that resemble each other, but are not the same regardless of scale. That doesn't mean that every instance is a "look a like", since we know there are cases where they did reuse parts in mecha developed years apart (Silverback, Cyclones, and MR-40 for ex). So we can't jump to the conclusion that the depicted parts are re-used, when they could be inspired/coincidence to look the same.

i would assume that the situation is rather like the F-16 vs F-2 vs F-CK-1 vs KAI T-50
they are each a different size and have different but related appearances. they share a lot of internal parts in common, but are totally separate designs. even from other designs they resemble. you can't build a F-CK-1 by bolting together F-16 and F/A-18 airframe parts, even if it looks like a blend of the two. though you could probably share a lot of the avionics hardware, fuel lines, etc.

i would assume that the UEEF design teams shared what internal parts they could (avionics, motors, minor structural parts, etc) to reduce the amount of manufacturing required, and as a result the same aesthetic that existed in the Condor and early VF/A-6 alpha models (which were also in development at the time, likely by related if not the same design teams) carried over. could also be an aspect of "know your customer", where they intentionally shared visual elements because they knew that the UEEF liked those.

[Seto Kaiba]

I'm aware of the OSM lineage, but that doesn't work for RT any more given the way the VF timeline has been constructed using the 2E RPG and possibly even for other sources given the desire to shoe horn in the Alpha/Beta designs earlier than they need to be instead of going with something else as the "main" fighter(s).

The RPG's deviations from canon cause all kinds of problems, but either way there wasn't really a good reason to change the size of the Condor.

True, but we know that updated/matured technology is what allowed the VF-X-9 to happen based on the VF-X-7 ("The X-7 was now found to be viable due to technological advancements and was put into testing in early 2036.

Still not an example of what I'm talking about... that's just further development of the same aircraft.

I agree it was to look like a Zentreadi ship, but there are no known Zentreadi vessels in RT that match the profile with the twin side-by-side booms, or the two massive side turret arms.

As the point was to be incognito, your wild guess that it was disguised as a pre-retrofit Zor's battlefortress makes no sense.

It's a 5.1m tall (16 3/4 feet) robot that looks to be cobbled together from a Cyclone helmet, Alpha arms and legs, a VR-041's forearm shield, the "Orguss Valkyrie" gun arm, and the torso of the much larger Valiant battloid. None of the parts work, scale-wise.

Chuck Walton has lineart up form UEEF Marines on Deviant Art, I'm looking at it and I can even see Condor specific parts (from the animation, series and LLA OVA, that are not in comic/RPG depictions) in the back.

Um... where, in that quote, did I say the Condor was involved? (For the record, the answer is "Nowhere".)

I don't think I'd say the torso looks like it was taken from the Valiant (that he has up there), [...]

Look at the backpack. It's the same configuration as the Valiant's.

This does bring up a very important point concerning a lot the UEEF Marines SB mecha designs: WHAT ARE WE ACTUALLY LOOKING AT? Are we actually looking at the actual parts from various known hardware, or are we looking at parts that resemble actual parts from known hardware?

That's my main issue with it... these don't look like purpose-built mecha or even intentional designs. They look for all the world like IMUs, cobbled together out of bits and pieces of existing systems. What's more, there are parts in there that clearly don't belong to the time period, like the Auroran/AGACs heads that were borrowed. All in all, it just looks bad.

[eliakon]

This does bring up a very important point concerning a lot the UEEF Marines SB mecha designs: WHAT ARE WE ACTUALLY LOOKING AT? Are we actually looking at the actual parts from various known hardware, or are we looking at parts that resemble actual parts from known hardware? And is the answer always going to be the same? We know from the official RPG size of the Condor that Alpha-esque parts are made for a ~42ft battloid, even though they look like they come from the ~30ft tall Alpha battloid. That seems to point toward the UEEF (and possibly other UEDF factions) toward having parts that resemble each other, but are not the same regardless of scale. That doesn't mean that every instance is a "look a like", since we know there are cases where they did reuse parts in mecha developed years apart (Silverback, Cyclones, and MR-40 for ex). So we can't jump to the conclusion that the depicted parts are re-used, when they could be inspired/coincidence to look the same.

i would assume that the situation is rather like the F-16 vs F-2 vs F-CK-1 vs KAI T-50
they are each a different size and have different but related appearances. they share a lot of internal parts in common, but are totally separate designs. even from other designs they resemble. you can't build a F-CK-1 by bolting together F-16 and F/A-18 airframe parts, even if it looks like a blend of the two. though you could probably share a lot of the avionics hardware, fuel lines, etc.

i would assume that the UEEF design teams shared what internal parts they could (avionics, motors, minor structural parts, etc) to reduce the amount of manufacturing required, and as a result the same aesthetic that existed in the Condor and early VF/A-6 alpha models (which were also in development at the time, likely by related if not the same design teams) carried over. could also be an aspect of "know your customer", where they intentionally shared visual elements because they knew that the UEEF liked those.

That is an interesting notion I had not thought of, but it makes a lot of sense. Especially the 'know your customer' bit, where themes are kept because they are already known to work and so no one has to 'reinvent the wheel' so to speak.

[ShadowLogan]

As the point was to be incognito, your wild guess that it was disguised as a pre-retrofit Zor's battlefortress makes no sense.

It makes no sense to disguise yourself as a Zentreadi ship of unknown/rare type either. Zor's battlefortress could be a stock ship modified for his purposes, in which case it makes more sense to look like his ship.

Um... where, in that quote, did I say the Condor was involved? (For the record, the answer is "Nowhere".)

I AM saying that Golem looks like it has Condor elements involved in the design IMHO, not you. I don't really see the Valiant Battloid in the design either as I said.

Look at the backpack. It's the same configuration as the Valiant's.

The backpack is clearly from the Condor as seen in the Ep71/LLA. While all 3 have backpacks, the Valiant's is of a different make and type in several areas notably the extent the nozzles extend outward and the number of "control surfaces" (Valiant has one on top and one to side, Golem only has one on top), even the shape of the booster is different between the two. The Golem's though does bare a stronger resemblance to Ep71 still and LLA.

That's my main issue with it... these don't look like purpose-built mecha or even intentional designs. They look for all the world like IMUs, cobbled together out of bits and pieces of existing systems. What's more, there are parts in there that clearly don't belong to the time period, like the Auroran/AGACs heads that were borrowed. All in all, it just looks bad.

Just because a platform look like an IMU does not mean it can not be purpose-built intentional designs. Case in point: Silverback and MR-40 share Cyclone Parts but aren't IMUs, the same goes for the UEEF Bioroid Interceptor, R-04 TMS Destroids. Then you have the looks-like-but-isn't parts like on the Alpha and Condor, potentially the ASC's AJP-01 and AGACs (depending on when the AJP-01 was designed, the current AGACs design is a mid 20s design so the it might have "borrowed from the AJP-01).

All of the UEEF versions of the TMS named destroids could be considered to be non-transformable variants of the Alpha or Bet. We know the UEEF has derived at least one nt-battloid design from a Veritech, there is no reason they could not do more.

Now the Zentreadi Destroids are an issue to some extent, but there is no reason they could not import technology from other programs, even ones in development, as a way to mature the technology quicker or even to save on development time/cost in designing all the parts/sections from the ground up.

The Valiant really doesn't look like it borrowed much from anyone, even its head could be said to be Alpha derived with the "check pods", and the face design could be Alpha or VF-1 to. The Gunpod is clearly Alpha, and the ankle to knee design is Alpha, but the feet are radically different as they have no forward "toe", and no human mecha prior to EFM SB had the "side heels" (also found on the UEEF Monster)

The Golem DOES look like an IMU, however given the stated size and proportions, those parts can not clearly be taken from the various sources identified (Alpha, Cyclone, series Condor, etc) because they just do not work so must be purpose built scaled imitators.

[Chris0013]

Was disappointed in the Design style when the book came out and went back and looked today and was still disappointed. The Art Style is good...but pretty much all of the designs for the non-transformable mecha to me were just kitbashed from all the existing mecha. Would have preferred more originality in the designs. OR...what happened to the Jackal, Cougaf, Tiger and Boxer?? And I loved the IMAI files look for the Valiant and the Golem.

[Rabid Southern Cross Fan]

Of course the UEEF Marine "Destroids" are made from cobbled together parts. They're built for use by criminals, cannon fodder and former Malcontents. Why would anyone trust any group of scum with fully realized and complete mecha?