PPE Recovery

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HarleeKnight
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PPE Recovery

Unread post by HarleeKnight »

What methods are there to recovery personal PPE?
I know there is a natural daily recovery and you can recover some from sleeping and meditation, but are there more. I always thought you could just suck some up and top off from a ley line or a sacrifice, etc., but apparently I was wrong; the way it reads you can only hold PPE from external sources for a limited time. My new GM just pointed out that this was a house rule in all my other games...
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Axelmania
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Re: PPE Recovery

Unread post by Axelmania »

HarleeKnight wrote:I always thought you could just suck some up and top off from a ley line or a sacrifice, etc.,
but apparently I was wrong;
the way it reads you can only hold PPE from external sources for a limited time.

PPE slurping has been around since the outset of PPE when it was introduced in Rifts' predecessor BTS.

The Arcanist (first PPE using caster, pg 51) had a neat PPE regen at the time: instead of fixed hourly rate it was 50% per 12 hours. It was just automatic, didn't have to sleep or meditate or even rest, epic. It did kinda stink they couldn't do 25% per 6 hours though.

Their "high" PPE base that attracted predators was pretty pathetic though, only 6D6 (with a bonus 1D6 at level 2... maybe per additional level after that... it's kind of implied but not exactly stated... 189 has "per level" for the NPC though)

The next best (and ONLY) spellcaster was the Parapsychologist. Pg 62 mentions they an use magic SCROOLS. I'm a little unclear how they work though because the ParaPsychs had 2 sentences which seem to leave no options...
    A) "with proper motivation, instructions and available potential psychic energy, the parapsychologist can successfully perform magic"
    B) "nor will he know how to draw on his own PPE base or other available sources, such as cult members, ley lines, and so on"
As best I can guess B is the default (no instinctive knowledge), but "instructions" introduce A: where they can perform magic using SOME kind of PPE (I'm just not sure if it's limited to their own or can include cult members or ley lines)

Pg 94 had the "Drawing PPE from others" rules. Apparently it will "always regenerate in a short while" that being the same 50% per 12 hours, as pg 95 elaborates in it's 2nd paragraph, emphasizing "rest and relaxation are not a factor" (so much for that, Palladium killed it with fire)

It says "an arcanist (that's any user of magic)" so I think that's more than just the Arcanist PCC, but perhaps the Parapsychologist too. None of the other PCCs make any mention of being a "user of magic" AFAIK so they shouldn't be able to. Probably some of the monsters later in the book could do it too.

2D6 could be sucked from unaware drawees.
Aware+unwilling+consciously-resisting people can't be drawn from (just coerce them with threats!).
Knowing/willful consent imparted 70%.

"An Arcanist cannot have his PPE drained" used a capital A, so I'm thinking that DOES only refer to the Arcanist OCC, and not other spellcasters like Parapsychologists/Gargoyles. It says later arcanist/nega-psych are only "classes" immune to PPE vampirism, so I think I'm at least right about the parapsychs (maybe not gargs)

"No arcanist or supernatural beings can use the PPE of a nega-psychic or arcanist" might even additionally mean that blood sacrifice (which is the standard "double at death" like it always was) can't generate energy. Plus it sounds like it would also mean that an arcanist can't willfully consent to impart 70% to another arcanist, because the other arcanist can't DRAW or USE it.

CULTS ARE A SPECIAL CASE is epic, not only does it boost consent-drain from 70 to 100, but somehow gives a bonus 1 PPE beyond the full PPE your cult members have (like they're partially dying for you or something!) plus while doing ritual all members are protected from other arcanists draining them (they're focused on you, so operate like auto not consenting to other mages, even if unaware of them)

It also had that silly rule about no drawing PPE from animals without butchering them because even if they're BEST friends with the human (even if a FAMILIAR, pg 117) their automatic sense-magic power (ALL animals apparently used to have this) lets them know what's up and they instinctively fear+resist it as unwilling-active resistors.
    (solution: put a Possessing entity up there so they can give up the PPE! Or in later books, Friend in the Head is a safer way to get the job done)

There's actually no mention of where drawn PPE ends up on page 94 until perhaps "Drawing PPE from Magic Artifacts"
There are some magic artifacts that act as portable PPE batteries,
from which a mage can add to his own PPE reserve.


The phrase "add to his own" doesn't necessarily mean "restore his own" though, it could just mean "I have 6/6 PPE and this battery has 34, so I'll add them together to cast a 40 PPE spell!"

Spell magic mentions "draw upon his own PPE (which can be supplemented by other sources around him)"

The right column of 95 mentions difficulty with those supplemental sources though:
Although the mystic can draw additional PPE from other characters,
it mandates even greater concentration
and reduces the number of spells possible per melee to one every two melees (30 seconds)


97 left elaborates on the requirements to get the benefits (longer range to draw PPE, more PPE, more people) of Ceremonial Magic (minimum 20 minutes, retrying a failed ritual in <24h only can draw 70% due to disappoint, MA requirements for big numbers separate from the number-doubling for MA22+ two pages prior... max 56)

Given that:
    1) BTS94 never mentions how long it takes to draw the PPE (melee actions, etc)
    2) BTS 94 also never mentionshow long the extra PPE can be held onto
    3) BTS95 mentions penalties for casting a spell WHILE drawing on PPE

I would say the clear intent is that in BTS the time taken to draw PPE was part of standard spellcasting times, IE you ahd to be casting a spell to draw the PPE, and that is where the PPE would go. That you couldn't just walk through a mall and shore up PPE, that you had to immediately use it.

Only a ritual could allow brief interruptions (max 2 melees: 30 seconds) without breaking the trance and requiring restart from the beginning. Pg 101 mentions interrupted spell casters don't lose PPE (I don't like that, I like the idea of using it, creates incentive to use rituals! if they lost it all!) and that it's actually interrupted rituals which are vulnerable: 30% of the "total available PPE" is lost.
    This explains why another attempt within 24 hours is at 70%...SORT OF. Actually, if you regenerate 50% per 12 hours you should be able to retry with full PPE sooner... WHY THIS?

Pg 100 mentions a "multifunction ceremony" ritual to batch 5 low level spells into a 90 minute ritual: that works out to 14 minutes each, shorter than the 20 it would take to do them alone.

AFAIK there were only a couple ways in BTS to actually put drawn PPE to use for long-term power-hoarding (and none of them could restore your PPE any faster, at best give you new sources of external PPE)

    Pg 105 Mystic Alarm, lasts years!

    Pg 107 Astral Projection: minutes in the real world are weeks in the outer plane, think of all the spells you can cast there! Just remember they can only affect other travelers, not the real world!

    Pg 110 Heal Wounds: lurk in hospitals, recruit a cult as a miracle worker

    Pg 111 Memory Bank lasts months, in case you forget passwords

    Pg 116 curse enemies 4 days

    Pg 119 use Transferral to put "all but 4" PPE into someone else. This never mentions it reduces your max PPE so you could regenerate your PPE, then get back your stored PPE from that target later. Of course: since it only lasts 1 hour per level, you'd need to be 13th level to get back 50% from 12 hours passing to begin to take advantage of this.

    Pg 119 cast Bonding on people, start with a cheap 1 PPE spell so it only costs 81. Then you indefinitely have a prop which can later re-activate bonding for a mere 40 PPE.

    Pg 120 Enslave Entity: command it to consent to give it's PPE to you. You can dominate it for 2days per level, so by then you could be back up to full PPE (as would your cult) PLUS you get the PPE of your enslaved entity.

    Pg 120 make Wards, they last centuries!

    Pg 121 Mummies, ditto. Probably don't have any PPE but are otherwise useful for farming turnips to feed your cult.

    Pg 122 make Amulets for your cult.

    Pg 123 make Zombeis to serve your cult

    Pg 123 Summon+Control Entity if you're having a hard time finding some (Enslave is much cheaper, and apparently poltergeists jump out of rifts on the regular, so there's little need for SCE)

    Pg 124 Golems (because sometimes there just aren't enough corpses). Don't worry about the 6 SDC, just make a +6 HP familiar link (pg 117) for each golem you make and it'll balance out.

    Pg 124 Protection Circle Superior: costly to set up, but later down the line for 20 PPE (which someone else could provide) you get a +10 bonus.

    Pg 125 Summoner Lesser Beings: during days they serve you, command them to consent to give you PPE as you need it for spells. Send it back before duration elapses! OR DON'T. Pg 155's Boschala is ideal for this as they have a big pool of PPE (1D4x10). You require at least 2 to tap it though (somehow 1 alone is immune). Safely stockpile up to TWELVE together, and have them merge their PPE so you can
      Stockpile 13 and you won't need to cast SLB anymore, they'll reproduce for you! 12 is the max you can control (when it's 13 they want to breed) so you'll need to keep them in separate groups until you want them to breed. Unclear how far apart, but a Protection Circle might do it. Their nightvision is 100ft so maybe that's far enough... they can track by scent though so it might not be far enough.

    Pg 125: Sanctums yay

    Pg 125: Talismans: PPE batteries "used to bolster the character's normal PPE reserve". I think this means "To brace, reinforce, secure, or support." rather than recharge/refill.

    Pg 126: Summoner Greater Being, they can lend you PPE for immediate use or cast spells themselves. Has a vague "1 hour, possibly more" duration.

    Pg 126: Dimensional Portal. Given that SLB costs 425/being, 1000 for guaranteed 1 monster minimum per minute pays for itself on the 3rd minute (requiring level 6 due to 30s/lvl) although it's not so good if you are concerned about random monsters or being overwhelmed by groups (1d4 gremlines/gargs/darota for example)

    Pg 127: Transformation: turn a loyal minion into a useful monster. Roll on 190! You can't get the magic powers there (but maybe the PPE?) but you can get them psi or fire breath.

Talismans are the closest thing I guess.

I can't remember when they introduced that longer-term "extra PPE" storage thing. Initially PE hours, then PE minutes, then I think HOM made it PE melees? Hard to keep track of.

I for a long time (and I think many others) always assumed you could dump stolen PPE or talisman PPE to rejuvenate your pool if needed, and in fact needed to do that to be able to cast a spell (always directly from your own PPE) and not directly from a PPE battery or directly from a drawee.

Apparently it's the opposite though: directly from them is the ONLY way to use that PPE.
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HarleeKnight
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Re: PPE Recovery

Unread post by HarleeKnight »

Axelmania wrote:
HarleeKnight wrote:I always thought you could just suck some up and top off from a ley line or a sacrifice, etc.,
but apparently I was wrong;
the way it reads you can only hold PPE from external sources for a limited time.

PPE slurping has been around since the outset of PPE when it was introduced in Rifts' predecessor BTS.

The Arcanist (first PPE using caster, pg 51) had a neat PPE regen at the time: instead of fixed hourly rate it was 50% per 12 hours. It was just automatic, didn't have to sleep or meditate or even rest, epic. It did kinda stink they couldn't do 25% per 6 hours though.

Their "high" PPE base that attracted predators was pretty pathetic though, only 6D6 (with a bonus 1D6 at level 2... maybe per additional level after that... it's kind of implied but not exactly stated... 189 has "per level" for the NPC though)

The next best (and ONLY) spellcaster was the Parapsychologist. Pg 62 mentions they an use magic SCROOLS. I'm a little unclear how they work though because the ParaPsychs had 2 sentences which seem to leave no options...
    A) "with proper motivation, instructions and available potential psychic energy, the parapsychologist can successfully perform magic"
    B) "nor will he know how to draw on his own PPE base or other available sources, such as cult members, ley lines, and so on"
As best I can guess B is the default (no instinctive knowledge), but "instructions" introduce A: where they can perform magic using SOME kind of PPE (I'm just not sure if it's limited to their own or can include cult members or ley lines)

Pg 94 had the "Drawing PPE from others" rules. Apparently it will "always regenerate in a short while" that being the same 50% per 12 hours, as pg 95 elaborates in it's 2nd paragraph, emphasizing "rest and relaxation are not a factor" (so much for that, Palladium killed it with fire)

It says "an arcanist (that's any user of magic)" so I think that's more than just the Arcanist PCC, but perhaps the Parapsychologist too. None of the other PCCs make any mention of being a "user of magic" AFAIK so they shouldn't be able to. Probably some of the monsters later in the book could do it too.

2D6 could be sucked from unaware drawees.
Aware+unwilling+consciously-resisting people can't be drawn from (just coerce them with threats!).
Knowing/willful consent imparted 70%.

"An Arcanist cannot have his PPE drained" used a capital A, so I'm thinking that DOES only refer to the Arcanist OCC, and not other spellcasters like Parapsychologists/Gargoyles. It says later arcanist/nega-psych are only "classes" immune to PPE vampirism, so I think I'm at least right about the parapsychs (maybe not gargs)

"No arcanist or supernatural beings can use the PPE of a nega-psychic or arcanist" might even additionally mean that blood sacrifice (which is the standard "double at death" like it always was) can't generate energy. Plus it sounds like it would also mean that an arcanist can't willfully consent to impart 70% to another arcanist, because the other arcanist can't DRAW or USE it.

CULTS ARE A SPECIAL CASE is epic, not only does it boost consent-drain from 70 to 100, but somehow gives a bonus 1 PPE beyond the full PPE your cult members have (like they're partially dying for you or something!) plus while doing ritual all members are protected from other arcanists draining them (they're focused on you, so operate like auto not consenting to other mages, even if unaware of them)

It also had that silly rule about no drawing PPE from animals without butchering them because even if they're BEST friends with the human (even if a FAMILIAR, pg 117) their automatic sense-magic power (ALL animals apparently used to have this) lets them know what's up and they instinctively fear+resist it as unwilling-active resistors.
    (solution: put a Possessing entity up there so they can give up the PPE! Or in later books, Friend in the Head is a safer way to get the job done)

There's actually no mention of where drawn PPE ends up on page 94 until perhaps "Drawing PPE from Magic Artifacts"
There are some magic artifacts that act as portable PPE batteries,
from which a mage can add to his own PPE reserve.


The phrase "add to his own" doesn't necessarily mean "restore his own" though, it could just mean "I have 6/6 PPE and this battery has 34, so I'll add them together to cast a 40 PPE spell!"

Spell magic mentions "draw upon his own PPE (which can be supplemented by other sources around him)"

The right column of 95 mentions difficulty with those supplemental sources though:
Although the mystic can draw additional PPE from other characters,
it mandates even greater concentration
and reduces the number of spells possible per melee to one every two melees (30 seconds)


97 left elaborates on the requirements to get the benefits (longer range to draw PPE, more PPE, more people) of Ceremonial Magic (minimum 20 minutes, retrying a failed ritual in <24h only can draw 70% due to disappoint, MA requirements for big numbers separate from the number-doubling for MA22+ two pages prior... max 56)

Given that:
    1) BTS94 never mentions how long it takes to draw the PPE (melee actions, etc)
    2) BTS 94 also never mentionshow long the extra PPE can be held onto
    3) BTS95 mentions penalties for casting a spell WHILE drawing on PPE

I would say the clear intent is that in BTS the time taken to draw PPE was part of standard spellcasting times, IE you ahd to be casting a spell to draw the PPE, and that is where the PPE would go. That you couldn't just walk through a mall and shore up PPE, that you had to immediately use it.

Only a ritual could allow brief interruptions (max 2 melees: 30 seconds) without breaking the trance and requiring restart from the beginning. Pg 101 mentions interrupted spell casters don't lose PPE (I don't like that, I like the idea of using it, creates incentive to use rituals! if they lost it all!) and that it's actually interrupted rituals which are vulnerable: 30% of the "total available PPE" is lost.
    This explains why another attempt within 24 hours is at 70%...SORT OF. Actually, if you regenerate 50% per 12 hours you should be able to retry with full PPE sooner... WHY THIS?

Pg 100 mentions a "multifunction ceremony" ritual to batch 5 low level spells into a 90 minute ritual: that works out to 14 minutes each, shorter than the 20 it would take to do them alone.

AFAIK there were only a couple ways in BTS to actually put drawn PPE to use for long-term power-hoarding (and none of them could restore your PPE any faster, at best give you new sources of external PPE)

    Pg 105 Mystic Alarm, lasts years!

    Pg 107 Astral Projection: minutes in the real world are weeks in the outer plane, think of all the spells you can cast there! Just remember they can only affect other travelers, not the real world!

    Pg 110 Heal Wounds: lurk in hospitals, recruit a cult as a miracle worker

    Pg 111 Memory Bank lasts months, in case you forget passwords

    Pg 116 curse enemies 4 days

    Pg 119 use Transferral to put "all but 4" PPE into someone else. This never mentions it reduces your max PPE so you could regenerate your PPE, then get back your stored PPE from that target later. Of course: since it only lasts 1 hour per level, you'd need to be 13th level to get back 50% from 12 hours passing to begin to take advantage of this.

    Pg 119 cast Bonding on people, start with a cheap 1 PPE spell so it only costs 81. Then you indefinitely have a prop which can later re-activate bonding for a mere 40 PPE.

    Pg 120 Enslave Entity: command it to consent to give it's PPE to you. You can dominate it for 2days per level, so by then you could be back up to full PPE (as would your cult) PLUS you get the PPE of your enslaved entity.

    Pg 120 make Wards, they last centuries!

    Pg 121 Mummies, ditto. Probably don't have any PPE but are otherwise useful for farming turnips to feed your cult.

    Pg 122 make Amulets for your cult.

    Pg 123 make Zombeis to serve your cult

    Pg 123 Summon+Control Entity if you're having a hard time finding some (Enslave is much cheaper, and apparently poltergeists jump out of rifts on the regular, so there's little need for SCE)

    Pg 124 Golems (because sometimes there just aren't enough corpses). Don't worry about the 6 SDC, just make a +6 HP familiar link (pg 117) for each golem you make and it'll balance out.

    Pg 124 Protection Circle Superior: costly to set up, but later down the line for 20 PPE (which someone else could provide) you get a +10 bonus.

    Pg 125 Summoner Lesser Beings: during days they serve you, command them to consent to give you PPE as you need it for spells. Send it back before duration elapses! OR DON'T. Pg 155's Boschala is ideal for this as they have a big pool of PPE (1D4x10). You require at least 2 to tap it though (somehow 1 alone is immune). Safely stockpile up to TWELVE together, and have them merge their PPE so you can
      Stockpile 13 and you won't need to cast SLB anymore, they'll reproduce for you! 12 is the max you can control (when it's 13 they want to breed) so you'll need to keep them in separate groups until you want them to breed. Unclear how far apart, but a Protection Circle might do it. Their nightvision is 100ft so maybe that's far enough... they can track by scent though so it might not be far enough.

    Pg 125: Sanctums yay

    Pg 125: Talismans: PPE batteries "used to bolster the character's normal PPE reserve". I think this means "To brace, reinforce, secure, or support." rather than recharge/refill.

    Pg 126: Summoner Greater Being, they can lend you PPE for immediate use or cast spells themselves. Has a vague "1 hour, possibly more" duration.

    Pg 126: Dimensional Portal. Given that SLB costs 425/being, 1000 for guaranteed 1 monster minimum per minute pays for itself on the 3rd minute (requiring level 6 due to 30s/lvl) although it's not so good if you are concerned about random monsters or being overwhelmed by groups (1d4 gremlines/gargs/darota for example)

    Pg 127: Transformation: turn a loyal minion into a useful monster. Roll on 190! You can't get the magic powers there (but maybe the PPE?) but you can get them psi or fire breath.

Talismans are the closest thing I guess.

I can't remember when they introduced that longer-term "extra PPE" storage thing. Initially PE hours, then PE minutes, then I think HOM made it PE melees? Hard to keep track of.

I for a long time (and I think many others) always assumed you could dump stolen PPE or talisman PPE to rejuvenate your pool if needed, and in fact needed to do that to be able to cast a spell (always directly from your own PPE) and not directly from a PPE battery or directly from a drawee.

Apparently it's the opposite though: directly from them is the ONLY way to use that PPE.


Thank you! This was so great to read. Easily two thumbs up.
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Re: PPE Recovery

Unread post by drewkitty ~..~ »

Note that since the publication of RUE, 'In Rifts' the people being drawn from have to know and concent to being drawn from.
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Axelmania
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Re: PPE Recovery

Unread post by Axelmania »

RUE certainly has some new rules which differ from the core book.

It's not world-shattering to allow both to be used, IMO.
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Re: PPE Recovery

Unread post by drewkitty ~..~ »

Axelmania wrote:snip

It's not world-shattering to allow both to be used, IMO.

But it would take an Act of GM to do it.

I for one would just choose between the two one way to the other for the game I GM.

Informing the players before hand if I choose to house rule things and what the house rules are.
May you be blessed with the ability to change course when you are off the mark.
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Axelmania
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Re: PPE Recovery

Unread post by Axelmania »

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:I for one would just choose between the two one way to the other for the game I GM.


They actually seem to cover gaps in each other pretty well if you use them both.

One thing consistently between RMB 162 and RUE 186 is drawing 70% from consenting subjects and 200% from blood sacrifices, for example...

162 covers the "without one's knowledge" situation (take merely 50% and only if they fail save vs magic 12) with a complete ban on unwilling subjects

186 relaxed the "unwilling subjects" ban and gave rules for it (take merely 1% and only if they fail save vs magic ?? at +4) but seems to imply "without one's knowledge" is now impossible ("must first be made aware of the mage's intentions").

I think it's cooler to ignore 162's ban on unwilling, ignore 186's requirement of awareness, and treat 200% / 70% / 50% / 1% as the four possible tiers in different situations.

If the concern is about 50%-for-unaware being way too powerful, that can be reduced by drawing on a more recent megaversal book which could not be considered overwritten by RUE: Heart of Magic, pg 24.

The "unwitting" steal has same mechanic (save vs magic 12) but is limited to 1D4 PPE at a time instead of a lump grab of 50%. Far more balanced.

HOM 24 also puts an interesting limit on the 70% willing: that's just for 1 guy, it's 50% per guy if you have 2-9 people holding hands (hand-holding a MUST). 10+ requires ritual.

This part however:
    if you're in combat, you can not draw P.P.E. from your enemies, because they see you as a designated foe, are
    guarded, and therefore keep their P.P.E. to themselves (unwilling subjects)

We can declare that over-rode by RUE's super-conservative option of 1% at +4 to save.

There are a few weird problems though:
    1) 1% of a creature with 500 PPE would be 5 PPE, more than 1D4...
    2) 1D4 isn't necessarily a nerf, 2.5 PPE is after all more than 50% of the PPE for beings with 4 PPE or less
    3) 1D4 can apparently increment them down to 0, there's no "can't be reduced below 30%" in HOM anymore

I'm thinking maybe unwilling ought to be the LESSER of 1D4 or 1%, or maybe even the lesser or 1D4x0.1 and 1%.

Unaware OTOH should perhaps be capped at lesser of 1D4 and 10%.
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