Cosmo-Knight companions

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Rifter11
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Cosmo-Knight companions

Unread post by Rifter11 »

What R.C.C./O.C.C.s would you recommend to play in a group with at least one Cosmo-Knight?
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Re: Cosmo-Knight companions

Unread post by Warshield73 »

Rifter11 wrote:What R.C.C./O.C.C.s would you recommend to play in a group with at least one Cosmo-Knight?

If you're interested in group balance anything on the level of demi-god, godling, hatchling dragon works.

The only group I ever ran that had a Cosmo-knight in it was just a short 4 game campaign and it had 3 Cosmo-knights, a Runner OCC that was a Mega Hero using HU rules and a godling.
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Re: Cosmo-Knight companions

Unread post by Rifter11 »

Warshield73 wrote:
Rifter11 wrote:What R.C.C./O.C.C.s would you recommend to play in a group with at least one Cosmo-Knight?

If you're interested in group balance anything on the level of demi-god, godling, hatchling dragon works.

The only group I ever ran that had a Cosmo-knight in it was just a short 4 game campaign and it had 3 Cosmo-knights, a Runner OCC that was a Mega Hero using HU rules and a godling.


Thats exactly what I meant. For instance, I would recommend not playing a vagabond in that group. I was thinking Godling, Demigod (?), Undead Slayer, Super powered adventurer (I suppose Vagabond would be fine here), Borg, Dragon Hatchling, Dragon Juicer, Bio-Borg...etc.

If anyone doesn't think any or all of the above would be appropriate, please explain :)
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Re: Cosmo-Knight companions

Unread post by Mack »

To be a bit more specific, I'd recommend a Chiang-Ku dragon, since it can take a magic OCC along with it's major psionics, shape-change ability, and tattoos.
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Re: Cosmo-Knight companions

Unread post by Incriptus »

My instinct would be to play something that complements the Cosmo-Knight's weaknesses instead of trying to match his power. Most likely in the form of a Psychic. Relying more on subtlety than power. Now if you can find a race with natural MD or Extra ISP both are worthwhile, or the old standby of "Demi-God"

Here is a thought

Psi-Nullifier: Despite the high attribute bonuses that make a lot of save vs magic trivial, being your Cosmo-Knight's insurance against magic could be an interesting play. You can also position yourself as the go to guy for Lore Demons/Monsters/Magic/Psionics; while your Knight is more "Cosmic". You can also play the "Rogue" to his "Knight"
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Re: Cosmo-Knight companions

Unread post by Warshield73 »

Incriptus wrote:My instinct would be to play something that complements the Cosmo-Knight's weaknesses instead of trying to match his power. Most likely in the form of a Psychic. Relying more on subtlety than power. Now if you can find a race with natural MD or Extra ISP both are worthwhile, or the old standby of "Demi-God"

Here is a thought

Psi-Nullifier: Despite the high attribute bonuses that make a lot of save vs magic trivial, being your Cosmo-Knight's insurance against magic could be an interesting play. You can also position yourself as the go to guy for Lore Demons/Monsters/Magic/Psionics; while your Knight is more "Cosmic". You can also play the "Rogue" to his "Knight"

This is a good point but I also forgot to include one other point. While in the group I ran the non-Cosmo-Knights where more powerful characters they were never as powerful, nowhere near actual, as the Ck's because the CK's power comes with a leash. These are beings whose power comes with a huge price and it can be taken away.

The actions of CK's are limited in ways that a similar character with super powers or godling wouldn't be so getting to parity shouldn't be the goal but characters that allow players to participate in games that would challenge a CK should be.
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Re: Cosmo-Knight companions

Unread post by Mouser13 »

One I dm weird played Cosmo knight forced to work with demons to complete galaxy shattering event, but a little crazy. Say if you have any mages make sure get access to the space spells three galaxies, Cosmic armors balance well with alot of cosmic knight abilities.
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Re: Cosmo-Knight companions

Unread post by Nekira Sudacne »

A more useful question is not "What OCC's come out nearly as powerful as a Cosmo Knight" because the answer is "not many and the groups will feel samey after a while"

A better question is "What kind of stuff do I need to get the OCC's that people want to play on a roughly even keel". Even a vagabond can roll with a Cosmo Knight after you've run him through some bio-wizardy enhancements and decked him out in Rune gear. Other OCC's might require less drastic modifications.
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Re: Cosmo-Knight companions

Unread post by Hotrod »

I've never had any desire to play a Cosmo-Knight or have one in a game. If you're looking for something with comparable combat abilities, you could go with a Hundred Handed, a Splugorth Overlord or Conservator, or maybe something with potent super powers (indestructible plus a bunch of other stuff).

Incriptus' point about covering their weaknesses is a good idea, and a nega-psychic or psi-nullifier would do this well. That said, I regard Cosmo-Knights as having other weaknesses besides a vulnerability to magic/psionics:
Hunting: Cosmo-Knights are powerful, but they're not intrinsically great at finding things. A psi-stalker, dog boy, or native of Psyscape could be helpful in finding supernatural threats.
Helping Others: Cosmo-Knights are great at killing and smashing, but they have no useful skills or powers to build, repair, or heal. An operator, cyber-doc, psi-druid, or priest might be useful.
Sneaking: Though they can go incognito, Cosmo-Knights aren't built well for espionage. A Psi-Ghost, City Rat, or magic user could be a good teammate here.
Magic users like shifters and ley line walkers could, with the right spells, fill any or all of these roles, too.
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Re: Cosmo-Knight companions

Unread post by Incriptus »

Another thought is that when it comes to keeping up with the Cosmo-Knight is to make sure you can keep up.
It shouldn't be too difficult to get a gravpack in a phaseworld game (even then you're 200 mph to their Mach [Level]), but you want to make sure that your character isn't too attached to the ground.

The more I think about it, if I were to team with a Cosmo-Knight, I would would most likely end up as a "well equipped" Noro Psi-Nullfier.
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Re: Cosmo-Knight companions

Unread post by Hotrod »

Frankly, I find the concept of playing a Fallen Knight or having one in the party to be far more interesting, both in terms of mechanics and in terms of plot/character development, than having a Cosmo-Knight in the party. Even in a high-power campaign, Fallen Knights are a pretty good choice.
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Re: Cosmo-Knight companions

Unread post by Father Goose »

Hotrod wrote:Frankly, I find the concept of playing a Fallen Knight or having one in the party to be far more interesting, both in terms of mechanics and in terms of plot/character development, than having a Cosmo-Knight in the party. Even in a high-power campaign, Fallen Knights are a pretty good choice.


Cosmo-Knights are really great in concept, but difficult to run in a meaningful way.
Fallen are even more compelling in concept, but the skill penalties are so harsh that skills become nearly worthless.
So as much as I like them both as concepts, I don't know how I would ever use either of them.
taalismn wrote:Hey, you came up with a novel, attention-getting idea, you did the legwork, you worked it through, you made it fit the setting, even though initial thought might be 'nah, it can't work, it's too silly/stupid/lame', and you posted something that only required a little adjustment, yet can be added to, without diluting its original concept. How can we not give you due support and credit?
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Re: Cosmo-Knight companions

Unread post by Hotrod »

Father Goose wrote:
Hotrod wrote:Frankly, I find the concept of playing a Fallen Knight or having one in the party to be far more interesting, both in terms of mechanics and in terms of plot/character development, than having a Cosmo-Knight in the party. Even in a high-power campaign, Fallen Knights are a pretty good choice.


Cosmo-Knights are really great in concept, but difficult to run in a meaningful way.
Fallen are even more compelling in concept, but the skill penalties are so harsh that skills become nearly worthless.
So as much as I like them both as concepts, I don't know how I would ever use either of them.

Yeah, I have my own mechanics for Fallen Knights, partly because of the skill issue, and partly because I see no reason why they can only take the powers of a Mind Melter or Ley Line Walker.

My approach to creating a Fallen N.P.C. or player character is to treat the Fallen N.P.C. as something akin to a species. They keep the natural abilities and stats as written, and they can take any new O.C.C. or P.C.C. they wish, subject to the GM's approval.

For each secondary skill option in their new O.C.C., the character gets to keep one old skill as a Cosmo-Knight. These skills get no penalties or bonuses (other than I.Q.), and in all cases, the Fallen Knight starts at level 1.

The Fallen Knight remembers how and why he/she fell with perfect clarity, but most other memories as a Cosmo-Knight are fuzzy, and are only clear in the Fallen Knight's recurring dreams, dreams in which the Cosmo-knight uses those skills that he/she chose to keep.

I also rather like the idea of having some groups of fallen knights who band together based on their outlook. Redeemers might focus on seeking reinstatement as Cosmo-Knights. Defiers might eschew their old code and actively work against or try to corrupt Cosmo-Knights. Renegades might continue pursuing their goals as knights using methods that might violate the Cosmo-Knight code, as well as embracing the magic and psionics that they could never use before.

I thought the idea of Fallen Knights was one of the best and most compelling ideas in Phase World, and I rather wish it had been developed more.
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Re: Cosmo-Knight companions

Unread post by Father Goose »

Hotrod wrote:[
I thought the idea of Fallen Knights was one of the best and most compelling ideas in Phase World, and I rather wish it had been developed more.


Agreed. If not for the skills issue, it might be my favorite OCC. I can definitely see merit in house rules to address the problem.
taalismn wrote:Hey, you came up with a novel, attention-getting idea, you did the legwork, you worked it through, you made it fit the setting, even though initial thought might be 'nah, it can't work, it's too silly/stupid/lame', and you posted something that only required a little adjustment, yet can be added to, without diluting its original concept. How can we not give you due support and credit?
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Re: Cosmo-Knight companions

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Fallen Cosmo-Knight Mage, just about any Dragon Hatchling, Oni Cyberai, Godling, Demi-God, Oni Ninja, Promethean, Super-Spy, Lost One... any or all
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Re: Cosmo-Knight companions

Unread post by Warshield73 »

Fenris2020 wrote:Fallen Cosmo-Knight Mage, just about any Dragon Hatchling, Oni Cyberai, Godling, Demi-God, Oni Ninja, Promethean, Super-Spy, Lost One... any or all

Phase Adept, any race. Dracanoids are great but I recommend mage over psychic.
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Re: Cosmo-Knight companions

Unread post by Fenris2020 »

Warshield73 wrote:
Fenris2020 wrote:Fallen Cosmo-Knight Mage, just about any Dragon Hatchling, Oni Cyberai, Godling, Demi-God, Oni Ninja, Promethean, Super-Spy, Lost One... any or all

Phase Adept, any race. Dracanoids are great but I recommend mage over psychic.


I agree; Mage Draconids seem to work better than the psychic ones
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Re: Cosmo-Knight companions

Unread post by Curbludgeon »

A Zebuloid pilot with access to a fighter, something they can use planet-side, and maybe a small transport in which to store the other two can more than keep up in terms of mobility and combat. One of the higher tier skillmonkeys like a Whack Job, Rogue Scientist, Lemurian Experimenter, or PU2 Natural Genius can cover for the CK's sub-optimal skillset, especially if they have access to something to assist with combat utility like superpowers or power armor. A fun magic user type that hasn't been mentioned yet is a Nightbane Sorcerer (or maybe Magii Athanatos?), who in addition to better combat stats than most spellcasters has access to some interdimensional utility that others lack. Also, with the right Morphus selections and a couple of Space Magic spells they can pull off the Silver Surfer shtick even more effectively than a Cosmo Knight.
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