Corporations - anybody an idea?

Ley Line walkers, Juicers, Coalition Troops, Samas, Tolkeen, & The Federation Of Magic. Come together here to discuss all things Rifts®.

Moderators: Immortals, Supreme Beings, Old Ones

User avatar
Nuristas
Explorer
Posts: 114
Joined: Sat May 23, 2020 3:26 am

Corporations - anybody an idea?

Unread post by Nuristas »

Good Evening,

Let's start with the fact that I am aware that in Rifts money and costs are not always logical. That is kinda besides the point of my question but some things we do know:

    We know it takes 30 million to keep Larsen's in the field for a month without combat pay.
    We know Naruni stock went up hugely in a short burst

Do we have any idea about the value and/or profits of corporations like:
    Northern Gun
    Wellington Industries
    Wilks
    Naruni Enterprises
    Bandito arms
    Golde Age Weapons Company
    Chipwell
    Iron Heart Armaments, INC
    MageFire Weaponry, INC

I haven't been able to find a good reference for it and it kinda bugs me not to be able to have an idea about how much money we are talking about.
I am asking because there are values of profits for businesses in the Black Market Handbook and one of my co-players wants to invest in a big corp with her ill-gotten gains.

If there are other companies you would say: invest in that one, any suggestions would be swell.
User avatar
Orin J.
Adventurer
Posts: 678
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 1:00 pm
Location: a west coast

Re: Corporations - anybody an idea?

Unread post by Orin J. »

two of those are interimensional traders, and one's the black market so there's proably not one system that applies to all of them.

honestly the safe money is that a "corporation" in rifts is a much more ambiguous thing than we're used to as there's no agreed financial rule applied to everything. considering the RUE claims the coalition does 70% of the business in north america and somehow at the same time doesn't sell anything to virtually anyone i think asking for anything even resembling logical economics of the setting is madness.
User avatar
Nuristas
Explorer
Posts: 114
Joined: Sat May 23, 2020 3:26 am

Re: Corporations - anybody an idea?

Unread post by Nuristas »

Orin J. wrote:two of those are interimensional traders, and one's the black market so there's proably not one system that applies to all of them.

honestly the safe money is that a "corporation" in rifts is a much more ambiguous thing than we're used to as there's no agreed financial rule applied to everything. considering the RUE claims the coalition does 70% of the business in north america and somehow at the same time doesn't sell anything to virtually anyone i think asking for anything even resembling logical economics of the setting is madness.


That I am very painfully aware of.
The goal was to get the best estimate of people who have been playing the game for a while.

That was it.
User avatar
Library Ogre
Palladium Books® Freelance Writer
Posts: 9801
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2001 1:01 am
Comment: My comments do not necessarily represent the views of Palladium Books.
Location: Texas
Contact:

Re: Corporations - anybody an idea?

Unread post by Library Ogre »

A corporation in Rifts is a government whose main motivation is profit, and who produce goods or services to generate that profit.
-overproduced by Martin Hannett

When I see someone "fisking" these days my first inclination is to think "That person doesn't have much to say, and says it in volume." -John Scalzi
Happiness is a long block list.
If you don't want to be vilified, don't act like a villain.
The Megaverse runs on vibes.
All Palladium Articles
Mutant Dawn for Savage Worlds!
Prole
Wanderer
Posts: 89
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:55 pm

Re: Corporations - anybody an idea?

Unread post by Prole »

Orin J. wrote:two of those are interimensional traders, and one's the black market so there's proably not one system that applies to all of them.

honestly the safe money is that a "corporation" in rifts is a much more ambiguous thing than we're used to as there's no agreed financial rule applied to everything. considering the RUE claims the coalition does 70% of the business in north america and somehow at the same time doesn't sell anything to virtually anyone i think asking for anything even resembling logical economics of the setting is madness.


The CS made the credits that most transactions are done in and this currency is backed by all the people who buy and sell things for CS Credits. I think that is what the book means.

Do we know the population of the setting, or what the highest settings are for a corporation that doesn't have reach outside one continent, according to the books?
User avatar
slade2501
Explorer
Posts: 193
Joined: Fri May 08, 2015 1:34 pm
Comment: For the baddies I shoot, and their bodies I loot; Oh RNJesus, you I salute!
Location: Maine

Re: Corporations - anybody an idea?

Unread post by slade2501 »

well, as an example of comparison, the GM company posted a profit (after costs) of 10 billion in 2018. I would favorably compare that to Northern Gun as an equal size company. Their revenue (not profit but total money made) in 2017 was 144 billion dollars.
User avatar
The Beast
Demon Lord Extraordinaire
Posts: 5956
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2005 3:28 pm
Comment: You probably think this comment is about you, don't you?
Location: Apocrypha

Re: Corporations - anybody an idea?

Unread post by The Beast »

Nuristas wrote:Good Evening,

Let's start with the fact that I am aware that in Rifts money and costs are not always logical. That is kinda besides the point of my question but some things we do know:

    We know it takes 30 million to keep Larsen's in the field for a month without combat pay.
    We know Naruni stock went up hugely in a short burst

Do we have any idea about the value and/or profits of corporations like:
    Northern Gun
    Wellington Industries
    Wilks
    Naruni Enterprises
    Bandito arms
    Golde Age Weapons Company
    Chipwell
    Iron Heart Armaments, INC
    MageFire Weaponry, INC

I haven't been able to find a good reference for it and it kinda bugs me not to be able to have an idea about how much money we are talking about.
I am asking because there are values of profits for businesses in the Black Market Handbook and one of my co-players wants to invest in a big corp with her ill-gotten gains.

If there are other companies you would say: invest in that one, any suggestions would be swell.


Best I can do would be to rank them from highest to lowest, which IMO would be:

Naruni Enterprises
Northern Gun
Bandito arms
Wilks
Golden Age Weapons Company
Chipwell
Wellington Industries
Iron Heart Armaments, INC (these guys are defunct now, aren't they?)

And I'm not familiar with MageFire Weaponry so I'm not ranking them, but I'm guessing they're the other multi-dimensional company that was mentioned so if that's the case I'd put them at number two.
User avatar
Library Ogre
Palladium Books® Freelance Writer
Posts: 9801
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2001 1:01 am
Comment: My comments do not necessarily represent the views of Palladium Books.
Location: Texas
Contact:

Re: Corporations - anybody an idea?

Unread post by Library Ogre »

Mark Hall wrote:A corporation in Rifts is a government whose main motivation is profit, and who produce goods or services to generate that profit.


You know what, I'm gonna add to this:

I would be willing to bet, while most corporations are effectively governments, one of the key differences is that they are semi-democratic.

In Shadowrun, there was a nation called the Pueblo Corporate Council. They had two kinds of stock... residential, which made you a citizen, and preferred, which let you live and work in the country, but without voting rights. Owning more stock gave you more votes, but it was logarithmic... 10 shares didn't give you 10 votes. I don't recall the precise number, and I can't be arsed to look them up.

So, you might have some standing corporations where citizenship comes with dividends, and a vote in shareholders meetings.
-overproduced by Martin Hannett

When I see someone "fisking" these days my first inclination is to think "That person doesn't have much to say, and says it in volume." -John Scalzi
Happiness is a long block list.
If you don't want to be vilified, don't act like a villain.
The Megaverse runs on vibes.
All Palladium Articles
Mutant Dawn for Savage Worlds!
User avatar
Blue_Lion
Knight
Posts: 6226
Joined: Tue Oct 16, 2001 1:01 am
Location: Clone Lab 27

Re: Corporations - anybody an idea?

Unread post by Blue_Lion »

Iron heart is out of business, the only thing left is a group of free booters/pirates.
The Clones are coming you shall all be replaced, but who is to say you have not been replaced already.

Master of Type-O and the obvios.

Soon my army oc clones and winged-monkies will rule the world but first, must .......

I may debate canon and RAW, but the games I run are highly house ruled. So I am not debating for how I play but about how the system works as written.
hup7
Wanderer
Posts: 98
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2021 10:06 am

Re: Corporations - anybody an idea?

Unread post by hup7 »

We often take real world examples because it sits better in our head. But I doubt any of these are "public" companies as such. In my opinion they are more like family business / partnerships.

Would they want investment capital?
What is their supply chain? Is it legal?

They rarely operate in standard business mode - take Titan Industries, they have no need of money in the traditional sense. However resources and minerals are far more important to them.

I can imagine recycling would be a huge industry.

Now to the original question, the "value" of investment might not have anything to do with the total value of the company - more like how useful is THAT cash at THAT time. A multibillion dollar business might need cash flow to pay some bandits that are holding up a shipment, and thus might be happy to give a "share" of profits in return for the cash right at that time.

As to the coalition not selling much - they don't sell military equipment (as per most of the books) but they certainly farm and sell food and clothing and everything else for millions of people. They do sell military equipment to other nations (such as the NGR).
Shark_Force
Palladin
Posts: 7128
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:11 pm

Re: Corporations - anybody an idea?

Unread post by Shark_Force »

The Beast wrote:Best I can do would be to rank them from highest to lowest, which IMO would be:

Naruni Enterprises
Northern Gun
Bandito arms
Wilks
Golden Age Weapons Company
Chipwell
Wellington Industries
Iron Heart Armaments, INC (these guys are defunct now, aren't they?)

And I'm not familiar with MageFire Weaponry so I'm not ranking them, but I'm guessing they're the other multi-dimensional company that was mentioned so if that's the case I'd put them at number two.


I would put wilks above bandito. we're told that a lot of common electrical components are actually produced by wilks and incorporated into all kinds of stuff made by other corporations in whichever book it is that introduced the CS banning wilks stuff, iirc.
User avatar
Killer Cyborg
Priest
Posts: 27954
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2001 2:01 am
Comment: "Your Eloquence with a sledge hammer is a beautiful thing..." -Zer0 Kay
Location: In the ocean, punching oncoming waves
Contact:

Re: Corporations - anybody an idea?

Unread post by Killer Cyborg »

Do we really know which companies are corporations and which are sole proprietorships?
Annual Best Poster of the Year Awards (2012)

"That rifle on the wall of the laborer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there." -George Orwell

Check out my Author Page on Amazon!
User avatar
MadGreenSon
Explorer
Posts: 170
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:58 pm

Re: Corporations - anybody an idea?

Unread post by MadGreenSon »

Mark Hall wrote:
Mark Hall wrote:A corporation in Rifts is a government whose main motivation is profit, and who produce goods or services to generate that profit.


You know what, I'm gonna add to this:

I would be willing to bet, while most corporations are effectively governments, one of the key differences is that they are semi-democratic.

In Shadowrun, there was a nation called the Pueblo Corporate Council. They had two kinds of stock... residential, which made you a citizen, and preferred, which let you live and work in the country, but without voting rights. Owning more stock gave you more votes, but it was logarithmic... 10 shares didn't give you 10 votes. I don't recall the precise number, and I can't be arsed to look them up.

So, you might have some standing corporations where citizenship comes with dividends, and a vote in shareholders meetings.


I like this. It fits what we've seen for the most part and also plays up the differences between Rifts Earth and our world.
User avatar
Library Ogre
Palladium Books® Freelance Writer
Posts: 9801
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2001 1:01 am
Comment: My comments do not necessarily represent the views of Palladium Books.
Location: Texas
Contact:

Re: Corporations - anybody an idea?

Unread post by Library Ogre »

hup7 wrote:They rarely operate in standard business mode - take Titan Industries, they have no need of money in the traditional sense. However resources and minerals are far more important to them.

I can imagine recycling would be a huge industry.


I figure resource reclamation is a big business everywhere. (Ctrl+F for "Big Bertha" to find it)
-overproduced by Martin Hannett

When I see someone "fisking" these days my first inclination is to think "That person doesn't have much to say, and says it in volume." -John Scalzi
Happiness is a long block list.
If you don't want to be vilified, don't act like a villain.
The Megaverse runs on vibes.
All Palladium Articles
Mutant Dawn for Savage Worlds!
Post Reply

Return to “Rifts®”