Skeptical

[desepchun]

I am. About this product. I'm having a hard time understanding why it's a new book. How many times do we need base skills and combat to be reprinted?

I think it would be a pretty cool campaign idea, but whats the replay on this?

[Carl Gleba]

I am. About this product. I'm having a hard time understanding why it's a new book. How many times do we need base skills and combat to be reprinted?

I think it would be a pretty cool campaign idea, but whats the replay on this?

It might help if we understood your expectations?

This is more than just a campaign book, its a new genre for Palladium. It would be IMO a bad idea to just make a generic one size fits all into any Palladium setting book. You also have to consider attracting new customers. If someone who never played an RPG before and has a love of zombies picks up Dead Reign with no rules how do they play it?

Those of us who are familiar with the Palladium system can skim the rules for any unique rules added for this setting. Other than that part of the book, I'm sure there will be plenty of meat making the book worth the price.

Carl

[DtMK]

One of the things that made me psyched was hearing about a new modified combat for dealing with multiple opponents. This was the buzz, hopefully it'll still be in the final cut. And there should be plenty of replay, one part could be dealing with the day of The Wave. Then it's a scramble to survive. Dealing with the various places on Earth, you could have different settings. Right outside Winnipeg, in the heart of New York, or since the main part of the Z-Virus was disguised as a cure for cancer so only certain people in the U.S. could afford it, imagine being in or near Beverly Hills when the elite of money and society devolve into flesh eating zombies, then imagine some homeless guy they chewed on became a Thinker, controlling the controllers. The ultimate irony.

And you could also do what I do, with so much death, throw in a healthy smattering of ghosts and entities from BTS and MadHaven. Remind me to tell you about the Tectonic Zombie Bus some time...

You have the basics for survival, then finding a safe haven. You could play on or near every major continent, or even do a water campaign with floating communities! Or maybe you want to play someone ready to take the fight to the foes and go after the cultists and corporation that caused it. Think of it in stages, if done right you can play various new O.C.C.'s, or even see what happens if such a horde were unleashed or crossed over into other game worlds and characters!

Imagine other ideas of how revered various hero characters would be if rescuing people from the hordes of the undead. You could do it several different ways. Basic campaigns, spice things up with borrowing characters or such from other games. Imagine a Ghost Hunter or Sea Inquisitor going to town on them, or even an Atlantean Undead Slayer for real challenges. And of course, the more these heroes emerge with their reputations, the forces of darkness unleashing strategic plans and unexpected foes and attacks against them. Like, what if what some think is a simple Runner or Thinker shed its body to reveal a Dybbuk? That would scare the dice out of most characters if they never see it coming!

I've been running my own game, borrowing heavily from other genres to fill in the gaps until the main book comes out. I hope to run a pure Ordinary People campaign with it, plus supplementing the other books coming out like the Minion Wars series.

[Pepsi Jedi]

My only worry for this book is that Palladium tends, for the most part, to be a sorta PG sort of line.. PG 13 if you really push it. Palladium, seems to have a hard time pushing past that PG or PG 13 thing on to R which is where a real zombie book needs to be. Even their books about Hell and demons and stuff come off feling kinda clean cut and shiny.

It's not a failing. It's a style and preference and such of Kevin and crew. Zombies need to be BAD.. not just "Not good and kinda naughty" I'm hoping they're BAD in the book. From what we've seen it could really go that way. Or.. it could be kinda glossed over.

I'm gonna buy it. Don't get me wrong. I want the book, I just hope It comes with snarly broken teeth that can take a bite out of you.. not gums to slurp ya to death.

[DtMK]

I'm gonna buy it. Don't get me wrong. I want the book, I just hope It comes with snarly broken teeth that can take a bite out of you.. not gums to slurp ya to death.

Man, how crazy would that be? Save vs. Gumming! if you fail, you turn into a zombie that looks like a giant leech called a Nommer!

[Wōdwulf Seaxaning]

My only worry for this book is that Palladium tends, for the most part, to be a sorta PG sort of line.. PG 13 if you really push it. Palladium, seems to have a hard time pushing past that PG or PG 13 thing on to R which is where a real zombie book needs to be. Even their books about Hell and demons and stuff come off feling kinda clean cut and shiny.

It's not a failing. It's a style and preference and such of Kevin and crew. Zombies need to be BAD.. not just "Not good and kinda naughty" I'm hoping they're BAD in the book. From what we've seen it could really go that way. Or.. it could be kinda glossed over.

I'm gonna buy it. Don't get me wrong. I want the book, I just hope It comes with snarly broken teeth that can take a bite out of you.. not gums to slurp ya to death.

I'd like to see PB & Kevin go beyond the PG line as well.WW does w/ their WoD books. I'm not saying ALL PB or even most PB books should be R or NC-17 rated, but Dead Reign & other Horror based games like BtS & NB should.The horror genre is mainly popular w/ adults IMO.I don't think it'd hurt sales either.

[runebeo]

I am. About this product. I'm having a hard time understanding why it's a new book. How many times do we need base skills and combat to be reprinted?

I think it would be a pretty cool campaign idea, but whats the replay on this?

I agree with you, why did this book need to be a stand alone, then you get one third one of book with rules and standard equipment. If it had been BTS source book or dimension book we would get more bang for our buck without the same old copy & paste rule reprint all the core books have. I pretty sure magic and psionics will not be included so another book will be needed like Rifts book of magic to bring it up to standard of Nightbane. I not a big zombie fan, but I'm going to use it for our BTS & Nightbane campaigns. I still hope turns out to be really good and that it does not turnout to be a dead product.

[Braden Campbell]

How many times do we need base skills and combat to be reprinted?

The reason that the basic game set (skills and rules) are reprinted so often is because you never know what someone's first Palladium RPG might be. If someone goes into a game store, with no foreknowledge of the company's game lines, then no matter what game catches their interest, they have everything they need to play it right in one package. Those of us who know the system can just by-pass it, but it's really there for the new customers.

[Rallan]

I am. About this product. I'm having a hard time understanding why it's a new book. How many times do we need base skills and combat to be reprinted?

I think it would be a pretty cool campaign idea, but whats the replay on this?

I agree with you, why did this book need to be a stand alone, then you get one third one of book with rules and standard equipment. If it had been BTS source book or dimension book we would get more bang for our buck without the same old copy & paste rule reprint all the core books have. I pretty sure magic and psionics will not be included so another book will be needed like Rifts book of magic to bring it up to standard of Nightbane. I not a big zombie fan, but I'm going to use it for our BTS & Nightbane campaigns. I still hope turns out to be really good and that it does not turnout to be a dead product.

From a business perspective though, selling it as a standalone game probably looks better than selling it as a Beyond The Supernatural sourcebook. BTS is dead in the water and has been since the late 90s, and nobody but existing Palladium fans are ever going to buy a BTS sourcebook no matter how awesome it may be. As a complete RPG in its own right, it's more user-friendly for folks who don't already own other Palladium products.

Plus it doesn't hurt that it you pad out the page count by a good 20 or pages without having to pay more money to a writer

Anywise, moving along to thoughts on the product itself... I'm not expecting much.

Like Pepsi said, Palladium doesn't do "adult" well. It shies away from describing nasty details, and pretty much every Palladium book I've ever read has an atmosphere of high adventure and four-color comicbook morality, and while that works in games that are all about costumed superheroes or high fantasy adventures, it doesn't work so well when you're trying to establish the mood and setting for a horror RPG. It made Beyond the Supernatural feel like the cthulhu mythos stories of Robert E. Howard rather than H. P. Lovecraft. It made Nightbane feel like a supers RPG where everyone looks badass instead of a game of paranoia and body horror. And I can't see it working well in a zombie game, considering the zombie apocalypse genre is all about brutality, suffering, man's inhumanity when faced with extremes, the bleakness and misery of eking out an existence in a world that's been destroyed, and (most importantly) lots of lovingly detailed visceral and gory stuff about blowing the face off a shambling corpse that used to be your girlfriend because she's just disemboweled your kid brother.

Still, at least it's a genre with the sort of power level that Palladium's rules are actually suited to. Humans are nice and squishy (especially if they're going up against monsters with supernatural strength or other humans with guns). Zombies are nice and squishy (especially when the protagonists learn to start aiming for the head). If they stay true to the genre, hopefully they won't end up with beefy powerhouses that turn every fight into an epic slugging match of endless dice-rolling and bookkeeping like Nightbane.

[Wōdwulf Seaxaning]

They do have some compitition in the Zombie survival horror genre RPGs. AFMbE & the upcoming Deadworld RPG.I thought there was another Zombie RPG coming out too but I can't find reference to it online.I'm going to buy Dead Reign for sure since I love PB. That said I'll buy Deadworld as well...All Hail King Zombie!!!

[ghost2020]

I know they're shooting for first time buyers, but still...this should've been a sourcebook for Beyond the Supernatural.

That way there's a 'core' book for the line (BtS 2nd ed). Then genre books (Systems Failure, Dead Reign, etc). It just makes more sense to do it that way. Plus BtS would have some support.

Just as Chaos Earth should've been a alternate campaign setting for RIFTS, using the core book for that.

Honestly, if someone wants it, they'll buy what they need to play. If they don't like Palladium books, but love the setting info to use for their own game, they're more apt to buy it because they're NOT paying for rules they'll never use.

Please Palladium, stop reprinting all the rules and skills in every new 'game'. Just make a note on it that it's a sourcebook and requires a rulebook (Nightbane, Systems Failure or BtS).

[sHaka]

I know they're shooting for first time buyers, but still...this should've been a sourcebook for Beyond the Supernatural.

That way there's a 'core' book for the line (BtS 2nd ed). Then genre books (Systems Failure, Dead Reign, etc). It just makes more sense to do it that way. Plus BtS would have some support.

Just as Chaos Earth should've been a alternate campaign setting for RIFTS, using the core book for that.

Honestly, if someone wants it, they'll buy what they need to play. If they don't like Palladium books, but love the setting info to use for their own game, they're more apt to buy it because they're NOT paying for rules they'll never use.

Please Palladium, stop reprinting all the rules and skills in every new 'game'. Just make a note on it that it's a sourcebook and requires a rulebook (Nightbane, Systems Failure or BtS).

I disagree. DR and BTS2 are completely different beasts and I'm happy that they're separate.

If I'm new to roleplaying and want Palladium's zombie game, I don't want to have to buy other books that contain the rules of the game plus some extraneous material that I may or may not like/use.

..It just makes more sense to do it that way. Plus BtS would have some support.

The beauty of the megaversal nature of Palladium is that all books support one another. So keeping Dead Reign separate means that newbies get a rules set and BTS2 players get source material regardless.

Old timers getting some reprinted rules material is the trade off for enticing new players into the hobby and keeping Palladium going. I personally can tolerate it.

[ghost2020]

[quote="Citizen Lazlo"]I'll say it.

[color=#800000][b]THERE SHOULD BE A CORE MEGAVERSAL RULES BOOK.[/b][/color]

And this comes from a guy who has been playing RPG's since 1980 and Palladium since 1982. I love Palladium but I think it would streamline things for new players and old ones too.

[/quote]



Ummmm...Yeah. What he said.

[ghost2020]

The big thing to remember about zombie movies/fiction, etc. is that it's not so much about the zombie attack.

It's about the interpersonal and group dynamics that throw a disjointed cross section of society together under horrible circumstances. Then, make that group "function" while trying to stay alive.

Then, when the group finally gets over hating each other and trying to off each other, then they have to deal with other groups. Those other groups are just as scared and desparate. That's when the fun begins.

If you're at a loss for a scenario/campaign check out the Savage Worlds' Zombie Run. I plan on re-running that using the Dead Reign material and see how different it plays. Different rules, different setup for zombies, etc. Should be fantastic.

[Rallan]

I know they're shooting for first time buyers, but still...this should've been a sourcebook for Beyond the Supernatural.

The problem is that while it would've made a great resource for Beyond The Supernatural, being a BTS sourcebook probably would've doomed it to being one of them titles where the first print run takes years to sell.

That way there's a 'core' book for the line (BtS 2nd ed). Then genre books (Systems Failure, Dead Reign, etc). It just makes more sense to do it that way. Plus BtS would have some support.

Now that would've been a good idea. BTS is already pretty much a generic horror RPG, and making it official and releasing a bunch of setting books for it would've been a great way to go. Just a shame it's too late for that now.

[GreenGhost]

I know they're shooting for first time buyers, but still...this should've been a sourcebook for Beyond the Supernatural.

That way there's a 'core' book for the line (BtS 2nd ed). Then genre books (Systems Failure, Dead Reign, etc). It just makes more sense to do it that way. Plus BtS would have some support.

Just as Chaos Earth should've been a alternate campaign setting for RIFTS, using the core book for that.

Honestly, if someone wants it, they'll buy what they need to play. If they don't like Palladium books, but love the setting info to use for their own game, they're more apt to buy it because they're NOT paying for rules they'll never use.

Please Palladium, stop reprinting all the rules and skills in every new 'game'. Just make a note on it that it's a sourcebook and requires a rulebook (Nightbane, Systems Failure or BtS).

I disagree. DR and BTS2 are completely different beasts and I'm happy that they're separate.

If I'm new to roleplaying and want Palladium's zombie game, I don't want to have to buy other books that contain the rules of the game plus some extraneous material that I may or may not like/use.

..It just makes more sense to do it that way. Plus BtS would have some support.

The beauty of the megaversal nature of Palladium is that all books support one another. So keeping Dead Reign separate means that newbies get a rules set and BTS2 players get source material regardless.

Old timers getting some reprinted rules material is the trade off for enticing new players into the hobby and keeping Palladium going. I personally can tolerate it.

Agreed... and agreed.

[GreenGhost]

I'll say it.

THERE SHOULD BE A CORE MEGAVERSAL RULES BOOK.

And this comes from a guy who has been playing RPG's since 1980 and Palladium since 1982. I love Palladium but I think it would streamline things for new players and old ones too.

A Megaversal Rules Book would be Great!!!

[CyCo]

I'll say it.

THERE SHOULD BE A CORE MEGAVERSAL RULES BOOK.

And this comes from a guy who has been playing RPG's since 1980 and Palladium since 1982. I love Palladium but I think it would streamline things for new players and old ones too.

A Megaversal Rules Book would be Great!!!

Yes, it would. I don't think we'll see it though.

[CyCo]

I'll say it.

THERE SHOULD BE A CORE MEGAVERSAL RULES BOOK.

And this comes from a guy who has been playing RPG's since 1980 and Palladium since 1982. I love Palladium but I think it would streamline things for new players and old ones too.

A Megaversal Rules Book would be Great!!!

Yes, it would. I don't think we'll see it though.

Oh, Kevin has said it won't happen, doesn't mean I don't want it though.

Oh, I understand that. Doesn't change what I said though.

[AlexM]

This book is going to be heavily marketed to the zombie fans out there. They have their own web sites, which I have been tracking down. That's the big reason it was made as a stand-alone game. The other reason is that The Wave affected the whole world, which would not work in the standard Beyond the Supernatural setting. But, there's no reason not to add a few of the DR zombies to the BTS or even Nightbane world setting, or Rift a few in to Rifts. I think players of Heroes Unlimited would be a bit surprised if their G.M. threw a few zombies at them, especially aberrations like the Thinker or Mock Zombie.



Alex Marciniszyn

[AlexM]

Most of the zombies are the classic 2 mile per hour Slouchers. A small percentage have some intelligence, like the Thinker and Mock Zombie.

A photocopy version of the complete Dead Reign RPG will be offered on our eBay auction which starts Nov. 1st.




Alex Marciniszyn