A changeling facade?

[Nekira Sudacne]

No, they're immune to any transformation so they couldn't be a shapechanging race like a changeling.

[Stormseed]

I think that would be cool as hell. If it improves the story, I say go for it - I've always liked a good story.

[Specter]

You have elf, dwarves, and trolls as Nightbane in your campaign? Wow, does that really fit the setting?

[Nekira Sudacne]

That was my FIRST thought too ...
But then, I thought about how the Darkwave talent is metamorphsis transformation ...

one exception dosn't cancel the rule

[Specter]

That was my FIRST thought too ...
But then, I thought about how the Darkwave talent is metamorphsis transformation ...

one exception dosn't cancel the rule

Huh?

[Nekira Sudacne]

That was my FIRST thought too ...
But then, I thought about how the Darkwave talent is metamorphsis transformation ...

one exception dosn't cancel the rule

Huh?

Good question. ask him.

[Tinker Dragoon]

According to Between the Shadows, other races (with less than 100 SDC) can have their facade be that of an elf, dwarf, troll ... but what of changelings ...

I admit the idea is interesting ... and could totally throw off player characters ... any thoughts?

Strictly speaking, it would not be allowed, as changelings are creatures of magic, and creatures of magic are specifically excluded as possible Facades.

On the other hand, changelings meet all the other criteria for Facade races, so you might wish to allow it anyway. However, since the Facade has none of the powers of its apparent race, a Changeling Facade could not shapechange into anything other than its Morphus (except through the use of the Reshape Facade Talent), and would thus bear the appearance of the Changeling's true form, i.e. a tall, gangly, yellow-skinned humanoid.

[Tinker Dragoon]

Indeed, Nightbane ARE shapeshifters. Their immunity to transformation extends from their innate fluidity of form, allowing them to transform themselves at will.

Still, it must be noted that no matter what race the Facade appears to be, the character's race is still Nightbane. Even if the Facade appears to be a shapeshifting race, it will still only have the shapeshifting abilities of the Nightbane R.C.C., i.e. The Becoming and possible shapeshifting Talents.

[Marcethus]

The Dragoon makes sense

[Tinker Dragoon]

True, though one notes that it specifically mentions the Nightbane transforming itself in Facade form. Presumably the Facade is impervious to the spell when cast by someone else, as the immunities listed in the RCC stats are supposed to apply in both forms.

[Nekira Sudacne]

you can have an elfish facade but you still have the facade's normal 3d6 down the line.

[Nekira Sudacne]

>> you can have an elfish facade but you still have the facade's normal 3d6 down the line. >>

Where does it say that?

Because on Page 142 of BtS it says "The facade of a Nightbane can belong to any non-supernatural humaniod race ... This includes races such as Elves, Dwarves, True Atlanteans, etc ..."

right.

but 3d6 down the line is the nightbane's facade's attributes, regardless of apperance.

remember, the 'basic" nightbane isn't really human at all in either form.

why should looking like another race change the attributes? IT DOSN'T!

[Nekira Sudacne]

>> why should looking like another race change the attributes? IT DOSN'T! >>

I just don't agree. And don't see anything in the rules that backs up what you are saying.

When it says "The facade of a Nightbane can belong to any non-supernatural humaniod race ... This includes races such as Elves, Dwarves, True Atlanteans, etc ..."

-- I take it to mean that the stats are that of the chosen race.
(Races with 100 or less SDC, without supernatural strength, and who are not creatures of magic being within the critera.)

but the nightbane themselves are a supernatural creature, even in facade. thus they use their own attributes regardless of facade.

[Tinker Dragoon]

So, I have my copy of Between the Shadows here ...

And now I'm wondering, if you wanted an elfin facade would you would up an elf like normal - or would you just roll 3d6 as per a human.

Hmm, I'd say you'd roll attributes according to the particular race (otherwise you'd get weird things like dwarfs and kobolds with high speeds and ogres and trolls with low strength), but SDC and natural abilities should be according to the Nightbane RCC.

why should looking like another race change the attributes?

Because the standard facade attributes are based on human beings: "Roll attributes normally (3D6). These are the attributes of the Facade, the human shape."

If the facade is not human, then its attributes shouldn't be either. Only the abilities of the facade which are already superhuman (high S.D.C., nightvision, high P.P.E., etc.) should supercede racial stats.

[Marcethus]

I am inclined to agree with Tinker on this because it makes sense that if your facade isn't human than your base stats for your facade wouldn't be based off the human stats of 3d6 down the line

[Nekira Sudacne]

I am inclined to agree with Tinker on this because it makes sense that if your facade isn't human than your base stats for your facade wouldn't be based off the human stats of 3d6 down the line

except that no matter what hte shape they're NOT that race. they're nightbane. period. and they have those stats. period.

I don't see how there's any wiggle room there, 3d6 down the line facade is pretty clear.

[Nekira Sudacne]

(I gotta remember to bring my books with me when I post on this forum.)

For all intents and purposes, the Nightbane Facade (as mentioned in the core NB book) is identical to human (down to the dna!), if your facade is that of an elf or troll (or changeling) - it only figures that it would have the same basic dna and racial attributes of that race.

I don't recall DNA ever being mentioned in regards to nightbane....ever.

[Nekira Sudacne]

>> I don't recall DNA ever being mentioned in regards to nightbane....ever. >>

Well, I'm pretty sure I read it ...
When I get home, I'll dig up the page numbers. It's in the first book. In or around the character creation section.

Sounds good. if you find it I'll have no choice but to conceed the point, but I just flipped though my copy and couldn't find it...

[Nekira Sudacne]

As it's now been a week and no one has found said reference in a book mentioned, can we assume that it was a mistake and no such entry exsists?

[Nekira Sudacne]

Go ahead rub it in ... (got distracted by family visiting)

I'm still re-reading my Nightbane book. If I find it, I swear I'll post it.
(and if I imagined it, we'll I'll post that too!)

Sound fair?

Till then ...

ah. Well, this is actually why I posted--couldn't tell if you couldn't find it or got caught up in something else.