Nightlords and Nightprinces

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Unread post by Specter »

Do Hound Masters wear helmets? I thought they were badass golems like the Hounds them selves.
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Re: Nightlords and Nightprinces

Unread post by UR Leader Hobbes »

Imagine you're GMing for some relatively new Nightbane players. They're in the Nightlands and they see some kind of Ba'al authority figure, attended by minions, riding in a coach drawn by slaves, etc. It's someone the players have never seen before. Without coming out and saying, "FYI, this is the Nightprince named Uxuel," or "Before you stands the one and only Nightlord called Magog!" could you convey to your players whether it was a Nightlord or a Nightprince?


I would realate it in a more of a descriptive fashion.. Being drawn across the wretched nightlands by a team of slaves like a ididarod dog team is a large and imposing figure. They seem to be of some importantce or someone of great staure.

(Drop in hints as to how the lesser minions bow or salute him/her and perhaps show a crueler side of the character when a slave fails in a task.)

The impression that the books have left me is that Nightlords, Nightprinces, and Hound Masters all wear the same kind of black armor, with Nightlord armor being significantly more ornate. The pictures always show Nightlords and Nightprinces with no helmets, and Hound Masters with helmets - fair enough. The drawings often make the Nightlords and Nightprinces look monstrous with pointy ears, fangs and tusks, crowns of horns, etc. - BUT the text descriptions say that Nightlords look like normal humans!

Obviously Nightlords and Nightprinces have very different powers, so someone with Nightlords Lore would know the difference between a matter-manipulating Lord and an illusion-casting Prince. And outside the Nightlands, you're more likely to find a Nightprince doing a Nightlord's bidding than a Nightlord executing the dirty work. But in my scenario - characters just happen to run across someone in the Nightlands - is there a visual cue to differentiate them?


Not really, unless they have been given a description.. Also Nighlords tend to look more demonic then the Nightprinces..
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Unread post by acreRake »

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Unread post by Specter »

I would suggest that the difference should be a the feeling of total dispair in their guys as the Nightlord walks into the room with hulking mass of armor and a flowing cape (doesn't matter about the color) His eyes are like that of an angry god and a forboding aura seems to drape around him.
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Unread post by Jefffar »

Personally, I doubt a Night Lord and Night Prince can be told apart by an inexperienced observer.

Especially since the Nightprince, being a master of illusion, will certanly want to foster the impression that he is an all powerful Nightlord.

In one of my games the characters thought they were fighting a Nightlord until one of them finally saw through the ilusion and clobbered the Nightprince hiding behind the curtain.

Basically, unless the characters know individual Nightlords and Night Princes on sight, they won't be able to tell one from the other without the Ba'al / mini-Ba'al giving themselves away.
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Unread post by Jefffar »

ash_wednesday wrote:
Jefffar wrote:Personally, I doubt a Night Lord and Night Prince can be told apart by an inexperienced observer.

And as an evil GM, I would take advange of that.


Sure, evil Nightprinces take advantage of it all the time.
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Unread post by Specter »

Jefffar wrote:
ash_wednesday wrote:
Jefffar wrote:Personally, I doubt a Night Lord and Night Prince can be told apart by an inexperienced observer.

And as an evil GM, I would take advange of that.


Sure, evil Nightprinces take advantage of it all the time.


There are good Nightprinces?
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Unread post by Nekira Sudacne »

basically, it's the style and ornateness.

Hounds have uniform armor. if you've seen one hound you've litterally seen 'em all. it's basic, and easially recognisable once you know what it is to begin wiht.

Hound Masters are the same way really, they have longer, more ornate horns.


the Night princes likewise, but they don't have helments


the Nightlords are distingished by their armor. every Nightlord has an increadibly detailed and ornate armor that looks nothing like anyone elses. furthermore every nightlord has their own personal style, every one is unique.
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Unread post by Jefffar »

Nerika, there are examples of variety amoung the Nightprinces (including one who happens to have satyr-style Goat's legs!) besides thes guys are "Princes" they have power and they have style and they like to flaunt it.
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Unread post by drewkitty ~..~ »

If going into a battle NL's can make a helm to fit their armor's desine....or they could make their armor seam that of just a HM or H, or whatever. They are masters of matter manipulation. And NPs can make themselves apper like the ppl about them.
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Unread post by Jefffar »

Apparently Lillith is the youngest of the Ba'al and she was only added just as the Ba'al fled earth 10000 + years ago.
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Unread post by Beelzebozo »

Ashtart is mentioned as being one of the younger Nightlords, IIRC. I don't recall anyone mentioning Lord Mocker (all that I know exists is the one blurb in Nightlands).
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Unread post by Tinker Dragoon »

Nerdbane wrote:Huh, that raises an interesting point. It's been said that Nightbane can't reproduce, but can Nightlords?


They do indeed, though whether it is by procreation or recruitment is unknown.

Jefffar wrote:Apparently Lillith is the youngest of the Ba'al and she was only added just as the Ba'al fled earth 10000 + years ago.


ahra wrote:I thought there was one younger than her. I think it was mentioned that Mocker is younger, from Egypt of the Pharoahs. I have to see if I can find teh reference again.


Beelzebozo wrote:Ashtart is mentioned as being one of the younger Nightlords, IIRC. I don't recall anyone mentioning Lord Mocker (all that I know exists is the one blurb in Nightlands).


Lilith and Magog are among the oldest Nightlords, originating from Moloch's lands around 10000 BC.

Mocker came from early dynastic Egypt, somewhere between 3150 and 2770 BC.

Ashtart originated from Persia, and became a Nightlord sometime in the 3rd century BC (which contradicts the statement in the NB main book that the youngest of the Nightlords joined their ranks in 1200 BC).
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Unread post by Jefffar »

So I guess Lillith is amoung the youngest of the "Origional" Nightlords then.
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Unread post by Beelzebozo »

I got the impression from Shadows of Light that she became a Ba'al shortly after Moloch did. If so, then the "original batch" of Moloch's first followers would have been quite small. The "1200 BC" line is probably referring to the most influential Nightlords...i.e., not guys like Ashtart who only rule one or two cities (and Ashtart doesn't even really rule, anyway...).
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Unread post by Tinker Dragoon »

Jefffar wrote:So I guess Lillith is amoung the youngest of the "Origional" Nightlords then.


Of the ones actually named in the books, probably.

Beelzebozo wrote:I got the impression from Shadows of Light that she became a Ba'al shortly after Moloch did. If so, then the "original batch" of Moloch's first followers would have been quite small.


Correct on both counts. In Nightlands, Lilith is described as being a young maiden in a village conquered by Moloch during the height of his paleolithic reign. The original Nightlords are also estimated to have been less than a hundred in number.
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Unread post by Beelzebozo »

It would also be fairly obvious that as the population of Earth expanded, the populations of Dopplegangers in the Nightlands would similarly expand...so, quite naturally, more Night Princes would have to evolve/be promoted into full Ba'al to maintain control and prepare for the eventual invasion. Hence, there are now many more than those original few.
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Unread post by Jefffar »

I get the impression that a Nightlord to be has to complete a specific ritual. I rather suspect the existing Ba'al keep a tight lid on this ritual to avoid serious competition. Though a few of the more powerful might raise a follower they feel they can trust (or rather manipulate, i doubt any Ba'al can trust anything, ever).
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Unread post by Jefffar »

Nerdbane wrote:
I think only The Dark can "make" a true Nightlord, but if a Nightlord got it into his/her head to make a baby, raise it in the Nightlands, and present it to The Dark at an appropriate age to be elevated to full Ba'al-ze-neckt status ... why not?

da Nerdbane


I think only Moloch (and possibly Mocker) have direct communication with the Dark
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Unread post by Sir_Spirit »

First, a Night Prince would be Obvious to a Nightbane because they could see right throught the Princes Illusions.
And YOU should use their illusion power constantly. Have them almost subconsciously, be constantly and subtly changing the envirement around them to suit their sadistic tastes. Put a wiff of burnt flesh inthe air, add a few screams of torment inot the back ground noise.....
Stuff like that...



Oh, and since the Nightlord serve an entity which seeks the TOTAL DESTRUCTION OF ALL LIFE, EVERYWHERE, I highly doubt they'd be allowed to CREATE life.
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Unread post by Marcethus »

well actually no one is entirely sure what the Dark wants IIRC
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Unread post by Sir_Spirit »

Marcethus wrote:well actually no one is entirely sure what the Dark wants IIRC


Except I specifically remember that it wants the destructionof all life, and that it why the Nightlord are killing everything off(they just have to do it slowly to avoid their own destruction).
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Unread post by Marcethus »

The thing is even with the Nightlords whom which the Dark grants power to there is some that do not want to destroy everything. IE Lilith, she knows that Moloch wants to destroy Humanity but she herself is only going along and biding her time till she can find a way to do something about or to counter it.
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Unread post by Jefffar »

I get the idea that the Dark has only informed Moloch of its plans (if any of the Ba'al truely know).

The Dark seems to have some sort of requirement for its work to be done by free willing evil rather than enslaved evil.
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Unread post by Marcethus »

Jefffar wrote:I get the idea that the Dark has only informed Moloch of its plans (if any of the Ba'al truely know).

The Dark seems to have some sort of requirement for its work to be done by free willing evil rather than enslaved evil.


and Lord Mocker, Mocloch's counterpart over in Russia. Again that's if the Dark has informed anyone of it's plans. It could be that Moloch is just that insane and wants the destruction of all humanity as his own goal the Dark just happens to like the idea and not care if Moloch succeeds or not but it does give the Dark an amusing show to watch.
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