Nightbane magic users

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Re: Nightbane magic users

Unread post by Agent_gir »

Nerdbane wrote:The original Nightbane (or Nightspawn) rule book has descriptions of Nightbane sorcerers and Nightbane mystics, and XP tables for them, and so on. Through the Glass Darkly has other kinds of magic users like Fleshsculptors, Mirrormages and Cybermages, but the implication in all the descriptions seems to be that these are human magic users. Can a Nightbane become a Fleshsculptor or Cybermage? If so, what kind of XP table would you put them on?

Anyone have any PCs or NPCs who are both Nightbane and TTGD-style magi? Or is that a bit too munchkin-y?

da Nerdbane


I'd just sub in the skills for one class of magic to replace the sorc skills, but keep the nightbane talent penelty of only one free talent.
and I'd use the same xp table. all magic has it's good and bad sides I don't think it would be too unbalanceing.
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Re: Nightbane magic users

Unread post by Tinker Dragoon »

Nerdbane wrote:Can a Nightbane become a Fleshsculptor or Cybermage?


At the moment, I can't think of a good reason why not. I wouldn't allow them to be Channelers, Geo-Immortals or Astral Mages though.

If so, what kind of XP table would you put them on?


Same as the Nightbane Sorcerer and Nightbane Mystic.

Based on these two classes, it would appear that any Nightbane magician should have the exact same O.C.C. skills as the human version at -5% (except for Language skills, which are not penalized). O.C.C. related skills receive no penalties, but Nightbane magicians have 2-3 fewer O.C.C. related and Secondary skills than their human counterparts. No psionics are ever gained, and P.P.E. is always as per the Nightbane R.C.C., with P.P.E progression being accelerated to 2D6+6. Some bonuses would be reduced by 1 or 2, though this is not done consistently in the book.
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Unread post by drewkitty ~..~ »

Off the top of my head I wouldn't mind it, I would have to look @ each type of specilized mage individully.

But if I did let the other mage type be used the Bane would be limited to getting the same PPE as the NB sosrror/wizard and is limited to only one 'free' talent.
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Unread post by Marcethus »

I have had a player in one of my games play a Nightbane Temporal Mage and I made them use the nightbane Sorcerer table or the temporal mage whichever was higher
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Unread post by Jockitch74 »

Hmmm...guess it all depends on the campaign. Only time I even allow a Bane mage is when the entire group is Bane. Otherwsie, I don't allow Bane mages at all. I feel their powerful enough and almost makes human mages out to be a one-trick-pony. Banes usually don't need spells with their talents (imo, which are far better anyway).

But, thats just me
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Unread post by Thinyser »

Marcethus wrote:I have had a player in one of my games play a Nightbane Temporal Mage and I made them use the nightbane Sorcerer table or the temporal mage whichever was higher

wow that would be freaking powerfull!

I might make a Nightbane temporal warrior now that you have sparked my inner munchkin.
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Unread post by Marcethus »

Thinyser wrote:
Marcethus wrote:I have had a player in one of my games play a Nightbane Temporal Mage and I made them use the nightbane Sorcerer table or the temporal mage whichever was higher

wow that would be freaking powerfull!

I might make a Nightbane temporal warrior now that you have sparked my inner munchkin.


yeah it was a pretty powerful combo but in the hands of a good player it worked out well.
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Unread post by BillionSix »

One thing I can think of is that the Nightbane can't be magically transformed, as I recall, which limits their abilities as a Fleshsculptor to messing with other people.

Still can be effective, but they lose a lot of useful spells.

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Unread post by Nekira Sudacne »

BillionSix wrote:One thing I can think of is that the Nightbane can't be magically transformed, as I recall, which limits their abilities as a Fleshsculptor to messing with other people.

Still can be effective, but they lose a lot of useful spells.

Brian


they can magically transform other humans, jsut not themselves.
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Unread post by BillionSix »

Nekira Sudacne wrote:
BillionSix wrote:One thing I can think of is that the Nightbane can't be magically transformed, as I recall, which limits their abilities as a Fleshsculptor to messing with other people.

Still can be effective, but they lose a lot of useful spells.

Brian


they can magically transform other humans, jsut not themselves.


Yeah, that's exactly what I said.

They can be good Fleshsculptors, just rather limited in their magic. Being a Nightbane would make up for that, I think.
Similar to Nightbane Mystics, and their loss of their psychic abilities.

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Unread post by Tinker Dragoon »

It also rules out everyone else, since in Nightbane, psionic potential is determined solely by class. Also, as the Fleshsculptor has no psionic powers, the requirement doesn't make any sense in the first place.
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Unread post by Marcethus »

Actually that is mentioned in the Nightbane main book under the Nightbane Sorcerer. It says something to the effect that some Nightbane's were being trained as a normal sorcerer when they underwent their becoming.
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Unread post by Glistam »

If I wanted to make a Nightbane Magic User who was a Wu Shih from Mystic China, would it just be a translation of the Wu Shih class abilities and beginning magic (-5% for skills) or would additional conversion be needed due to the addition of the mystical martial arts forms?

I had the idea of making a Wu Shih who later found out he was a Nightbane and his morpheus form is similar to a traditional Chinese dragon. I also envisioned him as at least 100 years old, but I hadn't decided on an exact age yet. I was just wondering how I could make this work while following as much of the rules as I could.
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NB magic user

Unread post by bigwhitehound »

I have a question. Would a NB have to be a full magic OCC to learn magic? Many suprenatural beings can cast spells, but are not a magic OCC.
So could a Nightbane, who is not a magic OCC, learn at least a few spells? Nothing to powerful, say a total of 4-12 spells, levels 1-6.
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Re: NB magic user

Unread post by Nekira Sudacne »

bigwhitehound wrote:I have a question. Would a NB have to be a full magic OCC to learn magic? Many suprenatural beings can cast spells, but are not a magic OCC.
So could a Nightbane, who is not a magic OCC, learn at least a few spells? Nothing to powerful, say a total of 4-12 spells, levels 1-6.


many can but not all can.

Nightbane are one that can't without learning how.

they have talents instead of spells naturally.
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Re: NB magic user

Unread post by Marcethus »

Nekira Sudacne wrote:
bigwhitehound wrote:I have a question. Would a NB have to be a full magic OCC to learn magic? Many suprenatural beings can cast spells, but are not a magic OCC.
So could a Nightbane, who is not a magic OCC, learn at least a few spells? Nothing to powerful, say a total of 4-12 spells, levels 1-6.


many can but not all can.

Nightbane are one that can't without learning how.

they have talents instead of spells naturally.


I agree with Nekira on this.
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Unread post by Glistam »

More questions relating to my last one:

  • Can a Nightbane Sorceror who is a Wu Shih from Mystic China still use their Chi Magic in Morpheous form? I'm not so sure of the answer since they no longer have access to any of their Chi abilities granted by their martial art.
  • Would filling a weapon with Chi do any extra damage to the nightlords and their minions? Or to other nightbane or supernatural creatures?
  • When considering the undead and the spells that can affect them, are the Wampyres considered to be as susceptable to these spells/abilities as Vampires are, or are Wampyres not really considered undead?
  • Will the spell that allows you to hide your chi also hide the character's Nightbane nature? What about the spell that makes the caster seem to have the essence of a demon even though nothing changes outwardly?
  • If the Nightbane has the talent that allows him to splilt out his morpheous and facade selves, can he use the Anima spells first to make one of his forms effectively autonomous, and that way maintain full control of one of the forms? The Animus is able to animate the character's body when he's not in control of it (ie, unconscious or mentally absent).
  • On that same note, if a Nightbane did split their morpheous and facade, and one of those forms died, would that mean the death of the character? If not, what would happen?
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Unread post by Tinker Dragoon »

Glistam wrote:More questions relating to my last one:

  • Can a Nightbane Sorceror who is a Wu Shih from Mystic China still use their Chi Magic in Morpheous form? I'm not so sure of the answer since they no longer have access to any of their Chi abilities granted by their martial art.


Chi Magic is completely unrelated to one's Martial Art Form, and one need not even be a martial artist to use Chi Magic. Martial Arts with Chi Mastery and Chi Kata powers are merely the gateway by which a Wu Shih is introduced to Chi Magic. Thus, a Nightbane Chi Arcanist can use Chi Magic in either facade or Morphus form as desired.

  • Would filling a weapon with Chi do any extra damage to the nightlords and their minions? Or to other nightbane or supernatural creatures?


  • In the case of Fill Object with Chi, no, unless the aforementioned beings were somehow transformed into beings of Pure Chi. On the other hand, weapons used with the Sword Chi Technique will inflict double damage to just about every creature in the game, and possibly more to Wampyr and Vampires.

  • When considering the undead and the spells that can affect them, are the Wampyres considered to be as susceptable to these spells/abilities as Vampires are, or are Wampyres not really considered undead?


  • Hard to say. I would surmise that Wampyr are not true undead, but are creatures of Negative Chi, with the associated benefits and hazards.

  • Will the spell that allows you to hide your chi also hide the character's Nightbane nature? What about the spell that makes the caster seem to have the essence of a demon even though nothing changes outwardly?


  • Chi Mask only hides the character's Chi, not any other aspects of the character's nature. Demon Mask will make the 'Bane's Chi look like that of an Infernal, as usual, but otherwise he's still detectable as a Nightbane and a supernatural creature. However, this can be a very handy spell for a Nightbane with a particularly demonic or horrific Morphus, allowing him to convincingly pose as an Infernal.

  • If the Nightbane has the talent that allows him to splilt out his morpheous and facade selves, can he use the Anima spells first to make one of his forms effectively autonomous, and that way maintain full control of one of the forms? The Animus is able to animate the character's body when he's not in control of it (ie, unconscious or mentally absent).


  • I don't know... it seems to me that the Animus of Pure Chi can only animate a body that is vacant of its Chi Spirit, which is not the case when using Splittin' Image. The character's spirit is still present and intact, but his attention is divided between the two halves of his being.

  • On that same note, if a Nightbane did split their morpheous and facade, and one of those forms died, would that mean the death of the character? If not, what would happen?


  • Unknown. If a Nightlord Avatar is killed, its associated Nightlord loses an amount of HP, SDC, and PPE equal to that of the Avatar. If one inflicts the same penalty on a Nightbane using Splittin' Image, the death of the facade would be a serious injury to the Morphus, but the death of the Morphus will almost always be fatal to the Facade.
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    Unread post by Nekira Sudacne »

    Glistam wrote:More questions relating to my last one:

    • Can a Nightbane Sorceror who is a Wu Shih from Mystic China still use their Chi Magic in Morpheous form? I'm not so sure of the answer since they no longer have access to any of their Chi abilities granted by their martial art.


    Yes, they can. you don't need chi abilites from a martial art to use chi magic, they're just a gateway.

  • Would filling a weapon with Chi do any extra damage to the nightlords and their minions? Or to other nightbane or supernatural creatures?

  • no
  • When considering the undead and the spells that can affect them, are the Wampyres considered to be as susceptable to these spells/abilities as Vampires are, or are Wampyres not really considered undead?


  • they are most definatly true undead
    just not true vampires. they're another kind of undead

  • Will the spell that allows you to hide your chi also hide the character's Nightbane nature?


  • absolutly not. ones nightbane nature is not tied to ones chi

    What about the spell that makes the caster seem to have the essence of a demon even though nothing changes outwardly?


    you'd just read like an infernal, that's all. still a nightbane though
  • If the Nightbane has the talent that allows him to splilt out his morpheous and facade selves, can he use the Anima spells first to make one of his forms effectively autonomous, and that way maintain full control of one of the forms? The Animus is able to animate the character's body when he's not in control of it (ie, unconscious or mentally absent).


  • No, it just lets you make an animus in either form as normal.

  • On that same note, if a Nightbane did split their morpheous and facade, and one of those forms died, would that mean the death of the character? If not, what would happen?


  • it means death.
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    Unread post by Glistam »

    Thank you very much for the responses. That cleared up several issues I had with attempting this combination. Now the only thing I have left to do is to figure out how to make a convincing looking infernal morpheous.
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    Unread post by Glistam »

    Tinker Dragoon wrote:
    Glistam wrote:
    • Would filling a weapon with Chi do any extra damage to the nightlords and their minions? Or to other nightbane or supernatural creatures?

    In the case of Fill Object with Chi, no, unless the aforementioned beings were somehow transformed into beings of Pure Chi. On the other hand, weapons used with the Sword Chi Technique will inflict double damage to just about every creature in the game, and possibly more to Wampyr and Vampires.

    I recently was reminded that Rifter #3 had Mystic China conversions for Chi Magic, so I went looking through that. According to those conversions, a weapon filled with Chi as per the "Fill Objects With Chi" spell will do double damage to supernatural creatures or creatures of magic, and normal damage to those beings that cannot normally be hurt by such attacks (such as vampires). Since it was printed in the Rifter, can that be considered a "cannon" answer to this? Or should I just consider that hogwash?

    Another question: I seem to remember that the "Healing Factor" super power can cleanse the body of negative Chi if infected, even if the character does not know any Chi Mastery. Does the same hold true for Nightbane? If they're infected with it, that is. I imagine that if they deliberately filled their body with negative Chi (either through Chi Mastery or the spell to reverse Chi) that they would still have the drawback of not being able to heal.
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    Unread post by Tinker Dragoon »

    Glistam wrote:I recently was reminded that Rifter #3 had Mystic China conversions for Chi Magic, so I went looking through that. According to those conversions, a weapon filled with Chi as per the "Fill Objects With Chi" spell will do double damage to supernatural creatures or creatures of magic, and normal damage to those beings that cannot normally be hurt by such attacks (such as vampires). Since it was printed in the Rifter, can that be considered a "cannon" answer to this? Or should I just consider that hogwash?


    You're free to do it how like, but the author of that article exhibits several misunderstandings of the N&S and Mystic China rules, and seems more intent on bringing Mystic China content up to a Rifts power level (the Enlightened Immortal conversions were particularly ridiculous), ignoring the conversion rules that are already present in N&S and Mystic China.

    Mystic China already specifies that the Sword Chi Technique inflicts double damage on supernatural monsters in games such as Rifts and BTS; if Fill Object With Chi was intended to do the same, it likely would have had a similar note. Also, if one reads the description of Fill Object With Chi, one can see that it is not made for combating corporeal beings, but for fighting creatures of Pure Chi.

    Another question: I seem to remember that the "Healing Factor" super power can cleanse the body of negative Chi if infected, even if the character does not know any Chi Mastery. Does the same hold true for Nightbane? If they're infected with it, that is. I imagine that if they deliberately filled their body with negative Chi (either through Chi Mastery or the spell to reverse Chi) that they would still have the drawback of not being able to heal.


    You refer to the HU Revised conversions given in N&S Revised. It stands to reason that creatures with supernatural Bio-Regeneration powers could expel Negative Chi infection in the same fashion, though during this process the healing power itself would be ineffective, i.e. no healing will take place until ALL Negative Chi has been expelled (this should apply in HU as well). Since this only applies to Negative Chi Infection, such a character can still fill with Negative Chi normally, without it being constantly expelled (naturally, healing still won't take place).

    Whether or not such beings are also immune to Dim Mak is unknown to me, though frankly I don't understand why Healing Factor offers that immunity to begin with.

    It should be noted that the HU conversions also double the Chi Base of beings with certain powers. In Nightbane, this would include creatures with Supernatural PE.
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    Unread post by Nekira Sudacne »

    Glistam wrote:
    Tinker Dragoon wrote:
    Glistam wrote:
    • Would filling a weapon with Chi do any extra damage to the nightlords and their minions? Or to other nightbane or supernatural creatures?

    In the case of Fill Object with Chi, no, unless the aforementioned beings were somehow transformed into beings of Pure Chi. On the other hand, weapons used with the Sword Chi Technique will inflict double damage to just about every creature in the game, and possibly more to Wampyr and Vampires.

    I recently was reminded that Rifter #3 had Mystic China conversions for Chi Magic, so I went looking through that. According to those conversions, a weapon filled with Chi as per the "Fill Objects With Chi" spell will do double damage to supernatural creatures or creatures of magic, and normal damage to those beings that cannot normally be hurt by such attacks (such as vampires). Since it was printed in the Rifter, can that be considered a "cannon" answer to this? Or should I just consider that hogwash?


    It is nither "cannon" or "Hogwash". it is a decent set of ideas but not offical.

    Another question: I seem to remember that the "Healing Factor" super power can cleanse the body of negative Chi if infected, even if the character does not know any Chi Mastery. Does the same hold true for Nightbane? If they're infected with it, that is. I imagine that if they deliberately filled their body with negative Chi (either through Chi Mastery or the spell to reverse Chi) that they would still have the drawback of not being able to heal.


    sinse Nightbane cannot possess the healing factor super power it's irrlelvant. remember all the regeneration super powers do not heal negatice chi that is a special power of the healing factor superpower only and bio-regeneration rates are negated by having negative chi.
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    Unread post by Glistam »

    Some interesting food for thought. I think I'm done cluttering up this topic with this subject now. Thank you for your help.
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    Unread post by Tinker Dragoon »

    Nekira Sudacne wrote:Remember all the regeneration super powers do not heal negatice chi that is a special power of the healing factor superpower only and bio-regeneration rates are negated by having negative chi.


    Since Healing Factor was the only regeneration super power that existed when the N&S conversions were written, this statement is baseless. As Healing Factor is a superhuman healing ability, it is no great stretch to imagine that supernatural healing abilities would provide similar benefits.

    On the other hand, Rifts has plenty of supernatural beasties with Bio-regeneration abilities, and the Rifts conversions mention nothing about these creatures recovering from Negative Chi Infection rapidly, so it could be argued that Healing Factor is supposed to be a unique case.
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    Unread post by Nekira Sudacne »

    Tinker Dragoon wrote:
    Nekira Sudacne wrote:Remember all the regeneration super powers do not heal negatice chi that is a special power of the healing factor superpower only and bio-regeneration rates are negated by having negative chi.


    Since Healing Factor was the only regeneration super power that existed when the N&S conversions were written, this statement is baseless. As Healing Factor is a superhuman healing ability, it is no great stretch to imagine that supernatural healing abilities would provide similar benefits.


    it's not much of a streach, but at the same time it's not truely founded on anything to do so. I feel it's easier to let it be just something for healing factor.
    Sometimes, you're like a beacon of light in the darkness, giving me some hope for humankind. ~ Killer Cyborg

    You can have something done good, fast and cheap. If you want it done good and fast, it's not going to be cheap. If you want it done fast and cheap it won't be good. If you want something done good and cheap it won't be done fast. ~ Dark Brandon
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