Nightbane Hand-to-Hand

[The Beast]

My friends and I have started a NB/N&S/HU: Century City game and I'm the only Nightbane. I made my guy an Operative from N&S, using those skills and H-t-H techniques. We agreed on allowing Nightbane with Martial Arts or Assassin H-t-H techniques to use them instead of the regular Martial Arts form found in all the main books. I'm just wondering what everyone else thinks about this.

[Beelzebozo]

Smacks of munchkinism to me, frankly, an attempt to get the best possible bonuses from everything.

It also doesn't make a lick of sense. In the first place, why would a Nightbane bother learning a martial arts form when he has natural powers that surpass those available from martial arts (keep in mind, this is the character's mindset - I know you're wanting to combine them, but the character wouldn't think that way)? In the second place, using human-based martial arts in a nonhuman form doesn't make sense to me...even a typical Ken or Barbie is substantially different than the character's ordinary Facade...greater strength, enhanced attributes, and so forth. Getting used to the martial arts and the Morphus body and combining the two would take someone a very long time.

*If* I was to allow a player to attempt a character like that, I would rule:
1) No N&SS OCC. Use the Nightbane RCC skill packages, but halve the "other" skills available (yes, I know that N&SS forms cost normal characters three skill slots, but I feel that combined with the power Nightbane already have, it is worth a higher cost).
2) No Chi-based abilities, since the focus of the character's supernatural abilities has already been put into developing Talents.
3) Until an appropriate level is reached (say 4th or so), the character can't use the martial arts style in Morphus form (but can use it in Facade, of course). This is to represent that the character has to develop his skill with both before he can combine them.

On top of that, I'd need a *damn* good back story.

[Agent_gir]

Smacks of munchkinism to me, frankly, an attempt to get the best possible bonuses from everything.

It also doesn't make a lick of sense. In the first place, why would a Nightbane bother learning a martial arts form when he has natural powers that surpass those available from martial arts (keep in mind, this is the character's mindset - I know you're wanting to combine them, but the character wouldn't think that way)? In the second place, using human-based martial arts in a nonhuman form doesn't make sense to me...even a typical Ken or Barbie is substantially different than the character's ordinary Facade...greater strength, enhanced attributes, and so forth. Getting used to the martial arts and the Morphus body and combining the two would take someone a very long time.

*If* I was to allow a player to attempt a character like that, I would rule:
1) No N&SS OCC. Use the Nightbane RCC skill packages, but halve the "other" skills available (yes, I know that N&SS forms cost normal characters three skill slots, but I feel that combined with the power Nightbane already have, it is worth a higher cost).
2) No Chi-based abilities, since the focus of the character's supernatural abilities has already been put into developing Talents.
3) Until an appropriate level is reached (say 4th or so), the character can't use the martial arts style in Morphus form (but can use it in Facade, of course). This is to represent that the character has to develop his skill with both before he can combine them.

On top of that, I'd need a *damn* good back story.

I agree except I wouldn't let any form other then Hand to hand martial arts, cyber agent dosen't get any why should a nightbane.

[Beelzebozo]

Well, to debunk your bonus issue, the N&SS forms don't actually privide any more bonuses than standard forms.

Just to debunk your "debunking"...

They *do* allow access to advanced combat moves and techniques which aren't in the outright bonuses to strike/parry/dodge, and aren't available to characters with the standard HTH skills. A N&SS form taken in total (when you consider Chi powers) puts a character on par with the normal range of HU characters. Even discounting the Chi abilities (as I suggested), the other techniques make N&SS forms superior to the "standard" combat skills.

As for learning the martial arts form before Becoming...consider this...these martial arts forms aren't the usual quickie-karate or judo that the normal HTH: Martial Arts represents. These are dedicated, professional forms. A character spends *years* to learn these forms. Keep in mind that most Nightbane undergo their Becoming in their late teens. It would have to be a *damn* good story to explain it (and most, like the old "was raised by Buddhist monks" are better suited for pulp games than Nightbane).

[Beelzebozo]

Kung fu? With or without the plugs in his brain?

[Nekira Sudacne]

I say that they use the bonuses and moves from HtH Martial arts in Morphus form, and use the normal martial art in facade form.


nowhere is it written a nightbane only fights in morhpus....

[The Beast]

Okay, to the person who voted for the first option, I'm gonna let you in on a secret: PALLADIUM BOOKS ARE WRONG!

Now allow me to explain.

Page 88 Nightspawn Main Book: All Nightspawn have innate combat abilities equivalent to Hand-to-Hand Martial Arts.

Page 89 Nightspawn Main Book: Most Nightspawn fight with combat abilities equal to Hand-to-Hand Martial Arts.

Now which is it? Is it the first? If so, then if any Nightbane PC's that are allowed to take a combat form from N&S would most likely stay in Facade form once they get higher in level because of the combat bonuses. Is it the last? It makes some sense, to me at least, that one who trained at a better combat form could use it instead of his natural combat form. Is it both? Limit those Nightbane that don't fit a Man-of-Arms OCC to just the regular H-t-H combat forms, and allow the others the option of taking the ones from N&S?

[The Beast]

In the first place, why would a Nightbane bother learning a martial arts form when he has natural powers that surpass those available from martial arts?

1 = Raised by a ninja clan (not my bane, but I do have a mutant that had this as a background story and uses Ninjistu. This was done before 2nd edition N&S was released and said mutants can't take exclusive forms).

2 = Was learning them before Dark Day because he wanted to go to Hollywood and star in movies like Kill Bill, LotR, Star Wars, ect.

3 = Had the idea to make Jared from The Pretender, but one of my friends used the Natural Genius from BTS to make a character for this game, thus ruining that idea for me. So then I decide to make Face from The A-Team and used the Operative Agent OCC to do so. After I completed the character the GM and all the other players asked me to play a Nightbane so we have an "insider" for the whole Dark Day thing. The problem here is Dark Day hasn't happened in our games timeline, and, as far as I know, Palladium never released any OCC's for Nightbane prior to Dark Day, just after it. So after pointing out that, and the fact I already finished the character, the GM said keep that as his OCC. This brought up a couple other questions, the main one being could I use my weapon kata in Morphus form. I made the character originally as a non-fighter and took a defensive combat form that ended up giving a staff weapon kata to me. The dice somehow knew this and my Morphus form is defensive in nature. Keeping this theme, I took powers that fit with the character, one of which is the shadow weapon one (can't remember right name right now). Now having done all that, I still want to use the weapon kata in Morphus form, but the kata is only available in my martial arts combat form.

[Beelzebozo]

1 = Raised by a ninja clan (not my bane, but I do have a mutant that had this as a background story and uses Ninjistu. This was done before 2nd edition N&S was released and said mutants can't take exclusive forms).

CHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEZE. Sorry, but you need a better back story than that. Frankly, I can't think of one good enough.

2 = Was learning them before Dark Day because he wanted to go to Hollywood and star in movies like Kill Bill, LotR, Star Wars, ect.

Which, considering the time involved, would probably be the quickie martial arts of the standard HTH form. Which, again, wouldn't apply to the Morphus form for the reasons I mentioned. A possible exception is the movie-style kung fu from MC (I can't remember the name). But again, not usable in Morphus, for those exact same reasons.

[Nekira Sudacne]

Okay, to the person who voted for the first option, I'm gonna let you in on a secret: PALLADIUM BOOKS ARE WRONG!

Now allow me to explain.

Page 88 Nightspawn Main Book: All Nightspawn have innate combat abilities equivalent to Hand-to-Hand Martial Arts.

Page 89 Nightspawn Main Book: Most Nightspawn fight with combat abilities equal to Hand-to-Hand Martial Arts.

Now which is it? Is it the first? If so, then if any Nightbane PC's that are allowed to take a combat form from N&S would most likely stay in Facade form once they get higher in level because of the combat bonuses. Is it the last? It makes some sense, to me at least, that one who trained at a better combat form could use it instead of his natural combat form. Is it both? Limit those Nightbane that don't fit a Man-of-Arms OCC to just the regular H-t-H combat forms, and allow the others the option of taking the ones from N&S?

even if the facade form has a "superior" hand to hand, they will ALWAYS have more advanatage in morphus form because of the natural combat bonuses ALL nightbane get. +2 strike/parry/dodge in morphus in addition to HtH martial arts sees to that.

[Nekira Sudacne]

I only allow ordianry humans to have advanced martial arts (N&S), it keeps things balanced, allows me to give humans *an* edge, and suggests that martial arts can only be learned by mortals, not supernatural creatues...

but there's one martial art that was INVENTED by a dragon in Mystic China (AKA supernatural creature...)

[Beelzebozo]

I only allow ordianry humans to have advanced martial arts (N&S), it keeps things balanced, allows me to give humans *an* edge, and suggests that martial arts can only be learned by mortals, not supernatural creatues...

but there's one martial art that was INVENTED by a dragon in Mystic China (AKA supernatural creature...)

Who's an NPC. Supernatural creatures learning and/or using martial arts should be extremely rare (as in, no PCs).

[Nekira Sudacne]

I only allow ordianry humans to have advanced martial arts (N&S), it keeps things balanced, allows me to give humans *an* edge, and suggests that martial arts can only be learned by mortals, not supernatural creatues...

but there's one martial art that was INVENTED by a dragon in Mystic China (AKA supernatural creature...)

Who's an NPC. Supernatural creatures learning and/or using martial arts should be extremely rare (as in, no PCs).

*shrug* if that's the way you want to play it. personall I have no problems with allowing it

[The Beast]

1 = Raised by a ninja clan (not my bane, but I do have a mutant that had this as a background story and uses Ninjistu. This was done before 2nd edition N&S was released and said mutants can't take exclusive forms).

CHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEZE. Sorry, but you need a better back story than that. Frankly, I can't think of one good enough.

The Nightbane background does state that all Nightbane are adopted or orphaned. If on rolled Japan, China, Korea, or other east-asian origin then it could be possible to be raised by someone knowledgeable in martial arts.

Now for the mutant, how's this?
His father was a US solider assigned to a base located on the Japanese mainland. A previous assignment had him exposed to radiation from atomic testing (never decided wether it was left over from past experiments or more recent experiments). While stationed in Japan, he managed to hook up with a Japanese girl, and one thing lead to another, and she got pregnant. He ends up getting reassigned back stateside before she informs him. Her family is now embarrassed, and she is sent to live with a relative for the duration of the pregnancy. When she gives birth, the relative leaves the child on the doorstep of a martial art school, who begins raising him.
At once the head sensei notices his potential, as two of his powers are active already. The sensei makes arrangements to send the child to another school, a ninja school. There, he taught the ways of the ninja as his powers develop fully. By age nine, all his mutant powers are present, and the child simply learns to incorporate them into his ninjitsu. Once he is old enough, he leaves them and joins the other PC's in America.

That's pretty much what I remember from his background. Please keep in mind that it was between '90 & '92 when we first started playing this game. None of us incorporated our PCs' backgrounds into the game, but nowadays we tend to do so on occasion. This means I would play him differently than I had in the past, but we don't use any of our older PCs in any of our games, as we are playing with some new people.
Having said that, there is no reason why the same couldn't be done to a Nightbane, except for the fact that their powers don't happen until puberty, whereas my mutant was born with them.

[Beelzebozo]

The Nightbane background does state that all Nightbane are adopted or orphaned. If on rolled Japan, China, Korea, or other east-asian origin then it could be possible to be raised by someone knowledgeable in martial arts.

It's still cheesy.

[Nekira Sudacne]

The Nightbane background does state that all Nightbane are adopted or orphaned. If on rolled Japan, China, Korea, or other east-asian origin then it could be possible to be raised by someone knowledgeable in martial arts.

It's still cheesy.

give me ANY character background that isn't cheezy.

[Beelzebozo]

Take a look at Cassius Marsden, under the Birmingham section of SOTS. I don't think that's cheesy, at least not in the "I was raised by a ninja clan! I'm k3wl!" sense.