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Simply that. How deeply into federal, state, local governments had the Nightlords wormed themselves as of Dark Day? I'm not looking for the book answer, just what you've used, and had work, in your campaigns.

In my games they are completly in control. The Presedent him self in an Avitar and the offices of most goverment post are held by Namtar, Doble gangers or pinces.

It adds to the "Hopeless Battle" sindrome that I feel the game is meant to have. Imagine livviing in a world where everyone you know has the potential of being a spy for your hated enamies. Even people that are looking out for your best iterest could not be trusted because the bad guys will share the same lies.

yep.. ditto...

the game i'm running... the war has been on for a good while.. and the "heroes" arn't winning...

the cops can/will shut down city blocks (no power and the like) to let Hounds perusue the enemy in relative darkness... that kinda stuff...

basically, the chance of a police station of having a pack of hounds hidden somewhere is prolly about 50/50...
thus a pretty tight hold is kept over the populous at this point...

tho i do alter how things cross over (making it more a portal thing than turning into ooze) thus there are places where tactical strikes could weaken the nightlords hold on a place... tho at this point the PCs don't really know about 'em...

I tend to treat the infiltration as about 25%, although the Nightlords *DO* have the President. They are always trying to expand that though.

I think back to things like the "Torturian" description and what happens to a certain politician in the little story blurb.

The fact that not everyone is a Nightlord minion adds to the suspense as the PCs don't know for sure who or what they are dealing with. Plus it also means that going out to protect/recruit a certain big wig and convince him of what is going on is a viable scenario option.

>>>----Therumancer--->

I think if the players feel that it is a hopeless situation then it kind of puts a dampner on things. It is good to let them get the idea that the enemy are everywhere (hehe and they are) but not that they have absolute control, within government agencies and bureacracies they are simply so huge that not everything can be monitored etc etc... sometimes these systems work against themselves because they are too slow and complicated.
Players need the pressure keeps them on their toes, but they also need to feel they can change things and that their actions make a difference.

Also the Nightlords do not work together and fight each other, be good to get within an organisation and then set things up vs a rival nightlord (let them kill themselves)

I usualy break from the whole Dark Day scenario. I prefer to make my own histories.

I've always played up the uncertainty. The main theme I try to follow is that Nightlords are in control, but very few know about it, thus they have to be careful on how they do things. The methods the Nightlords use in my game are more of a corrupting humans.

A rotting hand in a velvet glove.

I use that approach a lot. Let normal humans, ignorant of the real circumstances, do most of the low level dirty work, either out of greed (bribes and payoffs), intimidation, or peer pressure. So the Nightlords aren't in control of everything, only key people in certain areas. Of course it's had five or six years, depending on the unfolding of your game, to spread, but the Nightlords are incredibly old and can afford to take things slowly. Organizations like the Preserver Party are an example of this.

I also go by what kind of interest the Nightlords have in an area to determine what level of infiltration exists. A town of 1,000 people or less probably doesn't have any kind of infiltration. Maybe a vampire. Maybe a rogue ashmedai on a murder spree. Something to keep it interesting, but that's it.

Larger towns/smaller cities might have the mayor and/or city council members, key people in the media, utilities, and law enforcement, but that's about it. Call it possibly 30 dopplegangers, one or two Ashmedai, one or two Night Princes or other sorcerer types, and possibly half a dozen Namtar. Most of the bad guys in these circumstances will be normal humans. Some might be good people fooled into following the Minion's orders, some might be corrupt but would turn in a second if they knew the truth. Others might be more deeply involved, taking bribes and intimidating their peers, but not know the real truth. Those who do in fact know the real truth would number less than the real Minions, but somehow feel even darker. They don't have the resources to deal with large scale problems, but can always call in help from the nearest large city, which is only a few hours, or less, away.

Large cities are more tightly controlled. Most major officials and media figures are either Minions or taking their orders from Minions. The local cop shops may have small teams of Hounds with a Hound Master ready to deal with any large scale problems. One cop in 50 (and when you figure there's something like 40,000 cops in NYC, that's a lot) are ashmedai or dopplegangers.

But I've never given the Nightlords enough breathing room to shut down entire city blocks or anything like that. People would notice, and doesn't seem to fit with their methods. For a large scale operation there will always be a plausible story to handle it. The chemical plant a few blocks away is spilling dangerous fumes. There's a gas leak in the building. Something like that. People are scared, people are ignorant of the real situation, but they're not stupid. Most people, I'd like to think, are decent if not "good", and exposing the Nightlords is probably the worst possible thing that could happen from their point of view.

I like the feeling of suspense that comes from situations where enemies of the Ba'al don't know of the cop pulling them over is a Minion, and can't just assume everyone is "dirty" and open fire without penalties. This approach works especially well for ADA operatives, especially the soldier types who won't kill innocent civilians, especially not American civilians.

I also slip rogue Minions into Earth, out for their own goals. These types of creatures can really put a spin on a campaign.

It makes the cat and mouse games a lot more fun.

But that's just my opinion. Sorry for being so long winded.

I have a little different appoach to the game. In the larger cities theres compleate dominance however in the little towns there is less and less control. That doesnt mean that there is a bent sheriff with his deputies or a mayer/councel member that isnt involve in the greater scheme of things, its just that they are playing at a smaller scale. In other words I'm with Stu on this one.