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 Post subject: Differences in Edition?
Unread postPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 12:51 am
  

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Hero

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Hey, I've just decided that I've played Rifts long enough and I wanted to give PF a spin. Well I ordered myself PF second ed and I was wondering, what are the differences between the two editions? I've seen a bit of the first ed... age rules and the such. Are those still in there? I know they have a tendancy to remove cool things from their books when they remake them. Anyways... if anyone could just tell me any differences they've noticed that'd be cool.

Can't wait for it to come in.

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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 1:00 am
  

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Hero

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H2H per class (better IMO), SDC, Skills were different, and Spells per day as compared to PPE just to name a few differences

the age rules are in 2nd Ed

Lynx

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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 3:36 am
  

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Rifter® Contributer

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The differences between PF1E and PF2E are huge. PF2E is the megaversal system, which you'll be familiar with from RIFTS. PF1E predates that, and is not megaversal.

In PF1E:

Skills are handled differently
There are no physical skills
Characters don't generally have S.D.C.
P.P.E. doesn't exist.
Psionics are categorized completely differently
Many more warlock spells are wizard usable
Many psi abilities and some magic spells aren't around, and some are there which later vanish
Hand to hand is different
Monsters and Creatures are much weaker
Priests are far superior

Also, the 1E mainbook has some good content that the 2E mainbook lacks, most notably an incredible adventure called Tombs of Gersidi.

Edited for spelling.

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Last edited by J. Lionheart on Wed Oct 26, 2005 5:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 12:23 pm
  

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Champion

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It comes up often enough that there should be a sticky topic for the differences between 1ed and 2ed.


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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 6:22 pm
  

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Champion

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Here is a list of very roughly organised topics with variable degrees of usefulness.

Updating, converting, and differences
viewtopic.php?t=40863
viewtopic.php?t=35453
viewtopic.php?t=33099
viewtopic.php?t=25924
viewtopic.php?t=34939
viewtopic.php?t=26946
viewtopic.php?t=33662
viewtopic.php?t=47415
viewtopic.php?t=21353
viewtopic.php?t=37056
viewtopic.php?t=34931
viewtopic.php?t=21605

Yin Sloth updates, conversions, and differences
viewtopic.php?t=44229
viewtopic.php?t=34492
viewtopic.php?t=29906
viewtopic.php?t=21030
viewtopic.php?t=35641

Paladin
viewtopic.php?t=33140
viewtopic.php?t=36588

Mind Mage
viewtopic.php?t=30340

Hand to hand combat
viewtopic.php?t=20164
viewtopic.php?t=40076

Timiro royal family
viewtopic.php?t=31024
viewtopic.php?t=45561

Tombs of Gersidi
viewtopic.php?t=39403
viewtopic.php?t=30611

The Defilers
viewtopic.php?t=27856
viewtopic.php?t=29428

Miscellaneous
viewtopic.php?t=23783
viewtopic.php?t=45290
viewtopic.php?t=44433
viewtopic.php?t=41446
viewtopic.php?t=39403
viewtopic.php?t=36531
viewtopic.php?t=34793
viewtopic.php?t=28830
viewtopic.php?t=26455


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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 11:46 am
  

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Hero

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Thanks. This'll do nicely.

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 Post subject: a little off topic
Unread postPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 4:37 pm
  

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Comment: I have faith! My character sheet says so!!!
but I thought that Tombs of Gersidi. was availible n the main site as a d/l???

Giddoen

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 Post subject: Re: a little off topic
Unread postPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 4:43 pm
  

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Giddoen wrote:
but I thought that Tombs of Gersidi. was availible n the main site as a d/l???

Giddoen


No, that is the Arms of Nargash-Tor that is available for download.

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 Post subject: Re: a little off topic
Unread postPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 6:44 pm
  

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Giddoen wrote:
but I thought that Tombs of Gersidi. was availible n the main site as a d/l???

Giddoen


DO you know if I can find the Tombs of Gersidi adventure anywhere online?

Once A Marine- Always A Marine
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 Post subject: Re: a little off topic
Unread postPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 7:30 pm
  

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DevilDog0331 wrote:
Giddoen wrote:
but I thought that Tombs of Gersidi. was availible n the main site as a d/l???

Giddoen


DO you know if I can find the Tombs of Gersidi adventure anywhere online?

Once A Marine- Always A Marine
Semper Fi
0331


No, it hasn't been posted anywhere. :(


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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2005 1:27 am
  

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No, it isn't online. If you do find it online, it's an illegal copy.

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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 1:11 pm
  

Hi all, I need help here. I always thought that there was a Palladium fantasy first edition. And then they released a 'revised edition'. Can anyone confirm whether there was an earlier edition? I recall that when I got the Old Ones supplement the book seemed to be in a style not quite so compatible with the 'revised edition'.


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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 10:58 pm
  

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There was an unrevised First Edition, as well as at least two versions of the Revised Edition (differentiated by cover art and by the presence or absence of a "sexual deviations table").

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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 5:29 am
  

Yeah, I was hoping to get a copy of the 'unrevised' edition. I saw something dated as released in 85' and found out it was a 'revised' version. So which year was the game first released? I saw a copy ages ago back in 92'ish and realize now that I should've bought it then.

I hate SDC.


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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 7:49 am
  

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Unrevised first edition came out in 1983. Look for the black cover with a red dragon, and NO little white writing under the word "playing" in "Palladium Fantasy Role-Playing Game". Both my unrevised's are first printing 1983 ones, and my revised black-cover is a third printing 1986. I'm not sure which edition 2nd printing is, but if you've got a 1985 saying revised, it looks like only first-printing is unrevised.

The notorious "sexual deviations table" appeared in printings 1 through 4, both unrevised and revised. Printing 5 used the revised insanity tables, and I believe it is printing 6 that began using the Parkinson cover.

As for SDC though, any first edition will do. SDC for people was not introduced in to PFRPG until second edition in 1996. All unrevised and revised PFRPG 1E is strictly hitpoints for the living, with SDC for inanimates.

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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 2:11 am
  

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1st edition.. 2nd edition... it's all good. I love both. =)

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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 8:47 am
  

D-Bee

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Well if your still interested I guess is is a personal preference. If you have played a lot of rifts and other megaversal stuff then you there will be little transition from that to 2nd ed PFRP. Personally I prefer 1st/revised ed yes because of the multiple non-generic h-h skills (but you can always drag them into 2nd ed if that's what you want) but for the shear (?) scariness of not having SDC to keep you alive if you make a bad choice.


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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 9:01 am
  

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One thing that ups the scariness quotient is make all level gains go to SDC... that makes any HP damage a truly scary event for PCs

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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 9:08 am
  

D-Bee

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You know you do have a point there, I think I'll try that if/when I next run 2nd ed. there is still running down that sdc though. But thanks


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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 9:36 am
  

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Comment: My comments do not necessarily represent the views of Palladium Books.
Remember that some things will still do direct to HP... poison, for example. Death Blow, as well.

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Whiskerbutt (n): homemade RPG materials found in secondhand RPG materials.
[T]he Republicans [are] unique relics of the past. - Sourcebook 1 (revised, p. 6)
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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 9:49 am
  

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ooooh that's evil... I love it


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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 11:38 am
  

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Differances in editions?
Just my opinion...
I picked up 1st edition in 84 or 85 after getting sick of AD&D puting out so many useless books (this was still just a handful, not the hundreds they have now). Palladium had better combat, interesting classes, a cool world and it had personality. A few years ago when I got back into gaming I picked up 2nd edition, and found myself having to forgive a lot of it's faults. It's very similar to the Star Wars trilogys, You want to like the second one because the first one was so good.
In fact as I'm thinking about this it really works: SDC is like Jar Jar Binks, pointless and easily removed. PPE is like mediclorians (?), an effective way of explaining and dealing with magic, yet it removes the mystery, making it boring. 1st edition had usefull things like gods for the priests, monsters to drop in play, the price of a horse and not just the food for a horse, like there is now. Uh, how does that match Star Wars trilogy stuff? I think I lost my analogy, O well. I quit now.


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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 1:31 pm
  

D-Bee

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MrNexx wrote:
One thing that ups the scariness quotient is make all level gains go to SDC... that makes any HP damage a truly scary event for PCs


:) Thank you soooo much for this idea.


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 Post subject: Newbie (sort of)
Unread postPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 9:50 am
  

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Wanderer

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Hey -

I have been out of the RPG loop for a LONG TIME, I played Palladium First Ed. when I was a kid (teenager - whatever). Now I have kids and Palladium has seen a lot of changes.

Most reviews i have seen say that 1st ed. is better, and since that is what i know.... I will agree out of default.

My main question is this: when did 2nd ed take over? I have bought used copies of 1st ed game book, Northern Territories, Adventures on High Seas (hopefully first ed.....), Old Ones, and Monsters and Animals. I am positive all of them are first ed (they haven't come in the mail yet see) except for Adventures.

Anyway.... at what point in the books did 2nd ed take over? I am thinking it is right after "Further Adventures in the North" - is that true????

Thanks


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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 10:25 am
  

D-Bee

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My group merged them together. We prefer the SDC system and essentially went with 1st Ed with SDC and Mana.


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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 1:39 pm
  

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Thanks Tony - but do you know at what point all of the books BECAME second edition only? Like I know Palladium "rewrote" Adventures in the North..... into the 2nd edition book Wolfen Empire..... so at what point are all of the PFRPG books essentially only 2nd edition?


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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 2:02 pm
  

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rcmalamutes wrote:
Thanks Tony - but do you know at what point all of the books BECAME second edition only? Like I know Palladium "rewrote" Adventures in the North..... into the 2nd edition book Wolfen Empire..... so at what point are all of the PFRPG books essentially only 2nd edition?
book 8 Western Empire is the first 2nd ed only book in the fantasy setting Books 6 Island at the End of the World and book 7 Yin Sloth Jungles have yet to be "officially" published as 2nd ed books

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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 2:14 pm
  

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Excellent Damian -

I appreciate it.

So - let's spin this elsewhere. First - some background. I grew up an AD&D guy... sound familiar, anyone?.... then moved to PFRPG and then eventually into the White Wolf system. I stayed with WW for a long time, about seven years really. But now, I have kids. Young ones. And I am thinking back to what made me LOVE RPG's. WW is too bloody and violent and personally horrific (that's the point) but not for my elementary aged kids. I tried to get back into AD&D with them (I kept hordes of my old stuff in lots of game systems) - but each time we start up I remember why I grew bored with AD&D.

So - Palladium seemed like a fun place. I played it the least of the others - but liked its concept A LOT.

So let's really hash it out a bit..... if so many people (lots of internet buzz on this topic) like the 1st edition more than the 2nd - why is there a 2nd???

Also - what are the REAL differences?????

Thanks - just trying to de-rust.


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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 2:33 pm
  

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Let me be a bit more specific -

Once you get past Yin Sloth (I just went through the catalog) - it seems most, if not all, of the books are just areas - very few new OCC's etc, etc.... they are just supplement area books (similar to what White Wolf used to do with their "By Night" series.... you would buy a book that detailed a new city....)

So it seems to me, for the most part - that you can take the first seven books and run with it.......

I mean the Wastelands book (Book 8 I think) looks kind of cool.

So - one, is that assessment relatively accurate, and two - if not, and those books are really cool to have - is the conversion system back to 1st ed really that painful????

Thanks again


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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 2:48 pm
  

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Knight

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rcmalamutes wrote:
Let me be a bit more specific -

Once you get past Yin Sloth (I just went through the catalog) - it seems most, if not all, of the books are just areas - very few new OCC's etc, etc.... they are just supplement area books (similar to what White Wolf used to do with their "By Night" series.... you would buy a book that detailed a new city....)

So it seems to me, for the most part - that you can take the first seven books and run with it.......

I mean the Wastelands book (Book 8 I think) looks kind of cool.

So - one, is that assessment relatively accurate, and two - if not, and those books are really cool to have - is the conversion system back to 1st ed really that painful????

Thanks again
well there are a few "new" OCCs and RCCs in the 2E books but the conversion is fairly simple
eliminate sdc for critters and poof done for the most part
the skills system is slightly different but easily converted
the only rough part IMO is the class specific HTH's but even that hurdle is easily covered....(pre 2E i had already converted the magic system to utilize PPE Which I felt was more "balanced" than the spells per day method of 1E)

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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 4:00 pm
  

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Thanks again.... A lot of these questions are mute after reading so much today on the old threads. It is really convenient to be able to go through here, but at the same time painstakingly slow..... so sorry about the repetition.

Seems to me that most people like 1st ed better in general. That is good. That's the one i know. I have all the first ed books on the way, except Yin Soth, figured I'd wait a bit and see..... much easier to get than you would think, just had to hunt the net a bit.

I think a few of the 2nd ed books look interesting... but I'll wait and see how it goes.

thanks for your help.


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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 2:52 pm
  

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I always enjoyed chuckling over the probability of canibalism on the racial chart... That's gone.
So is the graphical representation of each of the major area's coins.

Section lay-outs are different (primarily the Skills section).

While both are good, the 1ed book is easier to read and find things in.

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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 5:15 pm
  

Hero

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Borast wrote:
I always enjoyed chuckling over the probability of canibalism on the reacial chart... That's gone.


i never did figure out what exactly that meant.

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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 8:21 pm
  

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Hey -

New question.

I play 1st edition, and so far I have just been trying to buy (re-bye) in most cases all of the older books.

But it seems to me that the new 2nd edition books would still give lots of color and variety to the PF world yes?

The 2nd edition books can be converted back pretty easily?????

Thanx


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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 11:18 pm
  

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Palladium Books® Freelance Writer

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Western Empire jumps out immediately; very little crunchy bits, just lots and lots of world information. Baalgor Wasteland would be significantly harder; lots of races to deal with. Mt Nimro has a bit of crunch, but its a good bit world information. Eastern Territories is the same. Library of Bletherad probably wouldn't be your best choice... it's stuffed with 2nd edition crunchy bits which, while not terribly hard to convert, would require a lot of work (I still suggest it, incidentally). northern Hinterlands and the Land of the Damned books are very crunchy... if you're pure 1st edition, converting them is a lot of work.

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Whiskerbutt (n): homemade RPG materials found in secondhand RPG materials.
[T]he Republicans [are] unique relics of the past. - Sourcebook 1 (revised, p. 6)
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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 12:48 am
  

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Well - that's kind of a bummer. Especially since so little of the Palladium world was worked out before second edition came along. i thought a few of those 2ed books looked really cool, but since I am pretty much a dad now, playing with my kids on the weekends - work to play isn't my first choice. i'd rather just play.

Maybe I will pick up a few that you suggested though for backstory ideas.

We'll see.

Thanks for the info.


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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 1:55 am
  

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Comment: My comments do not necessarily represent the views of Palladium Books.
Don't get me wrong... the world information is great. There's just some crunchy bits you won't be able to use, because they're not statted to 1st edition. And a lot of that will mean just cutting off the SDC, and maybe rebalancing HP.

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When I see someone "fisking" these days my first inclination is to think "That person doesn't have much to say, and says it in volume." -John Scalzi
Whiskerbutt (n): homemade RPG materials found in secondhand RPG materials.
[T]he Republicans [are] unique relics of the past. - Sourcebook 1 (revised, p. 6)
All Palladium Articles
Two Tales of Tellene


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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 7:29 pm
  

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thanks Mark -

I think my next book will be Yin Soth, but Northern hinterlands and West/ East Empire look cool too.

We'll just have to wait and see.

I am going to see what my kids come up with and probably start in South "Arms of Nagash Tor" if they are a more southern looking group, or a string of connected stories out of Old Ones if they tend to be more of a northern group (either that or Northen Territories).

I am going about NUCKING FUTS waiting for my books to come in...... so I am trying to glean us much info as possible from these forums so I can just jump right in when the books finally arrive.


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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 10:02 pm
  

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So for a first edition (modified actually) which is the better book - East or West???

I am thinking it fits my campaign more to stay in the east.....

Am I going to have massive conversion issues????

Yin Soth will be a given, as I want to get it... last first ed book i need.... but I think Eastern will be next.

What do you think?


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Unread postPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 10:27 pm
  

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Comment: My comments do not necessarily represent the views of Palladium Books.
Either East or West will work, but if you've got Yin-Sloth, West will tie in with that. If you have Adventures and Further Adventures in the Northern Wilderness, then East will have good tie-ins. Neither will give you conversion issues.

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Unread postPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 5:37 am
  

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Mark Hall wrote:
Either East or West will work, but if you've got Yin-Sloth, West will tie in with that. If you have Adventures and Further Adventures in the Northern Wilderness, then East will have good tie-ins. Neither will give you conversion issues.


Wives offer plenty of conversion issues though...

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Unread postPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 10:29 pm
  

D-Bee

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Umm... er...

I have no retort.

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Unread postPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 2:49 am
  

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D-Bee

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Things I noticed right away:
- The psionic illusionist is gone.
- Monks went from a quirky class of pacifist scholars to widespread friar/templar types with martial arts.
- Palladins gained supernatural abilities. Also, lots of kick attacks.
- Mercenaries went from being sub-par compared to Soldiers in the bonuses department to easily matching or exceeding them in hand to hand skills.
- A lot of the really great creature info was moved to Dragons and Gods.


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Unread postPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 3:32 am
  

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Knight

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Comment: I like magic.
PF1 laid out the majority (all?) of the creatures you see in Dragons & Gods. D&G better detailed their stats and abilities and gave pics. Even so, if you can get a copy of PF1 it's just a fun read.

For one: nude fairies. You just don't see those anymore!

ToG was a great adventure and it has some great items (Deathkiss, which you later meet in Library of Bletherad, started here).

Stuff like those individual hand to hand tables are very interesting. For people who don't think that there are enough bonuses as people level up, you could always ask your GM if they'll let you stack those original class tables with the new generic HtH skill ones.

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Unread postPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 9:09 am
  

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Comment: The Emolancer
pawsplay wrote:
Things I noticed right away:
- The psionic illusionist is gone.
- Monks went from a quirky class of pacifist scholars to widespread friar/templar types with martial arts.
- Palladins gained supernatural abilities. Also, lots of kick attacks.
- Mercenaries went from being sub-par compared to Soldiers in the bonuses department to easily matching or exceeding them in hand to hand skills.
- A lot of the really great creature info was moved to Dragons and Gods.


Both the Psionic Illusionist and the Pacifist Monk are revised in Book II: The Old Ones. And some of that great creature info was added to Monsters and Animals.

I'd also suggest RIFTS Dark Conversions for some good monsters; all are laid out with SDC stats for use in PF and Heroes as well as their MDC equivalents.

-Mike <8]

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Unread postPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 12:01 pm
  

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D-Bee

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I played first edition back in the day and loved it. But that book was stolen back in the day too. So, when my wife and I were talking about playing something new and different, I thought back to good old palladium fantasy and thought, yeah, that's what we need.

So I decided to try second edition this time around as it would tie into all the rest of my Palladium products. I was not disappointed at all. All the fun of first edition, plus I can have some Trans-dimensional Mutant Time Travelers show up too. 8-)

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Unread postPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 11:01 am
  

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D-Bee

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I recently did my first 2nd edition game. I wasn't a fan at all. We started with 1st revised (with sexual deviation chart) and one of the players picked up the 2nd edition book. We started using it, not realizing it was so vastly changed from 1st rev. I reluctantly gave in and changed everyone over to 2nd.

After about 6 months I put the game on hold, I am in the process of converting everyone back to 1st edition.

I am not a fan of the PPE system or the new way psionics are done or laid out. I liked the old system of rolling each level to see if you had specific psionics. I always put an upper limit on the number of psionics a non-mind mage can have however.

I would love to see the Tombs of the Gersidi published again. It is a fantastic adventure. But for now, it is back to 1st revised for us.


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Unread postPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 9:44 pm
  

Adventurer

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IF I recall correctly, All the 1st/Revised Ed stuff can be Purchased Via Drivethrourpg.

IMHO 2nd ED is just a Non-MDC Fantasy version of Rifts. I Still have all of my First/Revised edition books(Basically all of the first edition stuff.)

While I will admit that much of the 2e stuff does make sense, I disagree with the nerfing that the 2e has done to/with the game.(This applies to ALL Megaversal titles)

One of my PFRPG House rules is that most weapon strikes flat out ignore SDC and goes direct to Hit points. SDC is basically for Indirect and non-weapon damage.


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Unread postPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 7:35 pm
  

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Hero

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Comment: Chaplain of the CS.
Lol, SDC is one of the reasons I like PF!

From the sounds of things, 1st ed wasn't for me. I like SDC/HP, PPE/ISP etc.

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Unread postPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 1:56 am
  

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Palladin

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FreelancerMar wrote:
IF I recall correctly, All the 1st/Revised Ed stuff can be Purchased Via Drivethrourpg.

Seems some can: http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product/6 ... tion-Rules

I heard that the 2nd edition of Old Ones doesn't have stats for the Old Ones, but by comparing their stats ni the 1st Ed to the stats for gods/demons/devils in 1st ed you can approximate their power in 2nd ed.

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