A few questions about stuff

[Veknironth]

Well, these aren't even good ways around the rules. I'm disappointed in your players. For the increase weight, it takes 7 seconds to cast the spell. I'm going to assume the rock won't be in flight for 7 seconds and if it is, it'll have travelled more than 100 feet. If you use PPE Channeling rules, it takes one attack to throw the rock, then another to cast the spell. That means it'll take at least 2 seconds (if the character has 7 attacks per round) before the spell can be cast. That rock won't still be in the air.

Objects cannot be teleported in living matter, just like sin said. I believe that's covered in the FAQ.

It's legal for the 2 wizards to teach eachother spells. You have to wonder, though, how they're just so chummy. IF they had the same teacher, they'd have the same spells initially. Also, you're the GM so you can decide which spells are available after they choose their initial spells. So, they can have a great start then not learn anything else.

Sure, they can try to kill the demon. However, when it defends itself, I hope they're ready. They had also better be prepared for when some other demons catch on to this and come to visit without being summoned.

-Vek
"All very lame tricks."

[Veknironth]

Well, the real way to use that trick is to have someone with telekinesis move the pebble. People rarely dodge pebbles.

-Vek
"The tree trick won't work either."

[Ted Smythe]

A couple other PC's want to play dual wizards and the talked about picking all different spells and teaching them to eachother. Would this be legal?

In my game, I have a rule that the spellcaster teaching the spell has to be a higher level than the one learning the spell. I also prohibit my player characters from having the same OCC as another player character already in the game.

But then, I have been called 'mean' on more than once, too...

[Vidynn]

[quote="player"]A couple other PC's want to play dual wizards and the talked about picking all different spells and teaching them to eachother. Would this be legal?
They want to play a summoner, summon a demon, kill it and sell its body components. does it get an extra bonus save, what should i do to prevent this?
quote]

problems one and two have been answered very good. three: yes, thats legal. but on the other hand: the GM is in control of the spells he gives the playercharacters so they will have a hard time learning different ones. also, their first spells are completely the same (see rulesbook).
also, make the fight against the demon a hard one!

generally your players seem to be a power-gaming bunch and pain in the ***.

cheer up, they might learn it.
Vid

[drewkitty ~..~]

My PC tried to pull the classic throw something then cast increase weight on it. I tried to explain to him why he couldnt do it, but my mind went blank, what should i tell him?

you could do this.....IF your droping a rock from 50+ feet, any other situation there is not enouph time for the mage to cast a spell before it hits.

He wants to get teleport: lesser to teleport knives into badguys's heads. what do i do about this?

This would only be possible if the char had X-Ray Vision.

A couple other PC's want to play dual wizards and the talked about picking all different spells and teaching them to eachother. Would this be legal?

Yes it is technily legal, but practicly not if they are in the same group of chars, because is they were close enouph to trust each other to be comfortable in doing that, then they would be working on the same sorts of magic already, thus they would end up with the same spells. Because, the level up spells are the result of the Wizards' ongoing study of magic.

However, after saying that, they might get an extra spell through this combined effort in the study of magic, if the GM is fealing generous.

They want to play a summoner, summon a demon, kill it and sell its body components. does it get an extra bonus save, what should i do to prevent this?

You can use long range attacks while in the circle w/o loosing the bonuses to save. However, if they move outside the circle they are vunerable to attack.

If the demon fails the battle of wills then it can't take first attack. and it will wast an attack with trying to break the submission from the battle of wills, so the PC's will get one attack free, and no return attacks till the is able to break the submission. Thus the pcs will have a few attacks before the demon can attack back or run away.

Are there any other common tricks that i should know of in advance?

Yes.

[Warmaster40k]

id say allow it but heres the trick

your NPC can do it too.

the market for demons parts is swamped now a demon body in total get sonly 500 gold.
the object trick have a NPC teleprt a chamber pot in too one of the PC's head then u can call him a #$# head (lol)


so ha laugh in their faces as they try that crap.

[Borast]

My PC tried to pull the classic throw something then cast increase weight on it. I tried to explain to him why he couldnt do it, but my mind went blank, what should i tell him?

you could do this.....IF your droping a rock from 50+ feet, any other situation there is not enouph time for the mage to cast a spell before it hits.

If you had it timed EXACTLY right, a second mage could cast the spell. However, the big problem is mass and inertia. The energy needed to throw a two pound rock 30 feet would be kinda not enough to propell a 20 pound rock that far. Either way, it falls under the catagory of "next to useless."

He wants to get teleport: lesser to teleport knives into badguys's heads. what do i do about this?

This would only be possible if the char had X-Ray Vision.

Actually...this can not be done. Black letter ruling in the spell description... The best you could do is to teleport the knife above the "victim's" head. Or, you could teleport it into an empty sheath. I was actually able to use the psychic ability of Teleport Object in a manner similar to this in a legal manner - I teleported a "grenade" into the open mouth of a sea monster (and succeeded with the required % roll).

A couple other PC's want to play dual wizards and the talked about picking all different spells and teaching them to eachother. Would this be legal?

Yes it is technily legal, but practicly not if they are in the same group of chars, because is they were close enouph to trust each other to be comfortable in doing that, then they would be working on the same sorts of magic already, thus they would end up with the same spells. Because, the level up spells are the result of the Wizards' ongoing study of magic.

However, after saying that, they might get an extra spell through this combined effort in the study of magic, if the GM is fealing generous.

Other than the fact that most mages don't trust one another that much, I agree on this point. Although, I'd never give them a "bonus" spell...that's what the spell the other mage giving them is.

They want to play a summoner, summon a demon, kill it and sell its body components. does it get an extra bonus save, what should i do to prevent this?

You can use long range attacks while in the circle w/o loosing the bonuses to save. However, if they move outside the circle they are vunerable to attack.

If the demon fails the battle of wills then it can't take first attack. and it will wast an attack with trying to break the submission from the battle of wills, so the PC's will get one attack free, and no return attacks till the is able to break the submission. Thus the pcs will have a few attacks before the demon can attack back or run away.

Don't forget, the demon can attack the summoner with ranged weapons/effects as well. (And, if it succeeds in a save at 16 or better, can actually physically engage the summoner.) As for the rest, the problem would be that the summoner's ID would eventually be known to the forces he or she is screwing with, and they would NOT be happy!

Are there any other common tricks that i should know of in advance?

Yes.

I will second that...

[Adam of the Old Kingdom]

I would like to address increase weight question.

while I agree that there is not enough time to throw the object and cast the spell. Unless you had 2 mages or got one of the Men at arms to trow it because mages throw like, well likes mages.
I think it is a great idea, while some content that the object would fall short I would have it work as intended and go the ditance the originaly weighted object would have gone. I can see how people are saying that it only has so much momentum and increasing it's mass should decrease it speed but, I say that newtons law of motion prevails and that the object continues to travel at the same speed and magic, that great mysterious force that it is, increases it's mass leaving it's speed the same.
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Mages are very secretive of their secrets, they should not be open with them, unless they are spells below 3rd level.
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Doing over a summoned demon, that should cause some issues.
• Flooding the market
• Demon lord gets peeved at minions dissapearing.
• the party is fighting a demon, that ain't easy.
• how often does one break free and do a runner and the party get the blame for the destruction and hunted as evil summoners (even if pricipled)

[Adam of the Old Kingdom]

I would also like to note that a pebble can be thrown so far because of it's intial weight, but may have a higher drop off rate once it has been increased a couple hundred pounds, and may (pun not intended) drop like a rock.

whay does it have a higher drop rate?

[Adam of the Old Kingdom]

yes, I thought so.

In my mind, newton law of motion over rules the formula for momentum. all thanks to magic.

Force = mass x Velocity Squared VS "A body in motion shall remain in motion untill acted upon by a force." (or at rest)

why? you throw a 0.5 pound rock at 60mph, increas it's mass to 200lbs and it will drop to 2 mph.

by that idea if you where free falling, off a cliff say, you could increase your mass to land on the ground at a nice safe speed.

While It is good that you used the conservation of momentum, it should give way to newton laws of motion in this case.

[Adam of the Old Kingdom]

your 1st line contradicts your second paragraph.

it can not retain the same inertia and velocity. inertia is calculated based on mass and velocity, if you increase mass you must decrease velocity to maintain the inertia.

Now a TW gun that cast increase mass on a bullet as it leaves the barrell, as long as it maintains velocity (which we can't seem agree on), would give people hand held artilery. Holy ouch Batman.
a .44 magnum that fires 200lb rounds at 1000f/s (or what ever).

But TW stuff is not for this forum, strickly speaking.

[Veknironth]

Well, while an interesting mental exercise, it's impossible to find a real world example for adding mass to something while it's moving, after being acted on by an outisde force. At least, without friction that is. Certainly, it won't matter if it's being acted upon by gravity. However, gravity is an active force that continous to work on the object, pulling it. once the force is expended, we have no idea how something would react once more mass was added. The reason is, it's impossible to add said mass without applying some amount of force to the flying object. That said, I think it would slow the object down proportionately.

-Vek
"The physics of magic."

[Adam of the Old Kingdom]

I'm still going the otherway, heres a quote.

In accordance with Newton’s first law of motion: An object at rest tends to remain at rest, and an object in motion tends to continue in motion in a straight line unless acted upon by an outside force. This property of matter that causes it to resist any change of its motion in either direction or speed is referred to as inertia, which is in turn used to define mass.

Mass and inertia are linked. we will take a snap shot of an item, traveling horizontaly. the froces acting on it are, Gravity, Fluidic resistance (from the air) and the inertia (Kinetic Energy) of the object. it's horizontal velocity is slowing, while it's virticle velocity is going in reverse (heading in a downward direction)

if as you say KE is constant and the mass increases the overall speed of the object must reduce, because mass and Velocity are linked when working out KE and, thats not just the horizontal component, the verticle component will also reduce.

so lets stop the horizontal motion. the object is now accelerating downwards, picking up KE and then the mass is increased, even while accelerating the mass increase must balance against the Velocty and reduce the velocity, untill gravity can do it's stuff.

SO, by having constant KE, a falling object can be made to slow down by increaing it's mass.

I contend that the magicaly increased mass does not effect the objects velocy.

[Adam of the Old Kingdom]

but the mass isn't being increased, only the weight. it's like throwing a sphere of pumus (spel?) and in mid flight switching it with a sphere of lead.

Dear god lets not go there. we could be at this till Christmad.

Here are the Dictionary.com results for Weight and Mass.

Weight: The force with which a body is attracted to Earth or another celestial body, equal to the product of the object's mass and the acceleration of gravity.

Mass: A property of matter equal to the measure of an object's resistance to changes in either the speed or direction of its motion. The mass of an object is not dependent on gravity and therefore is different from but proportional to its weight.
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..if the object hits the ground sooner though, it won't go as far.

Yep, sure does.

Sorry dude, that was just to good to pass up.

[Veknironth]

Well, while it's a very interesting debate, I still maintain that no mage can cast that spell that quickly. Also, you can't follow that stone in midflight and make it heavier either. IT happens too fast.

-Vek
"Sorry, can't be done."

[Veknironth]

Well, of course you can increase the weight before it's thrown. However, you then lack the strength to throw the thing.

-Vek
"Unless you propell it by some magical or psionic means."

[Borast]

The ONLY way you could use this spell offensively would be by DROPPING a pebble on someone, and then only if the mage casting the spell completed the spell as you were releasing it. Otherwise, at 10m/sec^2 the pebble would be out of range before you could cast.

In this case, the increase in weight/mass/whatever would mean a greater impact at the other end, but nothing else would change.

Interesting side note: assuming no unusual atmospheric phenomenon or obstructions in it's flightpath - if you were to fire a rifle/pistol/etc at a perfectly flat trajectory (ie: "flat in relation to the surface of the Earth"), and release a duplicate bullet from the exact same level as the firing chamber of the rifle, both bullets would strike the ground at the same time. Ain't physics fun?