How long would it take?

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ShadowHawk
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How long would it take?

Unread post by ShadowHawk »

How long would it take an Atlantean stone master working 2 earth warlocks and 1 fire warlock to complete a large watermill complex? Sorta like this, https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech ... ilors.html , But not all will be used to grind grains.
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Re: How long would it take?

Unread post by Library Ogre »

Why a fire warlock? And what level are we talking about?

If you're building this in the mountains (with lots of native stone to work with), a Stone Master can do almost all the work by themselves, and quickly... lower-level Stone masters are going to be more help than anything else, except a summoned elemental. However, there's not a lot of information on how quickly they'd be able to Push and Mold stone into a building, and some things (like moving parts, such as a wooden axle for the wheel) are going to be completely outside their ability to manage... they have to drag these things into position themselves, or with the help of something else. This assumes you're under 5th level.

An Earth Warlock can do pretty much all of it once they hit 5th level... if they know the level 2 spell "Create Dirt or Clay", and the level 5 spells "Clay to Stone" and "Little Mud Mound". With LMM, they can get a lot of strong labor (carrying more than half a ton at a speed of 20), and a net of 65 PPE per casting (spend 35 to summon an LMM, which you use to make more Clay, summon more LMM, and turn clay into stone, and 100 PPE borrowed from the LMM). At 150 minutes per casting (at level 5), they can throw a LOT of labor at a project, and each LMM will be more effective than human labor (stronger, faster, need no rest or supplies). The limit there is really how long a warlock can stay awake, especially since the LMM see in the dark.

If working together, things get a bit cheaper and faster... the stone masters can quickly and cheaply pull up a lot of stone, and mold it into shape, then mold it into joining, with the LMM moving and placing. This allows the Warlock to focus on summoning a lot of LMM for labor.

Exactly how long? I'm not sure. If I were to pull numbers out of... let's say the Elemental Plane of Earth... I'd say that 5th level Warlock can manage 1 building per day, so would take about 16 days to make the described structures. I'd say it would take about 3 days for a Stone Master to do the same, so 3 stone masters would be able to do 1 per day. They simply cannot put the kind of labor in that a swarm of LMM controlled by an Earth Warlock can. These numbers are entirely made up, but if they're racing, it's going to be the 5th level warlock. The Warlock's ability to easily and cheaply create stone (26 PPE per 250# at level 5; one casting of Create Clay and one of Clay to Stone). Stone Masters can MOVE a lot of stone, but they're slower. Working together, with an adequate supply of stone for the stone masters to pull, I'd add their labor... a warlock plus a stone master will manage 4 every 3 days, and a warlock plus 3 stone masters will manage 2 per day.
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ShadowLogan
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Re: How long would it take?

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ShadowHawk wrote:How long would it take an Atlantean stone master working 2 earth warlocks and 1 fire warlock to complete a large watermill complex

Not enough information. Level of Characters? Dimension of the buildings?

My Assumptions going in at this time (and I did the math):
-I will only consider the stone structure (6m tall x 6m wide, with 0.3m thick walls and 2x floors (foundation and second floor, which might be wood, though I think I am under cutting the foundation thickness, nor does this consider a roof)
-assume stone is red brick (for density)
-I will not consider any aqueduct segments that are needed
-any PPE spent will be reset every 24hrs/1-day
-they are not on a Ley Line or Nexus, if they are they will have more PPE available to work with which will speed things up.
-the Earth Warlock is 5th Level (to have access to Clay to Stone Spell), with Average Rolls on all dice. This gives them 109PPE (each).
-the True Atlantean Stone Master has average attributes (PS of 18, PE of 16.5), plus the PPE from Marks of Heritage (12). I will consider different levels of Stone Master, but there is no level requirement like with an Earth Warlock to produce Stone.

At the structure dimensions above you would need 124,416kg of stone (Red Brick). For a single Earth Warlock at 5th Level and 109PPE (average, resetting every day), and using all available PPE (with no tricks), it would take ~283 DAYS to produce that amount of stone. Since you have x2 Warlocks, it would lower down to ~141 DAYS. That would be just the raw material for x1 building, and the complex you had as an example has x16. Now technically there are openings (door/window) that would reduce the amount of stone, and you could reduce the thickness of the walls (I'm not sure how thick the walls have to be). Also obviously a higher-level Warlock will produce more Stone per day.

A TA Stone Master using their "Levitation and TK of Stone" ability would require 2,212PPE (~36days worth of PPE) at 1st Level to move all that stone into position, this DOES NOT CONSIDER the rate of movement for the stone (Spd of 5). At 5th Level that drops down to 442PPE (~5days worth of PPE), at 10th Level that drops further to 221PPE (~2days worth of PPE), at 15th Level it could be done w/less than a day's worth of PPE. Again, this is per building and does not consider non stone aspects of the construction nor how fast they can move the stone mentally.

A TA Stone Master could also use their "Push Stone" Ability to produce stone faster than an Earth Warlock (assuming the correct conditions), it would require 1/4th the PPE to use "L&TK Stone" ability ("Push Stone" doesn't increase in level, so treat as Level 1 using "L&TK Stone" ability, or in other words x9days to produce the amount of stone). It will also only cost them 16 PPE to move all that stone (using "Pickup and Carry Stone" ability with an average PS of 18), ignoring any time factor (each casting is 1PPE per minute with a capacity of 8,812kg).
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Re: How long would it take?

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Mark Hall wrote:Why a fire warlock? And what level are we talking about?


To heat and forge the metal bits. I'm sorry, I was in a rush when I wrote the post. Stone master is at 8th level, quickly approaching 9th...1,045 away from it. The 1st earth warlock is right at the halfway point on 8th level, and the 2nd one is close enough to 7th that I am going to give it to him when they start this undertaking. The 2nd one does have create wood. The 1st one does have clay to stone, and I think create steel and iron wood. I will check and see about the other. One of the does have the little muddy spell. Fire is 7th, but very quickly approaching 8th. Within 800 pts.

Hilly area actually with lots of river and creek rocks.

And ShadowLogan, 20w, 30l, 25h. Also, there is a leyline within half a mile.
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Re: How long would it take?

Unread post by ShadowLogan »

Okay I made some adjustments (everything else remains the same from initial post):
-I adjusted for Level of the Stone Master, and put the Warlocks both at 7th Level (for simplicity)
-I adjusted the dimensions of the building to 6.1m (20ft) x 9.1m (30ft) x7.6m (25ft), I did leave the thickness of the walls and floors at 0.3m (30cm/12in/1ft), as I said this might be too thick for the walls (and not thick enough for the foundation floors).
-I also changed material to a "standard river rock", this is less dense than Red Brick in my initial post (one of the lighter density rocks that came up in a search) though as you are after a bigger building
-the building size and materials work out to needing 146,231kg of river rock per building (which is actually up)
-I will continue to ignore the presence of a Ley Line (the stated proximity increases range/duration only of spells and such by 20%, it doesn't make any extra PPE available. The only real difference for the TA is abilities last goes from 1minute to 1.2 minutes/72seconds)

Given the abundance of River Rock, I'm not sure what the Earth Warlock's are there for since they don't need to produce stone. Though if used to make stone (via Spell), at 7th Level you can produce 616kg per day per caster, doing 4 casting per day per caster (assuming Average PPE), that means it would take ~238 days to produce per caster (reduce by number of casters) for one building, and I assume no PPE/production "tricks". As for the Metal/Wood Working aspects they could engage in I'm not sure.

The TA Stone Master (just to make the stone building aspect, this is again per building):
-L&TK Stone Ability can move 1,800kg per minute, requiring 288PPE to move the required amount, or 2.94 days' worth of PPE (assuming Average PPE for level). This ignores rate of movement for the material.
-1/2 the PPE for using "Move Stone Mentally" Ability, so 1/2 the time (~1.47 days), though again this is ignoring movement rates and such.
-the time will increase depending on how far you have to move the stone into its final position. Though theoretically they could use Pickup/Carry Stone ability to preposition stuff to cut down on movement requirements (PPE wise unless you have to move extreme distances this could be done in a day I would think, spending 18 PPE to move 1/18th the mass each time for a duration of 1minute based on their Spd Attribute).

Basically, a TA Stone Master at 8th Level could build each stone building aspect in call it 3-4 days working alone, or for simplicity call it 2-3 months for the entire complex.

Add additional time for any wooden/metal-based construction, "decorating", and to make the grindstone, etc. Which I suppose the Warlocks could handle.
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Re: How long would it take?

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Sorry for not answering earlier.

The earth warlocks are there to #1 prep the site, #2 make the wheels and the other wooden structures, #3 enchant them with the iron wood spell, and #4 create steel for the fire warlock who is also the (chief, torch and candle maker, smith, artisan, etc.) to melt and mold into things, such as anvils, saws, hammers, gears, bits, etc. As I said before, this is not going to be just for the milling of grains. There will be different things going on at each one.
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Re: How long would it take?

Unread post by ShadowLogan »

How long it would take to make the Wood and Steel structural elements I can't say with the available information. The issue isn't PPE for raw materials AFAIK, the Warlocks shouldn't have to much trouble producing large amounts of the stuff in a day at their current levels. The issue is more in terms of how much they will actually need to produce per building and the time to convert the raw materials into finished products and install them:
-water wheel, it's paddles, and axel (along with whatever else it is connected to down the line)
-door/shutters for openings
-roof (shape will be a driver here to)
-floor(s)
-interior walls (if it is sectioned off, if using stone to do this, then the Stone Master will take longer as my earlier figures are for the outer walls and two floors).
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Re: How long would it take?

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Roof: a semi flat one directional, angled slightly towards the side, with the water wheel, but will stretch over out it.

Oh, also. This is going to be in an UNWALLED area...Which is about maybe between 0.25-0.375 mile from the small city of Dragon's Port. But there are guard towers near by to protect the farms and tree forts to monitor roads and notify solders and the mages if trouble happens. And there is even a bridge, that has been destroyed and rebuilt (4 times since the game began! in 2018 or 2019). Only once by players though. And they sorta had a valid reason for doing it...Slowing down an invasion to a crawl! And there is currently 2 guard tower at either end. But gliders are a thing in my world, so...Anything can happen to throw them off schedule. EVILLY LOL!!!
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Re: How long would it take?

Unread post by ShadowHawk »

3 floors.
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Re: How long would it take?

Unread post by ShadowLogan »

Actual construction time by hand I'm not to sure on how to figure that for the remaining aspects. The Amish can build a functional barn in less than a day, with 30 people I've seen online. So if you keep the construction simple, for 3 people you'd be looking at 10 days (if it scales proportionally) less actually since the Stone Master negates some aspects of the barn construction by using stone instead of wood, so we're probably looking at 2-3 days per building I would think (1/6 of it is not stone). How well elemental fragments could speed things along I don't know off hand.
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