Skill stacking

[Veknironth]

Well, this happened today in our Roll20 game. A guy is playing a Thief, who has the skill Locate Secret Compartments. He also has Carpentry and General Repair. The book says each of those gives a 5% bonus to the skill. He was interpreting that as a 5% per level increase, in addition to the 5%/level from the skill. Thus, he claimed his skill went up 15% per level. I scoffed and he said he brought it up to the forums (Fora?) and the combined wisdom was that if it said "one time only" as on page 22 with Intelligence and OCC bonuses, then it's one time only. Otherwise, it's per level. I searched the forums for that discussion but couldn't find it. Do any of you remember being involved in this? This seems like a willful misinterpretation of the Rules.

-Vek
"Looked it up, Fora is only for the ancient Roman meeting areas."

[drewkitty ~..~]

Bonuses only are what the text literally says.

This is the 1st time I've ever heard, in 25 years at this board, this particular variant of munchinisum liberalism in """""Interpreting""""" in text.

The only time a ' +x% ' bonus from a skill is only applied once. Ether at time of char creation or when that skill is acquired or when the skill it applied to is acquired.

[kiralon]

It's just a onetime bonus
However my favourite munchkinism is the cumulative addition of wp bonuses from first ed.

[ShadowLogan]

I agree it's a 1x time bonus. While I couldn't find it spelled out in PF2E's mainbook (quickly/easily), I did find it spelled out in RUE (pg301 under Skill Bonuses section, first paragraph, last sentence) and found it in the 1st Edition Robotech Main Book pg8 (this predates PF2E) and the Macross 2 RPG (pg12), it's also in 2E Robotech Main Book (pg219 manga-size). Historically it appears that Palladium's editing is hit or miss on including it in the rules as PF2E and several other main books (Rfits-MB that is outdated, HU2E, and TMNT) that I could easily check did not include the reference.

Ask the player for a link to the discussion OR provide book citation of NPCs that use this approach (preferably of the Thief OCC). Alternatively, you could tell them that your "house rule" for the game setting is those are 1x bonuses.

[Kraynic]

It is there, just hard to find... Look at page 22, left column, bottom header, and you will find a section labeled "Skill Bonuses".

It specifically states that those bonuses are "added to the base skill" and "This is a one time skill bonus.".

Basically, you need to look at Step 4 in character building (choosing race and O.C.C.) instead of looking in the section on skills... Just another quirky Palladium Books organization of information.

[Veknironth]

Well, that portion of p22 is what allowed the player to work around the rules. It clearly states that:

"The base skill level is denoted in each skill description. Bonuses reiceived by one's O.C.c. are added to that base skill. This is a one-time
skill bonus.
Characters may also have an I.Q. attribute bonus and this too is added to the base skill level as a one-time bonus."

It doesn't say anything about a bonus derived from another skill. I think it's quite clear it's a one time bonus, but I'm not running this game. I was just amused at the attempt.

And ShadowLogan, do you think this post ACTUALLY exists? I do not. I think it was just thrown out as a weak justification. "On those what do you call them...the forums". And you ask which post and then it's "Oh maybe it wasn't THAT forum, I can't remember which one, but I know I saw it."

-Vek
"A for effort."

[ShadowLogan]

@Veknironth
No, I do not thing the post actually exists. The reason I say to ask for citation is to show that it exists, without such it is possible they are misremembering such a topic. I'd even consider book NPC example(s) for such to be a justification, but I don't think you'll find an NPC that works like he/she says it does as the few I looked at do work as we've all agreed on how it works.

[Kraynic]

Well, that portion of p22 is what allowed the player to work around the rules. It clearly states that:

"The base skill level is denoted in each skill description. Bonuses reiceived by one's O.C.c. are added to that base skill. This is a one-time
skill bonus.
Characters may also have an I.Q. attribute bonus and this too is added to the base skill level as a one-time bonus."

It doesn't say anything about a bonus derived from another skill. I think it's quite clear it's a one time bonus, but I'm not running this game. I was just amused at the attempt.

While I know that getting into specific wording can be problematic sometimes, I think this is a time you can pretty logically do that as well. A bonus or modifier is a one time thing, and I don't think it is presented otherwise anywhere. The progression of a skill based on level is never called a bonus or modifier, but is the base chance before any bonuses or modifiers. Whether that sort of logic will be something that player would admit as having merit... who knows?

[Veknironth]

Well, I agree that it's a stretch of logic to say that those skill bonuses are every level. I was very surprised the player tried to argue otherwise.

-Vek
"It seems very clear to me."

[Prysus]

Well, that portion of p22 is what allowed the player to work around the rules. It clearly states that:

"The base skill level is denoted in each skill description. Bonuses reiceived by one's O.C.c. are added to that base skill. This is a one-time
skill bonus.
Characters may also have an I.Q. attribute bonus and this too is added to the base skill level as a one-time bonus."

It doesn't say anything about a bonus derived from another skill. I think it's quite clear it's a one time bonus, but I'm not running this game. I was just amused at the attempt.

Greetings and Salutations. The page goes on to say ...

"The amount in which the skill proficiency increases per level of experience is also noted in each skill description."

The skill synergy bonuses are not listed per level, so page 22 does not support that claim. Page 22 goes further into the example ...

"This means that a first level character without O.C.C. or other bonuses had a base skill proficiency ..."
"If the character gets a +10% bonus ..."

The first quote states "or other bonuses," which doesn't track with the translation: "or I.Q. bonus only, while all other bonuses are added per level." The second quote simply mentions "bonus," which is what the skill synergies are listed as.

And ShadowLogan, do you think this post ACTUALLY exists? I do not. I think it was just thrown out as a weak justification. "On those what do you call them...the forums". And you ask which post and then it's "Oh maybe it wasn't THAT forum, I can't remember which one, but I know I saw it."

-Vek
"A for effort."

I doubt it exists, but I can also believe a version does exist. And when I say "a version" I mean those times when someone comes in here to ask a question and almost everyone gives the same sensible answer based on evidence and reason, and then there's that one poster (I'll avoid names) that gives some flimsy reason why it's done differently, and the OP latches onto that one guy because it supports the answer the OP wanted in the first place.

That's all for now. Farewell and safe journeys.

[drewkitty ~..~]

Well, that portion of p22 is what allowed the player to work around the rules. It clearly states that:
...snip

-Nope, this does not allow the player to get the one time bonuses to other skills more than once. The player is just standing up with a strait faces and Being you. Hoping to get away with it. Or is terminally confused about how the skills work.
-What the PLAYER has to do is find where the text SPECIFICALLY says to add in the 'bonuses to other skills' more than once.

Skills come in a standard format: 'base skill %' along with the 'base level up bonus/growth'. And the Referenced text does not specifically talk about the 'base level up bonus/growth'.

The referenced text in the RMB (pg. 22) only applies to two things: 1) It describes how to add the OCC skill bonus into the skill. 2) It only is applicable to the Rifts Game, and only if you are using the RMB as the canon source.
➫Note: the above referenced text is in the HU2 core book pg. 44. It looks like it C&P'ed. And still referencing only the base skill %'s and the OCC bonus. Even if it does show the procedure to add in a one time bonus too.
➬Note@: all of the core book texts I've looked at only deal with explaining how to add in the OCC bonuses into the skill %'s. Nothing more. (looked at: HU2, PF1, RUE, RMB,BTS1,HU1.

Now the best description of how to add in the OCC bonus to the skill score at char creation in found in the PF RPG 1st ed pg. 18. Why....It gives an example chart of the results of adding the OCC bonus in.