Band of No-Goods

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Hell Hound
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Band of No-Goods

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I'm not new to GM'ing but this will be my first time running PFRP 1E. I played it a bunch of times back in the day.
So, this campaign will star a group of no-goods. Characters will be selfish or evil in alignment and the idea is for players to pick a humanoid race - orc, goblin, troll, wolfen, etc. Palladium showcases some interesting race choices not typical for the standard AD&D game. Witch, assassin, anti-paladin, thief, clergy of darkness or just selfish aligned wizard or fighter is all up for grabs.

All alignments would need to "align," enough so they can work together as a group. A bunch of diabolics running around will probably be a short lived campaign. :-) An example is, if all character's were aberrant then they could be part of a military faction of an evil kingdom. Maybe one PC would need to be a higher rank to keep order. Or a mix of selfish with a miscreant or aberrant…
Should be fun and a nice change of pace from the norm. Thoughts, suggestions, adventure ideas or just fun talk on the subject is welcome.
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Franko Tyrador
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Re: Band of No-Goods

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yeah, i have a thought...when are you playing and can i join?!?
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Hell Hound
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Re: Band of No-Goods

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Franko Tyrador wrote:yeah, i have a thought...when are you playing and can i join?!?


Hah! Thanks! I'm 50 and have been gaming a long time and mixing things up is very interesting to me right now. Really, anything is possible, even evil or selfish driven games if the GM and players have good attitudes towards it.

If the players bring too much heat down on themselves then there could be consequences for it and the players really help write their own story.
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Kraynic
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Re: Band of No-Goods

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Some of the earlier Rifters had some optional thoughts on Assassins and Pirates (if you are also using Book 3: The High Seas), with some of each article dealing with (and opening up) alignments. After checking, it looks like that is Rifter 2 and 6, if you have access to either of those. Might be a source of ideas for your and/or your players.

I have never tried to run a longer game with that sort of group of PCs, but that is mostly just my preference. I don't allow summoners or witches in my games, because I don't want to have to drag my imagination through what bargains would have to be struck on a regular basis. I have no issue using them for enemies though... And I do sometimes run one-shot games with PCs that are definitely on the shady side.

Sounds like something a group could get into pretty easily. I would say the main thing is for them to have a reason to be together and united so that it doesn't all fall apart in a flurry of backstabbing before the game can progress very far.
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Re: Band of No-Goods

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Kraynic wrote:Some of the earlier Rifters had some optional thoughts on Assassins and Pirates (if you are also using Book 3: The High Seas), with some of each article dealing with (and opening up) alignments. After checking, it looks like that is Rifter 2 and 6, if you have access to either of those. Might be a source of ideas for your and/or your players.

I have never tried to run a longer game with that sort of group of PCs, but that is mostly just my preference. I don't allow summoners or witches in my games, because I don't want to have to drag my imagination through what bargains would have to be struck on a regular basis. I have no issue using them for enemies though... And I do sometimes run one-shot games with PCs that are definitely on the shady side.

Sounds like something a group could get into pretty easily. I would say the main thing is for them to have a reason to be together and united so that it doesn't all fall apart in a flurry of backstabbing before the game can progress very far.


Yeah, this is just meant to be fun for a limited amount of time. However, if it's successful then maybe we can pick it back up again.
My idea of evil for the players is more the comic book variety and our group is mature so no issues with everyone being on the same page. I have no desire to RP certain aspects of evil behaviour. It's all just meant to be in fun.
I have no issues with someone being a witch because as GM I'm the one running his Lord and establishing the guard rails. And many demon lords can hate each other so good reason to have the witch sack another evil temple. I'd also try to convince a player that Bes might not be the best choice to make a major pact with. :lol:
Of course, if it all goes down the toilet then it might be a short campaign. We will see.
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kiralon
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Re: Band of No-Goods

Unread post by kiralon »

aberrant works pretty well, have their own code of honour.
Necromancers aren't necromancers, but have weird abilities.
Rodent Druids are funny
Werecreatures too.
But if you want really evil let someone play a mind mage.
I also like goblin cobblers
But it also depends on what level is involved, are they starting at level 1?
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Re: Band of No-Goods

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Well, I ran a game with a group that wasn't DESIGNED to be full of no-gooders, it just happened tha most of the PCs in the group were reprobates. It has advantages and disadvantages as a GM and it does require a bit more thinking.

One thing you need to consider before you start is the legal and law enforcement system in your world. What are the laws, what are the punishments for the laws, and what is the judicial system like? Is there a presumption of innocence? Are there attorneys? Are there judges or juries? Do they use Words of Truth to compell truthful testimony?

The other side of this is the law enforcement (dun dun!). Who investigates crimes? What are their capacities? Do they have magic or psionics? Are they open to bribes? Do they look the other way on some crimes or with crimes committed against certain races or people?

I ask this because it's very likely the group will bend or break a few laws if they're in civilization. Unless they're really careful about the crimes they commit, they're going to be investiated and maybe caught. If they are to be careful, they'll need to know what the authorities are capable of so that they can plan their crime or at least cover their tracks. If they don't, then how much will the authorities hound them? Will someone powerful hire bounty hunters or adventurers to hunt them down?

If they are out of civilization then it's much easier. You only need to worry about the people they meet. The group will very likely have no compunctins against torture, killing prisoners, or robbery. But what happens when/if someone gets the drop on them? Do you have the NPCs treat the PCs they way the PCs treat the NPCs? It's tough when the party kills a bunch of prisoners because it's easier then dealing with them, but why wouldn't someone else do the same to them?

Now here are the advantages for you as a GM. The group might spend so much time creating drama that you won't need to set up a lot of things. You just have the world react to them. You also might have the PCs backstabbing each other so much that it will be fun to watch. They also might have such little teamwork that arguments fire up and varying motives clash into all sorts of interesting situations.

The disadvantages are that the group might not work together and fail repeatedly because of that lack of cohesion. They also can make more work for you when you need the world to react to their actions and you need to apply consquences. And it can be difficult to create a reason for the group to be together, in game. The players will likely work together a little bit because they will all be real people talking to the characters being played by the GM. It's meta-gaming, but it will generally keep the group together because people usually don't want to upset the other people.

Now, in game, you might need to find a reason for them to remain together. Maybe they're related, or they have to band together against a greater enemy, eventhough they don't like each other. They could be part of an organization with a strong hierarchy (military, thieves guild, etc.) that can create consequences for stepping out of line.

-Vek
"If you want, PM me, and I can act as the authorities or what have you to take the burden of tracking your PCs."
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Re: Band of No-Goods

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kiralon wrote:aberrant works pretty well, have their own code of honour.
Necromancers aren't necromancers, but have weird abilities.
Rodent Druids are funny
Werecreatures too.
But if you want really evil let someone play a mind mage.
I also like goblin cobblers
But it also depends on what level is involved, are they starting at level 1?


I agree. goblin cobblers are cool and we'll see if someone picks a mind mage. I'll make a post describing the group when they're done.

Yes, they are 1st level.

Veknironth wrote:Well, I ran a game with a group that wasn't DESIGNED to be full of no-gooders, it just happened tha most of the PCs in the group were reprobates. It has advantages and disadvantages as a GM and it does require a bit more thinking.

One thing you need to consider before you start is the legal and law enforcement system in your world. What are the laws, what are the punishments for the laws, and what is the judicial system like? Is there a presumption of innocence? Are there attorneys? Are there judges or juries? Do they use Words of Truth to compell truthful testimony?

The other side of this is the law enforcement (dun dun!). Who investigates crimes? What are their capacities? Do they have magic or psionics? Are they open to bribes? Do they look the other way on some crimes or with crimes committed against certain races or people?

I ask this because it's very likely the group will bend or break a few laws if they're in civilization. Unless they're really careful about the crimes they commit, they're going to be investiated and maybe caught. If they are to be careful, they'll need to know what the authorities are capable of so that they can plan their crime or at least cover their tracks. If they don't, then how much will the authorities hound them? Will someone powerful hire bounty hunters or adventurers to hunt them down?

If they are out of civilization then it's much easier. You only need to worry about the people they meet. The group will very likely have no compunctins against torture, killing prisoners, or robbery. But what happens when/if someone gets the drop on them? Do you have the NPCs treat the PCs they way the PCs treat the NPCs? It's tough when the party kills a bunch of prisoners because it's easier then dealing with them, but why wouldn't someone else do the same to them?

Now here are the advantages for you as a GM. The group might spend so much time creating drama that you won't need to set up a lot of things. You just have the world react to them. You also might have the PCs backstabbing each other so much that it will be fun to watch. They also might have such little teamwork that arguments fire up and varying motives clash into all sorts of interesting situations.

The disadvantages are that the group might not work together and fail repeatedly because of that lack of cohesion. They also can make more work for you when you need the world to react to their actions and you need to apply consquences. And it can be difficult to create a reason for the group to be together, in game. The players will likely work together a little bit because they will all be real people talking to the characters being played by the GM. It's meta-gaming, but it will generally keep the group together because people usually don't want to upset the other people.

Now, in game, you might need to find a reason for them to remain together. Maybe they're related, or they have to band together against a greater enemy, eventhough they don't like each other. They could be part of an organization with a strong hierarchy (military, thieves guild, etc.) that can create consequences for stepping out of line.

-Vek
"If you want, PM me, and I can act as the authorities or what have you to take the burden of tracking your PCs."


Some great and helpful stuff in there. Thanks. And good for you for going where your players took you. Hopefully everyone had a good time.
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Veknironth
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Re: Band of No-Goods

Unread post by Veknironth »

Well, it was both fun and frustrating. With no unifying force, the group was a loose collection of people working together with no real galvanizing purpose. As such, they bickered quite often and were at odds a lot. This I found to be realistic. There was no reason for them to be friends. However, they so frequently ignored clues or plot hooks that it became difficult to keep them on track for anything. Eventually the characters, who had no real reason to band together and never created one, we such at odds that they found reasons to split the group frequently. Not that bad for narrative but you have to scale down the encounters as a result.

-Vek
"Did someone say Mind Mage? Never trust them."
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Kraynic
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Re: Band of No-Goods

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Veknironth wrote:"Did someone say Mind Mage? Never trust them."


That goes double for one that is also a changeling.
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Re: Band of No-Goods

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One way to help band the party together is to give them someone they dislike more than each other and a link to each other.

Make them all great heroes whom a tough bad guy caught and defeated.
Then have an unknown benefactor reincarnate them into what they currently are
Have them all wake up somewhere with a ward for each player that react to each other (like glow brighter the closer they get to each other. On a wrist is good so if they put them all together they tingle and glow. I tend to have the party wake up in an Inn with the room paid for for another 2 days and double the normal starting money and no memory of who they are.
Have a noticeable group of small buffs when they are together with more buffs the more there are.
When someone gets too far away they suddenly get the sensation of having trouble breathing, or it feels like they are walking on sharp rocks, or can't sleep, or don't heal etc.
But mostly, what one of the warded does to another is felt by them all, so if one of them starts a fight with one, he starts a fight with all of them.

Then they can have similar, but not exactly the same dreams about each other and recognising each other somehow even though they look different and are even of different races. This nightmare leads up too a fight where the bbeg slaughtered each one of them, and they all get to see it from different perspectives and know that there is someone out there that has killed them once and would likely do so again.
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Re: Band of No-Goods

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kiralon wrote:One way to help band the party together is to give them someone they dislike more than each other and a link to each other.

Make them all great heroes whom a tough bad guy caught and defeated.
Then have an unknown benefactor reincarnate them into what they currently are
Have them all wake up somewhere with a ward for each player that react to each other (like glow brighter the closer they get to each other. On a wrist is good so if they put them all together they tingle and glow. I tend to have the party wake up in an Inn with the room paid for for another 2 days and double the normal starting money and no memory of who they are.
Have a noticeable group of small buffs when they are together with more buffs the more there are.
When someone gets too far away they suddenly get the sensation of having trouble breathing, or it feels like they are walking on sharp rocks, or can't sleep, or don't heal etc.
But mostly, what one of the warded does to another is felt by them all, so if one of them starts a fight with one, he starts a fight with all of them.

Then they can have similar, but not exactly the same dreams about each other and recognising each other somehow even though they look different and are even of different races. This nightmare leads up too a fight where the bbeg slaughtered each one of them, and they all get to see it from different perspectives and know that there is someone out there that has killed them once and would likely do so again.


Cool. Thanks. Yes, prior to playing it will be established why the group is together. Also, there is a nice paragraph write up describing how to play an evil character in the alignment section.
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Re: Band of No-Goods

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So the group is coming together.
One of the players is an orc Priest of Darkness. I'm allowing him soldier hth so a god of war or combat would be good or something that warrants a soldier hth. He will probably be aberrant or miscreant.
Any suggestion for a suitable God? Modeus comes to mind as well as Anhur.
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Re: Band of No-Goods

Unread post by kiralon »

Lopnel would also be a good choice.
Then send him off to find the Hammer of Jejua (Holy hammer of the red god)
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Re: Band of No-Goods

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kiralon wrote:Lopnel would also be a good choice.
Then send him off to find the Hammer of Jejua (Holy hammer of the red god)


Thanks. Missed that guy.

Right now we have:

Troll mercenary fighter - aberrant
Wolfen Warlock (fire/ earth) - aberrant
Changeling (Human) Diabolist - anarchist
Orc Priest o' Darkness - either aberrant or miscreant

One option right now is to have them part of the Wolfen Empire.
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