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 Post subject: Castle Wall SDC
Unread postPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2020 1:05 am
  

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Wanderer

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Is there a list anywhere of suggested SDC for castle walls, towers, and buildings somewhere? I thought I had seen something like that, but can't find it now. Unless I was confusing it with what is in the Compendium of Weapons, Armour, and Castles... Of course, that book uses a whole different system based on the number of hits a wall can take from certain categories of siege weaponry.


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 Post subject: Re: Castle Wall SDC
Unread postPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2020 4:49 am
  

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Champion

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*Cough* Citytech *Cough*


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 Post subject: Re: Castle Wall SDC
Unread postPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2020 7:49 am
  

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Knight

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Kraynic wrote:
Is there a list anywhere of suggested SDC for castle walls, towers, and buildings somewhere? I thought I had seen something like that, but can't find it now. Unless I was confusing it with what is in the Compendium of Weapons, Armour, and Castles... Of course, that book uses a whole different system based on the number of hits a wall can take from certain categories of siege weaponry.

Per say, I'm not sure for complex structures themselves (like towers, buildings) are covered in a PF title (I know of a few in Rifts) but.. Palladium Fantasy 2E pg47 lists various SDC values for a lot of things that might be useful. Different types of doors, manacles, containers, furniture, rope, wagons, and of course walls (including castle).


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 Post subject: Re: Castle Wall SDC
Unread postPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2020 9:31 am
  

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Demon Lord Extraordinaire

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Page 46 of the main book.


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 Post subject: Re: Castle Wall SDC
Unread postPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2020 9:56 am
  

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Wanderer

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I didn't even think to check 2E Fantasy books (although I only own the first 2). I had thought that book 2 included some info like this when talking about the different types of forts, but there is nothing in either edition about how much punishment the walls can take. I'll have a look at CityTech.


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 Post subject: Re: Castle Wall SDC
Unread postPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2020 1:07 pm
  

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Palladium Books® Freelance Writer

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I tend to default to the Wall of Stone SDC from Warlock spells, tbh.

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 Post subject: Re: Castle Wall SDC
Unread postPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2020 1:32 pm
  

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Knight

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Kraynic wrote:
I didn't even think to check 2E Fantasy books (although I only own the first 2). I had thought that book 2 included some info like this when talking about the different types of forts, but there is nothing in either edition about how much punishment the walls can take. I'll have a look at CityTech.

Main Book for Second Edition pg47, left column, toward the bottom of the list... "Wall: Castle/Defense Stone - 600 S.D.C. per sq 10 ft (3m)", it also lists Wood, Stockade, Light Stone and Heavy Stone values.

Sure you have to do some math to figure out the area of the castle walls.


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 Post subject: Re: Castle Wall SDC
Unread postPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2020 1:47 pm
  

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Adventurer

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ShadowLogan wrote:
Kraynic wrote:
I didn't even think to check 2E Fantasy books (although I only own the first 2). I had thought that book 2 included some info like this when talking about the different types of forts, but there is nothing in either edition about how much punishment the walls can take. I'll have a look at CityTech.

Main Book for Second Edition pg47, left column, toward the bottom of the list... "Wall: Castle/Defense Stone - 600 S.D.C. per sq 10 ft (3m)", it also lists Wood, Stockade, Light Stone and Heavy Stone values.

Sure you have to do some math to figure out the area of the castle walls.


i have a few diagrams lying around in some books of mine- castle walls are 2-5 feet thick in the inner areas or where rooms/hallways cut through them to make windows (so that'd be a five-foot wall, the hallway, and another five-foot wall minimum) and about 12-20 feet thick in the outer/solid areas. possibly thicker close to the base, as castle walls were sloped the first 5-8 feet or so to make them harder to sabotage by sappers and such as well as stablitiy. this isn't exact since much of it depends on the castle's construction itself.

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 Post subject: Re: Castle Wall SDC
Unread postPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2020 3:43 pm
  

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Wanderer

Joined: Sat Aug 17, 2019 4:01 pm
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I probably spent way more time on it than I should have. I took the number of impacts from the Compendium of Weapons, Armour, and Castles and figured the average and maximum damage based on siege weapon damage based on the projectile sizes for those impacts. Then I averaged them out, did a fair bit of eyeballing, rounding, and came up with the following based on the wall rating system per section of wall. This is assuming that not all walls will be constructed with similar quality of materials/workmanship.

Rating 1 (2m thick): 350-1000 sdc
Rating 2 (5m thick): 850-2500 sdc
Rating 3 (7m thick): 1200-4000 sdc
Rating 4 (10m thick): 2000-6000 sdc
Rating 5 (13m thick): 3000-9000 sdc

I figure I will use those as the ranges for new construction, reducing from there based on time, past damage, and possible lack of maintenance.


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 Post subject: Re: Castle Wall SDC
Unread postPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2020 3:52 pm
  

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Monk

Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2000 1:01 am
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Kraynic wrote:
I probably spent way more time on it than I should have. I took the number of impacts from the Compendium of Weapons, Armour, and Castles and figured the average and maximum damage based on siege weapon damage based on the projectile sizes for those impacts. Then I averaged them out, did a fair bit of eyeballing, rounding, and came up with the following based on the wall rating system per section of wall. This is assuming that not all walls will be constructed with similar quality of materials/workmanship.

Rating 1 (2m thick): 350-1000 sdc
Rating 2 (5m thick): 850-2500 sdc
Rating 3 (7m thick): 1200-4000 sdc
Rating 4 (10m thick): 2000-6000 sdc
Rating 5 (13m thick): 3000-9000 sdc

I figure I will use those as the ranges for new construction, reducing from there based on time, past damage, and possible lack of maintenance.

Are these per foot, per 2 feet, etc...?

Made from what sort of stone?

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 Post subject: Re: Castle Wall SDC
Unread postPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2020 4:58 pm
  

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Adventurer

Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 1:00 pm
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Location: a west coast
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
Kraynic wrote:
I probably spent way more time on it than I should have. I took the number of impacts from the Compendium of Weapons, Armour, and Castles and figured the average and maximum damage based on siege weapon damage based on the projectile sizes for those impacts. Then I averaged them out, did a fair bit of eyeballing, rounding, and came up with the following based on the wall rating system per section of wall. This is assuming that not all walls will be constructed with similar quality of materials/workmanship.

Rating 1 (2m thick): 350-1000 sdc
Rating 2 (5m thick): 850-2500 sdc
Rating 3 (7m thick): 1200-4000 sdc
Rating 4 (10m thick): 2000-6000 sdc
Rating 5 (13m thick): 3000-9000 sdc

I figure I will use those as the ranges for new construction, reducing from there based on time, past damage, and possible lack of maintenance.

Are these per foot, per 2 feet, etc...?


Made from what sort of stone?


Castle walls aren't solid stone block, actually. the first foot or two is fitted stone, then the middle is done with loose stone litter, gravel, and sand, which makes it more resistant to impact from large blows like trebuchts and such.

also means that if you try to blow a hole to run through with magic or advanced explosives, you're S.O.L. because the inner part of the wall collapses on itself...

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 Post subject: Re: Castle Wall SDC
Unread postPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2020 5:13 pm
  

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Monk

Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2000 1:01 am
Posts: 15948
Location: Eastvale, calif
Orin J. wrote:
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
Kraynic wrote:
I probably spent way more time on it than I should have. I took the number of impacts from the Compendium of Weapons, Armour, and Castles and figured the average and maximum damage based on siege weapon damage based on the projectile sizes for those impacts. Then I averaged them out, did a fair bit of eyeballing, rounding, and came up with the following based on the wall rating system per section of wall. This is assuming that not all walls will be constructed with similar quality of materials/workmanship.

Rating 1 (2m thick): 350-1000 sdc
Rating 2 (5m thick): 850-2500 sdc
Rating 3 (7m thick): 1200-4000 sdc
Rating 4 (10m thick): 2000-6000 sdc
Rating 5 (13m thick): 3000-9000 sdc

I figure I will use those as the ranges for new construction, reducing from there based on time, past damage, and possible lack of maintenance.

Are these per foot, per 2 feet, etc...?


Made from what sort of stone?


Castle walls aren't solid stone block, actually. the first foot or two is fitted stone, then the middle is done with loose stone litter, gravel, and sand, which makes it more resistant to impact from large blows like trebuchts and such.

also means that if you try to blow a hole to run through with magic or advanced explosives, you're S.O.L. because the inner part of the wall collapses on itself...

That does not even close come to answering the questions I posed.

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Q's on this board need canon answers first for the question that was asked. Then you can post your own opinions or house rules, they need to be listed/declareds as your own opinions or house rules.

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Delight
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 Post subject: Re: Castle Wall SDC
Unread postPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2020 5:44 pm
  

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Adventurer

Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 1:00 pm
Posts: 526
Location: a west coast
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
Orin J. wrote:
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
Kraynic wrote:
I probably spent way more time on it than I should have. I took the number of impacts from the Compendium of Weapons, Armour, and Castles and figured the average and maximum damage based on siege weapon damage based on the projectile sizes for those impacts. Then I averaged them out, did a fair bit of eyeballing, rounding, and came up with the following based on the wall rating system per section of wall. This is assuming that not all walls will be constructed with similar quality of materials/workmanship.

Rating 1 (2m thick): 350-1000 sdc
Rating 2 (5m thick): 850-2500 sdc
Rating 3 (7m thick): 1200-4000 sdc
Rating 4 (10m thick): 2000-6000 sdc
Rating 5 (13m thick): 3000-9000 sdc

I figure I will use those as the ranges for new construction, reducing from there based on time, past damage, and possible lack of maintenance.

Are these per foot, per 2 feet, etc...?


Made from what sort of stone?


Castle walls aren't solid stone block, actually. the first foot or two is fitted stone, then the middle is done with loose stone litter, gravel, and sand, which makes it more resistant to impact from large blows like trebuchts and such.

also means that if you try to blow a hole to run through with magic or advanced explosives, you're S.O.L. because the inner part of the wall collapses on itself...

That does not even close come to answering the questions I posed.


i'm assuming given how it starts he intended it to be 2m' X 2m' X (insert thickness here) and thought everyone would understand the inferral.

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 Post subject: Re: Castle Wall SDC
Unread postPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2020 6:25 pm
  

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Wanderer

Joined: Sat Aug 17, 2019 4:01 pm
Posts: 86
Location: Montana
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
Kraynic wrote:
I probably spent way more time on it than I should have. I took the number of impacts from the Compendium of Weapons, Armour, and Castles and figured the average and maximum damage based on siege weapon damage based on the projectile sizes for those impacts. Then I averaged them out, did a fair bit of eyeballing, rounding, and came up with the following based on the wall rating system per section of wall. This is assuming that not all walls will be constructed with similar quality of materials/workmanship.

Rating 1 (2m thick): 350-1000 sdc
Rating 2 (5m thick): 850-2500 sdc
Rating 3 (7m thick): 1200-4000 sdc
Rating 4 (10m thick): 2000-6000 sdc
Rating 5 (13m thick): 3000-9000 sdc

I figure I will use those as the ranges for new construction, reducing from there based on time, past damage, and possible lack of maintenance.

Are these per foot, per 2 feet, etc...?

Made from what sort of stone?


The Compendium never actually defines it beyond a "section" of wall (unless I missed something) on pg 150. It is probably safe to go with the 10x10 section, and maybe expanding that based on the type of wall vs the type of siege weaponry/spell being used against it.

Edit: As for the sort of stone, that would be why it is a range instead of a set number. Lower number for more fragile materials, higher number for more durable materials. That is why the Compendium lists the various ratings of walls taking impacts in a range instead of a set number.


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