What is the Deal with House Krugazi (Western Empire)?

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What is the Deal with House Krugazi (Western Empire)?

Unread post by Hotrod »

(See p110 of Western Empire for relevant geographic details and p101 for Krugazi's house description)

In the Middle Kingdoms, there are two regional houses: House Kaze and House Krugazi. Kaze is the overlord of the northern Middle Kingdoms, and Krugazi is the overlord of the Southern Middle Kingdoms.
The two houses are secret allies that plan to wage a war for independence from the Empire.At first glance, this seems pretty straightforward. The problem here is the details.

The first problem is that the Middle Kingdoms are presented as a single region with a single regional capital: Epiphany, which is the seat of House Kaze. There should be a second regional capital.

The second problem is that, while this region was broken up in two, there is only one one of the six provinces that belongs to the Southern Middle Kingdoms. Text passages suggest that this division should be more even than five provinces being subordinate to Kaze, while a single province also counts as its own region.

The third problem is that the book gives me no idea of where House Krugazi actually is. Every other regional overlord family has its base of operations in its regional capital, but only a single province belongs to the region, and that province isn't ruled by House Krugazi, but rather House Cureau.

Finally, the provinces themselves aren't arranged into a division of north and south. Two or three of those provinces effectively straddle the northern and southern halves of the Middle Kingdoms.

Any ideas on how to interpret House Krugazi and which provinces they rule?
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Re: What is the Deal with House Krugazi (Western Empire)?

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1. The Southern Middle Kingdoms. Regional Capitol: Ghowell. Ruling Noble Family: House Krugazi. (Page 51)

2. Whats marked as house Cureau is house krugazis region and is the middle kingdoms south, number 3 on map on page 110. The rest of them is the middle kingdoms

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They made 1 too many houses for the middle kingdoms
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Re: What is the Deal with House Krugazi (Western Empire)?

Unread post by Reagren Wright »

kiralon wrote:1. The Southern Middle Kingdoms. Regional Capitol: Ghowell. Ruling Noble Family: House Krugazi. (Page 51)

2. Whats marked as house Cureau is house krugazis region and is the middle kingdoms south, number 3 on map on page 110. The rest of them is the middle kingdoms

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They made 1 too many houses for the middle kingdoms


Agree. Editing error.
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Re: What is the Deal with House Krugazi (Western Empire)?

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Agreed that they made one too many houses, but I also posit that the Middle Kingdoms should be split up in half, with three provinces going to each (or at a minimum, 4 to Kaze and 2 to Krugazi), since both houses are supposed to have similar influence/power, and having only a single province seems rather lame.

Since they are allies with essentially identical outlooks, loyalties, and personalities, this makes little difference in the balance of power. I'm just trying to sort it out for the purposes of making my map.
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Re: What is the Deal with House Krugazi (Western Empire)?

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I thought about this a while back for a campaign I was running in the Western Empire, and tried to explain it as follows:

The day-to-day running of Cureau province is done by House Cureau in the same way as all the other provinces of the Empire. The province was upgraded to a kind of "dual status" as a "Region" with a single "Province" and House Krugazi was appointed as Overlords to govern the region and rein in the rebellious provincial rulers House Cureau. They rule from the same capital city (Ghowell - presumably from their own separate palace and/or administrative buildings) and do whatever governmental tasks that regional overlords do that provincial rulers don't (including the building of a Regional army). They presumably have representatives in Caer Itom that have the same standing as other overlords, whereas House Cureau doesn't. But the plan didn't work, as it says on page 110, House Cureau have had a profound impact on Overlord Krugazi's decision to stand against the Emperor. I don't think there is one more house than there should be because it talks about this interaction between House Cureau and House Krugazi.

The Southern Middle Kingdoms is basically a small Region that contains only one Province. If you're doing a map and want to include heraldry for all the regional houses then technically you should include House Krugazi as overlords of the Southern Middle Kingdoms. House Cureau are merely provincial lords working beneath them (vassals?), the same as all the other provincial houses. Hope that helps!
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Re: What is the Deal with House Krugazi (Western Empire)?

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Soldier of Od wrote:I thought about this a while back for a campaign I was running in the Western Empire, and tried to explain it as follows:

The day-to-day running of Cureau province is done by House Cureau in the same way as all the other provinces of the Empire. The province was upgraded to a kind of "dual status" as a "Region" with a single "Province" and House Krugazi was appointed as Overlords to govern the region and rein in the rebellious provincial rulers House Cureau. They rule from the same capital city (Ghowell - presumably from their own separate palace and/or administrative buildings) and do whatever governmental tasks that regional overlords do that provincial rulers don't (including the building of a Regional army). They presumably have representatives in Caer Itom that have the same standing as other overlords, whereas House Cureau doesn't. But the plan didn't work, as it says on page 110, House Cureau have had a profound impact on Overlord Krugazi's decision to stand against the Emperor. I don't think there is one more house than there should be because it talks about this interaction between House Cureau and House Krugazi.

The Southern Middle Kingdoms is basically a small Region that contains only one Province. If you're doing a map and want to include heraldry for all the regional houses then technically you should include House Krugazi as overlords of the Southern Middle Kingdoms. House Cureau are merely provincial lords working beneath them (vassals?), the same as all the other provincial houses. Hope that helps!



As I see it, there are two key arguments supporting the case for putting Krugazi over one province:
+The map on p51 defines their domain as a single-province region.
+The text on the Cureau Province indicates that it's part of the Southern Middle Kingdoms, and none of the other provinces share that indicator.

There are four arguments supporting the case for putting Krugazi over more than one province:
+p101 states "After the Middle Kingdoms' last bid for secession, the Imperial House decided to literally divide the Kingdoms by breaking a third of it away from the main troublemakers." Cureau Province alone is 1/6th of the Middle Kingdoms (and less by land acreage).
+Having multiple noble families with jurisdiction over the same province is confusing and wasteful.
+On p16 of Western Empire, House Krugazi is identified as being just under House Kaze in terms of political power and influence, and Cureau Province alone does not have the wealth or resources to support this based on its description.
+The Krugazi region is called "The Southern Middle Kingdoms" which suggests that there should be more than one "kingdom" (province)

The intent and spirit of the text overall seems to support putting Krugazi over two provinces, while only one is specified in the letter of the text. Therefore, I think I'll put House Krugazi over Skryme Province as well. In my head-canon, House Cureau will be an important partner/ally of Krugazi in the province. I'll say that House Cureau used to be the provincial power and still owns a great deal of land/influence.
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Re: What is the Deal with House Krugazi (Western Empire)?

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Hotrod wrote:
Soldier of Od wrote:I thought about this a while back for a campaign I was running in the Western Empire, and tried to explain it as follows:

The day-to-day running of Cureau province is done by House Cureau in the same way as all the other provinces of the Empire. The province was upgraded to a kind of "dual status" as a "Region" with a single "Province" and House Krugazi was appointed as Overlords to govern the region and rein in the rebellious provincial rulers House Cureau. They rule from the same capital city (Ghowell - presumably from their own separate palace and/or administrative buildings) and do whatever governmental tasks that regional overlords do that provincial rulers don't (including the building of a Regional army). They presumably have representatives in Caer Itom that have the same standing as other overlords, whereas House Cureau doesn't. But the plan didn't work, as it says on page 110, House Cureau have had a profound impact on Overlord Krugazi's decision to stand against the Emperor. I don't think there is one more house than there should be because it talks about this interaction between House Cureau and House Krugazi.

The Southern Middle Kingdoms is basically a small Region that contains only one Province. If you're doing a map and want to include heraldry for all the regional houses then technically you should include House Krugazi as overlords of the Southern Middle Kingdoms. House Cureau are merely provincial lords working beneath them (vassals?), the same as all the other provincial houses. Hope that helps!



As I see it, there are two key arguments supporting the case for putting Krugazi over one province:
+The map on p51 defines their domain as a single-province region.
+The text on the Cureau Province indicates that it's part of the Southern Middle Kingdoms, and none of the other provinces share that indicator.

There are four arguments supporting the case for putting Krugazi over more than one province:
+p101 states "After the Middle Kingdoms' last bid for secession, the Imperial House decided to literally divide the Kingdoms by breaking a third of it away from the main troublemakers." Cureau Province alone is 1/6th of the Middle Kingdoms (and less by land acreage).
+Having multiple noble families with jurisdiction over the same province is confusing and wasteful.
+On p16 of Western Empire, House Krugazi is identified as being just under House Kaze in terms of political power and influence, and Cureau Province alone does not have the wealth or resources to support this based on its description.
+The Krugazi region is called "The Southern Middle Kingdoms" which suggests that there should be more than one "kingdom" (province)

The intent and spirit of the text overall seems to support putting Krugazi over two provinces, while only one is specified in the letter of the text. Therefore, I think I'll put House Krugazi over Skryme Province as well. In my head-canon, House Cureau will be an important partner/ally of Krugazi in the province. I'll say that House Cureau used to be the provincial power and still owns a great deal of land/influence.

I totally get your reasoning for this, and in my own games I also considered adding Skyrme province to the Southern Middle Kingdoms to give them a bit more meaning, but the book is pretty clear that it does only contain the one province. If you're making a map for your own use with a modified version of the Western Empire then that's all good, but we all love your maps and like to steal them for ourselves (!) and I for one would much prefer a map that actually sticks to the book rather than a modified version. If you're trying to make an "official" map then I would think you would need to follow what the existing maps in the books show. How difficult would it be for you to make one following the established canon, and one adding Skyrme to House Krugazi's rule? As if you're not already busy enough! :D
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Re: What is the Deal with House Krugazi (Western Empire)?

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Soldier of Od wrote:
Hotrod wrote:
Soldier of Od wrote:I thought about this a while back for a campaign I was running in the Western Empire, and tried to explain it as follows:

The day-to-day running of Cureau province is done by House Cureau in the same way as all the other provinces of the Empire. The province was upgraded to a kind of "dual status" as a "Region" with a single "Province" and House Krugazi was appointed as Overlords to govern the region and rein in the rebellious provincial rulers House Cureau. They rule from the same capital city (Ghowell - presumably from their own separate palace and/or administrative buildings) and do whatever governmental tasks that regional overlords do that provincial rulers don't (including the building of a Regional army). They presumably have representatives in Caer Itom that have the same standing as other overlords, whereas House Cureau doesn't. But the plan didn't work, as it says on page 110, House Cureau have had a profound impact on Overlord Krugazi's decision to stand against the Emperor. I don't think there is one more house than there should be because it talks about this interaction between House Cureau and House Krugazi.

The Southern Middle Kingdoms is basically a small Region that contains only one Province. If you're doing a map and want to include heraldry for all the regional houses then technically you should include House Krugazi as overlords of the Southern Middle Kingdoms. House Cureau are merely provincial lords working beneath them (vassals?), the same as all the other provincial houses. Hope that helps!



As I see it, there are two key arguments supporting the case for putting Krugazi over one province:
+The map on p51 defines their domain as a single-province region.
+The text on the Cureau Province indicates that it's part of the Southern Middle Kingdoms, and none of the other provinces share that indicator.

There are four arguments supporting the case for putting Krugazi over more than one province:
+p101 states "After the Middle Kingdoms' last bid for secession, the Imperial House decided to literally divide the Kingdoms by breaking a third of it away from the main troublemakers." Cureau Province alone is 1/6th of the Middle Kingdoms (and less by land acreage).
+Having multiple noble families with jurisdiction over the same province is confusing and wasteful.
+On p16 of Western Empire, House Krugazi is identified as being just under House Kaze in terms of political power and influence, and Cureau Province alone does not have the wealth or resources to support this based on its description.
+The Krugazi region is called "The Southern Middle Kingdoms" which suggests that there should be more than one "kingdom" (province)

The intent and spirit of the text overall seems to support putting Krugazi over two provinces, while only one is specified in the letter of the text. Therefore, I think I'll put House Krugazi over Skryme Province as well. In my head-canon, House Cureau will be an important partner/ally of Krugazi in the province. I'll say that House Cureau used to be the provincial power and still owns a great deal of land/influence.

I totally get your reasoning for this, and in my own games I also considered adding Skyrme province to the Southern Middle Kingdoms to give them a bit more meaning, but the book is pretty clear that it does only contain the one province. If you're making a map for your own use with a modified version of the Western Empire then that's all good, but we all love your maps and like to steal them for ourselves (!) and I for one would much prefer a map that actually sticks to the book rather than a modified version. If you're trying to make an "official" map then I would think you would need to follow what the existing maps in the books show. How difficult would it be for you to make one following the established canon, and one adding Skyrme to House Krugazi's rule? As if you're not already busy enough! :D


Humph. As a rule, I try to make my maps as canon-accurate as possible and only deviate from canon if it's conflicting with itself. While I definitely see a spirit-vs-letter-of-the-text conflict, the only specific mappable information I have is consistent, so I'll suck it up and put Krugazi in one province.

Humph.

I'd love to get Bill Coffin and Kevin in the same room for five minutes to sort this out. Well, that, and get them to finish Land of the Damned 3.
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Re: What is the Deal with House Krugazi (Western Empire)?

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Hotrod wrote:
Soldier of Od wrote:
Hotrod wrote:
Soldier of Od wrote:I thought about this a while back for a campaign I was running in the Western Empire, and tried to explain it as follows:

The day-to-day running of Cureau province is done by House Cureau in the same way as all the other provinces of the Empire. The province was upgraded to a kind of "dual status" as a "Region" with a single "Province" and House Krugazi was appointed as Overlords to govern the region and rein in the rebellious provincial rulers House Cureau. They rule from the same capital city (Ghowell - presumably from their own separate palace and/or administrative buildings) and do whatever governmental tasks that regional overlords do that provincial rulers don't (including the building of a Regional army). They presumably have representatives in Caer Itom that have the same standing as other overlords, whereas House Cureau doesn't. But the plan didn't work, as it says on page 110, House Cureau have had a profound impact on Overlord Krugazi's decision to stand against the Emperor. I don't think there is one more house than there should be because it talks about this interaction between House Cureau and House Krugazi.

The Southern Middle Kingdoms is basically a small Region that contains only one Province. If you're doing a map and want to include heraldry for all the regional houses then technically you should include House Krugazi as overlords of the Southern Middle Kingdoms. House Cureau are merely provincial lords working beneath them (vassals?), the same as all the other provincial houses. Hope that helps!



As I see it, there are two key arguments supporting the case for putting Krugazi over one province:
+The map on p51 defines their domain as a single-province region.
+The text on the Cureau Province indicates that it's part of the Southern Middle Kingdoms, and none of the other provinces share that indicator.

There are four arguments supporting the case for putting Krugazi over more than one province:
+p101 states "After the Middle Kingdoms' last bid for secession, the Imperial House decided to literally divide the Kingdoms by breaking a third of it away from the main troublemakers." Cureau Province alone is 1/6th of the Middle Kingdoms (and less by land acreage).
+Having multiple noble families with jurisdiction over the same province is confusing and wasteful.
+On p16 of Western Empire, House Krugazi is identified as being just under House Kaze in terms of political power and influence, and Cureau Province alone does not have the wealth or resources to support this based on its description.
+The Krugazi region is called "The Southern Middle Kingdoms" which suggests that there should be more than one "kingdom" (province)

The intent and spirit of the text overall seems to support putting Krugazi over two provinces, while only one is specified in the letter of the text. Therefore, I think I'll put House Krugazi over Skryme Province as well. In my head-canon, House Cureau will be an important partner/ally of Krugazi in the province. I'll say that House Cureau used to be the provincial power and still owns a great deal of land/influence.

I totally get your reasoning for this, and in my own games I also considered adding Skyrme province to the Southern Middle Kingdoms to give them a bit more meaning, but the book is pretty clear that it does only contain the one province. If you're making a map for your own use with a modified version of the Western Empire then that's all good, but we all love your maps and like to steal them for ourselves (!) and I for one would much prefer a map that actually sticks to the book rather than a modified version. If you're trying to make an "official" map then I would think you would need to follow what the existing maps in the books show. How difficult would it be for you to make one following the established canon, and one adding Skyrme to House Krugazi's rule? As if you're not already busy enough! :D


Humph. As a rule, I try to make my maps as canon-accurate as possible and only deviate from canon if it's conflicting with itself. While I definitely see a spirit-vs-letter-of-the-text conflict, the only specific mappable information I have is consistent, so I'll suck it up and put Krugazi in one province.

Humph.

I'd love to get Bill Coffin and Kevin in the same room for five minutes to sort this out. Well, that, and get them to finish Land of the Damned 3.

Sorry, Hotrod! Didn't mean to spoil your fun! :oops:
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Re: What is the Deal with House Krugazi (Western Empire)?

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Nah, no problem, Soldier. You're making me stay true to my own self-ascribed ideals. That's the best and most useful kind of constructive criticism to get.
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Re: What is the Deal with House Krugazi (Western Empire)?

Unread post by Reagren Wright »

I'm at work so I can check this out to be sure. This list of Provincial Houses below the Western Empire map. Does it list House Cureau or
House Krugazi? Clearly there was an editing issue that got missed by Kevin and company. The Midddle Kingdom section talks about Krugazi.
Then when it comes to the details of the Southern Middle Kingdom they switch over to House Cureau. It's not mentioned once thorugh the
entire Middle Kingdom section just House Kaze and Krugazi. I can gurantee its an editing issue. I'm willing to bet you can toss out House Cureau.
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Re: What is the Deal with House Krugazi (Western Empire)?

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Reagren Wright wrote:I'm at work so I can check this out to be sure. This list of Provincial Houses below the Western Empire map. Does it list House Cureau or
House Krugazi? Clearly there was an editing issue that got missed by Kevin and company. The Midddle Kingdom section talks about Krugazi.
Then when it comes to the details of the Southern Middle Kingdom they switch over to House Cureau. It's not mentioned once thorugh the
entire Middle Kingdom section just House Kaze and Krugazi. I can gurantee its an editing issue. I'm willing to bet you can toss out House Cureau.


As I see it, there are two central issues. The first issue is whether the Southern Middle Kingdoms are in fact a single province or whether they should be two (there's some canon conflict on this, but the specific description/map indicate it's just one). The second is, which noble house actually controls that province: Cureau or Krugazi? I'm suspecting editing errors on both of those issues.
Last edited by Hotrod on Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What is the Deal with House Krugazi (Western Empire)?

Unread post by kiralon »

Reagren Wright wrote:I'm willing to bet you can toss out House Cureau.

Id bet on this myself as well
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Re: What is the Deal with House Krugazi (Western Empire)?

Unread post by Reagren Wright »

Hotrod wrote:
Reagren Wright wrote:I'm at work so I can check this out to be sure. This list of Provincial Houses below the Western Empire map. Does it list House Cureau or
House Krugazi? Clearly there was an editing issue that got missed by Kevin and company. The Midddle Kingdom section talks about Krugazi.
Then when it comes to the details of the Southern Middle Kingdom they switch over to House Cureau. It's not mentioned once thorugh the
entire Middle Kingdom section just House Kaze and Krugazi. I can gurantee its an editing issue. I'm willing to bet you can toss out House Cureau.


As I see it, there are two central issues. The first issue is whether the Southern Middle Kingdoms are in fact a single province or whether they should be two (there's some canon conflict on this, but the specific description/map indicate it's just one). The second is, which noble house actually controls that province: Cureau or Krugazi? I'm suspecting editing errors on both of those issues.


Aah ha I was right. Check out page 17. It list House Kaze as the Northern Regional House and
House Krugazi as Southern Regional House. The other five Provincial Houses: Hihhod, Cureanu,
Skryme, Elail, and Alragin. House Cureau should not exist. I'm betting Bill wrote part of this and
Kevin went over and did some changes. This is why I always try to triple check my stuff so I
avoid this continuity errors. This is simply bad editing and failed proofreading. It happens.
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Re: What is the Deal with House Krugazi (Western Empire)?

Unread post by Soldier of Od »

Well, I'm obviously in a minority here, but I still think that Houses Krugazi and Cureau both exist, Krugazi as the overlords and Cureau beneath them as the provincial lords. It is a unique arrangement in the empire, but then it is a unique region, created in a special way to a particular reason. My reasoning for this is that (as I pointed out above) both houses are mentioned in the same sentence (page 110), one influencing the other. That's not just a name change that got missed in editing, that's two different houses.

But... While looking again at the book, I found this little gem that might please some of you :D - Although it is not listed under the heading of "Southern Middle Kingdoms", the opening line in the description of Skryme Province reads: "A province bordering the Tarldet Plains Region in the Southern Middle Kingdoms". (written with initial capitals) :shock:
So maybe Skryme is (or at least was initially indented to be) part of the Southern Middle Kingdoms region (fitting in the with "one third" reference and plural "Kingdoms"), but the authors changed their minds, or it was missed off when it came to drawing the map on page 17 and the location of the heading on page 110.
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Re: What is the Deal with House Krugazi (Western Empire)?

Unread post by kiralon »

Me, I would guess Bill had one idea, and kevin attempted to change it to fit the house kaze/krugazi thing.
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Re: What is the Deal with House Krugazi (Western Empire)?

Unread post by Hotrod »

Soldier of Od wrote:Well, I'm obviously in a minority here, but I still think that Houses Krugazi and Cureau both exist, Krugazi as the overlords and Cureau beneath them as the provincial lords. It is a unique arrangement in the empire, but then it is a unique region, created in a special way to a particular reason. My reasoning for this is that (as I pointed out above) both houses are mentioned in the same sentence (page 110), one influencing the other. That's not just a name change that got missed in editing, that's two different houses.

But... While looking again at the book, I found this little gem that might please some of you :D - Although it is not listed under the heading of "Southern Middle Kingdoms", the opening line in the description of Skryme Province reads: "A province bordering the Tarldet Plains Region in the Southern Middle Kingdoms". (written with initial capitals) :shock:
So maybe Skryme is (or at least was initially indented to be) part of the Southern Middle Kingdoms region (fitting in the with "one third" reference and plural "Kingdoms"), but the authors changed their minds, or it was missed off when it came to drawing the map on page 17 and the location of the heading on page 110.

Aha! A specific canon conflict! To arms! To arms! House Krugazi shall take back Skryme for the glory of the Southern Middle Kingdoms!

In the grand tradition of the interwebs, I shall invoke confirmation bias and take this as incontrovertible evidence that I can put the heraldry of Krugazi over Skryme.

(If you want a separate version with Kaze's over it, just PM me when it's all done and I'll make the switch back and email it to you)
Hotrod
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Soldier of Od
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Re: What is the Deal with House Krugazi (Western Empire)?

Unread post by Soldier of Od »

Hotrod wrote:
Soldier of Od wrote:Well, I'm obviously in a minority here, but I still think that Houses Krugazi and Cureau both exist, Krugazi as the overlords and Cureau beneath them as the provincial lords. It is a unique arrangement in the empire, but then it is a unique region, created in a special way to a particular reason. My reasoning for this is that (as I pointed out above) both houses are mentioned in the same sentence (page 110), one influencing the other. That's not just a name change that got missed in editing, that's two different houses.

But... While looking again at the book, I found this little gem that might please some of you :D - Although it is not listed under the heading of "Southern Middle Kingdoms", the opening line in the description of Skryme Province reads: "A province bordering the Tarldet Plains Region in the Southern Middle Kingdoms". (written with initial capitals) :shock:
So maybe Skryme is (or at least was initially indented to be) part of the Southern Middle Kingdoms region (fitting in the with "one third" reference and plural "Kingdoms"), but the authors changed their minds, or it was missed off when it came to drawing the map on page 17 and the location of the heading on page 110.

Aha! A specific canon conflict! To arms! To arms! House Krugazi shall take back Skryme for the glory of the Southern Middle Kingdoms!

In the grand tradition of the interwebs, I shall invoke confirmation bias and take this as incontrovertible evidence that I can put the heraldry of Krugazi over Skryme.

(If you want a separate version with Kaze's over it, just PM me when it's all done and I'll make the switch back and email it to you)

No need mate - it is definitely open to question now, with totally conflicting information. Could easily go either way, so you go make your map how you prefer! :-D
I liked the idea anyway, just didn't think the text supported it - but now it (kinda) does!
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ShadowHawk
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Re: What is the Deal with House Krugazi (Western Empire)?

Unread post by ShadowHawk »

Are you doing another map? If so, might I suggest doing all of the boarders in different colors, that way you can tell which house rules over which province.

And yeah, we ran into basically the same problem. It's rather nutty.
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ShadowHawk
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Re: What is the Deal with House Krugazi (Western Empire)?

Unread post by ShadowHawk »

kiralon wrote:Me, I would guess Bill had one idea, and kevin attempted to change it to fit the house kaze/krugazi thing.

Yeah. Maybe.

Ah the Web of Intrigue, and how I am drawn to it.
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Hotrod
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Re: What is the Deal with House Krugazi (Western Empire)?

Unread post by Hotrod »

ShadowHawk wrote:Are you doing another map? If so, might I suggest doing all of the boarders in different colors, that way you can tell which house rules over which province.

And yeah, we ran into basically the same problem. It's rather nutty.


Yes, I am, and I'm doing regional borders by color as you describe. See the Western Empire map project thread on this forum.
Hotrod
Author, Rifter Contributor, and Map Artist
Duty's Edge, a Rifts novel. Available as an ebook, PDF,or printed book.
Check out my maps here!
Also, check out my Instant NPC Generators!
Like what you see? There's more on my Patreon Page.
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