SDC T-men

Diabolists, Techno-Wizards & Psionicists, Oh my! All things that are Magics and Psionics in all Palladium Games.

Moderators: Immortals, Supreme Beings, Old Ones

User avatar
Library Ogre
Palladium Books® Freelance Writer
Posts: 9801
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2001 1:01 am
Comment: My comments do not necessarily represent the views of Palladium Books.
Location: Texas
Contact:

SDC T-men

Unread post by Library Ogre »

Have these ever been laid out? I cannot recall if they've been officially published anywhere.
-overproduced by Martin Hannett

When I see someone "fisking" these days my first inclination is to think "That person doesn't have much to say, and says it in volume." -John Scalzi
Happiness is a long block list.
If you don't want to be vilified, don't act like a villain.
The Megaverse runs on vibes.
All Palladium Articles
Mutant Dawn for Savage Worlds!
Rogerd
Dungeon Crawler
Posts: 260
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2015 7:29 pm

Re: SDC T-men

Unread post by Rogerd »

I do not recall such, but I am certainly not the guru on PB I once was.

That said, not sure you would convert the tattoos to SDC? That is the trouble, i dislike the mainly MDC games and prefer the SDC stuff - but that is just me I guess.
Curbludgeon
Hero
Posts: 1183
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:08 am
Comment: They/Them

Re: SDC T-men

Unread post by Curbludgeon »

I suspect people are going to disagree on this.

DB15 has a few relevant lines, specifically in the the Hit Points/S.D.C./M.D.C. entry for the True Atlantean R.C.C. on pg 47, and the M.D.C. entries for Tattooed Defender (pg 58), Tattooed Monster Hunter (pg 61), and Atlantean Nomad Paladin (pg 65). Their initial S.D.C. is 50, plus 40 from tattoos 3-6, plus any from physical skills. Their HP start at P.E.+1d6, plus the base M.D.C. value granted by O.C.C., plus 11 or 13 per each tattoo after 6, plus either 1d6 or 10 per additional level depending on class. A.R. is either 12 or 13, which (acknowledging the sample size of two) arguably maps to if the M.D.C. base is 2d4x10 or less, respectively.

These can presumably be extended to Undead Hunters/Voyagers/Sunaj Assassins. While tattoo magic O.C.C.s like T-Men/Maxi-Men/Monster-Men/T-Archers don't include their HP/S.D.C. in M.D.C. tabulation, they would presumably retain them in an S.D.C. environment.
User avatar
drewkitty ~..~
Monk
Posts: 17737
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2000 1:01 am
Location: Eastvale, calif
Contact:

Re: SDC T-men

Unread post by drewkitty ~..~ »

Mark Hall wrote:Have these ever been laid out? I cannot recall if they've been officially published anywhere.

Not that I know of. The only SDC game tattoo magic has been mentioned in is the PF game. This under that the Chang-ku dragons have decided not to propagate their magic tattoos on the world of the PF game.
May you be blessed with the ability to change course when you are off the mark.
Each question should be give the canon answer 1st, then you can proclaim your house rules.
Reading and writing (literacy) is how people on BBS interact.
User avatar
ShadowLogan
Palladin
Posts: 7401
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2006 10:50 am
Location: WI

Re: SDC T-men

Unread post by ShadowLogan »

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
Mark Hall wrote:Have these ever been laid out? I cannot recall if they've been officially published anywhere.

Not that I know of. The only SDC game tattoo magic has been mentioned in is the PF game. This under that the Chang-ku dragons have decided not to propagate their magic tattoos on the world of the PF game.

D&G oddly mentions that even though they respect the Elves and Dwarves decision and will not use them, they also have them as it is stated "While most Chiang-Ku won't use tattoo magic in the Palladium World, all have at least a half dozen on their bodies, including..."-D&G (pg23 right column/top). It might be worth looking for Chiang-ku NPCs in PF to see how they are stated to see if they offer any guidance in terms of SDC versions of Tattoo Magic (not that I think it will help).
Rogerd
Dungeon Crawler
Posts: 260
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2015 7:29 pm

Re: SDC T-men

Unread post by Rogerd »

Mark Hall wrote:Have these ever been laid out? I cannot recall if they've been officially published anywhere.


Just checked my books, they are in Eastern Territory under Danzi Spirit Tattoos, and although inspired they are slightly different.
Curbludgeon
Hero
Posts: 1183
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:08 am
Comment: They/Them

Re: SDC T-men

Unread post by Curbludgeon »

To be clear, my earlier comment was about people potentially disagreeing over the HP/SDC of a T-Man in an SDC setting, due both to Splugorth T-Men SDC not converting 1:1 to MDC, and changes between WB2 and DB15. Secrets of the Atlanteans did what appears to me to be a consistent job when mentioning in each example of a tattoo which involves MDC that it would convert as predicted in an SDC environment. This includes Simple Weapons/Magic Weapons/Powers. Monster Tattoos would convert by default to SDC, which does leave them even more overpriced than before. I'd have to look, but I suspect Monster Shaping Tattoos could get a bit of a boost from beings whom don't convert SDC:MDC at 1:1.
User avatar
Axelmania
Knight
Posts: 5523
Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2015 1:13 pm

Re: SDC T-men

Unread post by Axelmania »

ShadowLogan wrote:It might be worth looking for Chiang-ku NPCs in PF to see how they are stated to see if they offer any guidance in terms of SDC versions of Tattoo Magic (not that I think it will help).


I can't even remember hearing of any actual NPCs in the PF games, the only place I ever remember seeing any are in England/Africa and then never ever again...

Except of course the one NPC from the 1980s which predates the pre-PF introduction of "Chiang-Ku" in Rifts WB3 (England) which is Chaing Six in Villains Unlimited (pg 135)

Huh... that pic of him on Pg 136... I recognize that from Mystic China from that mage OCC who gets Hsien Hsia associated with becoming an Enlightened Immortal (only art guaranteed to give Discorporate: optional for others)

VUp137 mentions "entered his sixth eon of life". AFAIK "eon" informally refers to 1 billion years, so Roku Chiang is over five billion years old?

Earth is only 4.5 billion and has had only 3 eons (Phanerozoic / Proterozoic Eon / Archean ) to give a sense of that enormity...

Ah wait "in suspended animation over six thousand years ago" perhaps author thought eons = millenia?

"actually 6100 years old" means we should substract the time he spent in stasis, I would assume. It's not clear how long that was: we know he ENTERED stasis >6000yrs ago but not when he exited it.

We do know "modern oil riggers" are what ended it... which from what I can tell began in 1858 (although perhaps that could be different in HU's timeline) in which case the time in stasis (if we assume the year in HU is 2008 to be conservative... probably later) would be 6000 minus 150, or 5850 years in stasis.

Subtracting that from 6100 gives us 250 years old, which isn't actually old enough for Chaing Six to be an adult dragon, so he should be a hatchling?

when we compare to D&Gp22 there's an interesting distinction: Roku Chiang has fixed HP and his SDC goes up in Serpent form
Chaing-Ku in PF otoh have fixed SDC with HP that goes up in serpent form.

Ignoring that, he's 400 lbs in serpent form... adults are meant to be 1000lbs in serpent form with hatchlings "20% lighter" which should mean 800 pounds... DOUBLE that of Roku Chiang...

I wonder what's going on with him... maybe the PPE levels of Heroes Unlimited possible being lower than PF causes dragons to become emaciated and underweight? Would make sense to me!

Roku seems to have the same dimensions as an adult: "four feet at the shoulders".

He's 10ft+3ft tail long (13ft total) which falls within the "12 to 20ft" length range of adults, although it falls within the "10% smaller" (10.8 to 18ft) length range of hatchlings too.

This could also explain why Roku has reduced healing capabilities: merely 1d6x5 SDC / 1d6x3 HP per HOUR instead of 1D4x10 per five minutes (ie 12D4x10 per hour) per DG23

Another possibility might be that Roku Chiang isn't a standard breed of Chaing-Ku but some kind of inferior offshoot. It does after all say that his species lifespan is only 1000 years, whereas I think dragons are meant to live up to 6000.

Maybe if it's somehow possible for chaing-ku to breed with humans (if it were possible for any dragon, it should be for a chaing-ku, since they're better at morphing and have this weird connection making tattoos that work best on humans) the result would be some kind of half-breed and Roku Chiang could be such an example?

He is after all, while super-similar to a Chaing-Ku Dragon, actually called a "dragon-like supernatural creature" (137 top left) and "dragon-like supernatural being" (137 mid right) so that implies he's not technically a dragon. Chaing-Ku are pure dragons, so a crossbreed seems like a good explanation for how he could resemble them so much.

Another idea: what would happen to a Demon Dragonmage who used a Chaing-Ku skull? Would you gain the ability to shapeshift into mist and similar? I thought it was just spell knowledge...

This variant also might have uniquely high psionic capabilities: Roku has an amazing 400 ISP even though Chaing-Ku only have 3D4x10, unless that's a typo and they're meant to have 3D4x100 ? PPE goes up by a x10 factor when they reach adulthood so ISP doing similar wouldn't be unbelievable.

DG27 only shows doubled ISP for hatchling>adult fire dragons though, so x10 would be unusual. The weird pard is Chaing-Ku don't have a separate ISP listing for hatchling/adult as other species do.

Roku has no mentioned HF to categorize him. Going by his crazy-high mental attributes it would seem like you could only get those by being an adult, unless the "bonus 2D6 on 3D6" rule applies to "3D6+x" attributes too.

He is mentioned as having a "PPE equivalent" of 1200, which is interesting since this came out in 1992 before HU2 changed the magic system over to that. Must've been a confusing read for HU-only gamers who might not even know what PPE is...

England came out the next year (93) so odds are they were developed concurrently, so the PPE would be written in expectation of a VU/Rifts overlap

1200 PPE is not only too high for a Hatchling (40-100) but even for an adult (400-1000) which seems like you'd need to explain this by:
    1) Roku's special RCC has even more PPE than an adult chaing-ku
    2) Roku boosted his PPE with his tats like Atlanteans
    3) Roku boosted his PPE by his wizard OCC like what should've happened with Rama-Set's necromancer OCC even though it doesn't appear to

Tats are described on 138 to 139 and we'll recognize them as 5 simple animals plus the knight armor power one: he only has SIX so he can still cast spells...

Very interestingly I'm noticing it says he DOESN'T know how to make the tattoos... if this is standard knowledge for chaing-ku dragons this supports the idea he isn't a full/true chaing-ku.

If this is racial knowledge "passed down in the egg" then perhaps being a half-breed prevents the automatic knowledge-transfer?

I guess the parent COULD have taught him to do it anyway (after all, Splugorth, High Lords, Adult Dragons and Atlantean Alchemists can learn to make them) but perhaps opted not to...

OTOH he does know how to make the Elixir... so maybe THAT racial knowledge DID pass down? (maybe the half-breeds have a 50/50 chance of inheriting either magic knowledge?)
    "never share with others" seems to have exceptions, like I'm pretty sure they taught the True Atlanteans to begin with, right? Probably just PF policy of good chaing-ku respecting elf/dwarf prohibitions on magics: I doubt Rama-Set would care, he just wouldn't want to share to keep power for himself

It could also prevent being able to cast spells at 7+ tats (assuming Rama-Set can even do that, I'm not sure...) in which case it would explain why he was only given 6.

Perhaps Rama-Set's dragon parent (looking at you, Rama-Set!) gave him the tats to try and protect him before they lost touch? Probably gave them to the human parent of Rama-set too (all my speculation of course)

I figure Chaing-Ku metamorph could challenge Gods' and gods can reproduce with humans (CB2 and D+G overrode CB's prohibition on that) so chaing-ku being the ONLY dragons capable of it (producing "Demi-Dragons") just feels right, yes?

Roku has a handi-cap in activating tats (doesn't just need to touch the tat: also must spend TWO actions and CHANT) which is inferior to human or chaing-ku, perhaps meaning there's something "sterile" about a half-breed. Even though he might be superior to either species in some respects (like having crazy ISP) he could be inferior to both in ease of using tattoos.
Post Reply

Return to “Guild of Magic & Psionics”