Ash and the Atmosphere

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Ash and the Atmosphere

Unread post by Grell »

How long do you think the volcanic ash that blots out the sun and sky in the early days of the cataclysm would remain before clearing? Subsequently, how do you think the skies would look 10 years down the road (2109 C.E.)?

Any canon examples would be helpful, but thoughts and opinions work just as well!
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Re: Ash and the Atmosphere

Unread post by Akashic Soldier »

It would have lasted longer... but things appeared and flew through the sky eating it. Terrible things... creatures with wings like dragons and mouthes like lampreys and a thousand hungry teeth SWOOPING DOWN AT US!! FROM ALL DIRECTIONS! THEIR SWOLLEN MISSHAPEN BODIES FAT WITH ASH! THEIR BLIND EYES!

THEIR TERRIBLE BLIND EYES!?!!!

THEY KILLED EVERYTHING AND--AND ALL THEY SLEW BECAME AS THE ASH--AND THEY ATE THE ASH AND THEN..!!

Then...

and then...

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Re: Ash and the Atmosphere

Unread post by glitterboy2098 »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volcanic_ash#Dispersal

days for the heavy stuff. the really lightweight stuff would stay up for weeks. but this should be measured from the last day of the eruptions.. during eruptions they'll be ash being thrown into the atmosphere at the same time it's falling elsewhere downwind.

eruptions that generate ashfalls tend to be short and violent.. the lavachamber underneath can only hold so much molten rock, and it's pressure that causes the eruptions. the cataclysm might have triggered a sudden increase in magma entering volcanic chambers, but once the eruptions start the extra pressure is going to vanish really quickly. the eruptions might continue in a less violent 'leaking molten rock' fashion (look at the lava flows of hawaii..), but the violent eruptions that produce ash aren't going to last more than a few days.

i'd imagine that within 2 weeks you'd start getting gaps in the cloudcover, and within 4-5 months the ash would likely have all fallen. after that, the weather would be similar to before the cataclysm, just colder (eruptions of far less power than the cataclysm have produced major cold snaps in the past.. the cataclysm would have triggered a mini-iceage.. which was confirmed before Chaos Earth was every written in WB17:Warlords of Russia, actually.. 80 years of severe ice age like conditions)
Last edited by glitterboy2098 on Sat Jan 26, 2013 3:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ash and the Atmosphere

Unread post by Icefalcon »

No matter how long the ash stayed in the air, it would cause very bad weather shifts.
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Re: Ash and the Atmosphere

Unread post by Lt Gargoyle »

its always possible the effects of the rifts could alter the ash levels in the atmosphere as well.
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Re: Ash and the Atmosphere

Unread post by Icefalcon »

Lt Gargoyle wrote:its always possible the effects of the rifts could alter the ash levels in the atmosphere as well.

True. Some of the rifts could suck the ash in and clear the air that way.
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Re: Ash and the Atmosphere

Unread post by Shawn Merrow »

There is also a supervolcano (Long Valley Caldera) in California that would be adding to the ash plus all the ones in the Cascades. I see eruptions lasting for months, so there would be plenty of ash being put it in the atmosphere.

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Re: Ash and the Atmosphere

Unread post by glitterboy2098 »

supposedly every dormant volcano, and a few believed to be extinct, went up. thus my comment about the cataclysm possibly causing the rate of flow into magma chambers to increase. that's the only explanation i can come up with that would explain how a bunch of dormant volcano's would start erupting before their time.
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Re: Ash and the Atmosphere

Unread post by Icefalcon »

Shawn Merrow wrote:There is also a supervolcano (Long Valley Caldera) in California that would be adding to the ash plus all the ones in the Cascades. I see eruptions lasting for months, so there would be plenty of ash being put it in the atmosphere.

List of volcanoes in the United States

Also a valid point and the reason why my earlier answer included the fact that it would fill the air with ash for months to years (which would cause plants to die off).
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Re: Ash and the Atmosphere

Unread post by glitterboy2098 »

actually, ash clouds of the density to block the sun would only last s a few days. a week tops.

it's the really fine stuff, which does little more than add some great color to the sunsets and make things a bit colder, that stays up in the atmosphere a really long time.

and ash falls only come from violent volcanic eruptions. those flows are powerful, but very short lived.. once the immediate pressure of the magma chamber is released in on, the eruption either stops because there isn't anything to drive or it slows down into a sedate Effusive eruption with little in the way of ash clouds.

the first few days of the cataclysm would see some really nasty volcanic eruptions, but after that the vocanoes would settle down, and within a week or two the dense ash clouds and falls would be over.
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Re: Ash and the Atmosphere

Unread post by keir451 »

IIRC the Pacific Ring of Fire also lit off, so not only would you be getting ash from American volcanoes, you'd be getting ash from Asian/Pacific volcanoes blowing in as well.
So Icefalcon's point about the ash clouds lasting longer could, indeed, apply. Especially if some "new" volcanoes appeared due to Rifting.
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Re: Ash and the Atmosphere

Unread post by glitterboy2098 »

keir451 wrote:IIRC the Pacific Ring of Fire also lit off, so not only would you be getting ash from American volcanoes, you'd be getting ash from Asian/Pacific volcanoes blowing in as well.
So Icefalcon's point about the ash clouds lasting longer could, indeed, apply. Especially if some "new" volcanoes appeared due to Rifting.


the ring of fire going up contributes to the volume of ash being put into the air, but wouldn't appreciably increase length.

thats the point. every volcano went off at the same time.. which means that the eruptions will run out roughly the same time based on magma chamber sizes. bigger volcano's will erupt longer, but once they go up they'll only have a brief time, a few days at most, when they're putting up ash. eruptions that produce ash clouds don't last long. and the kind of ashclouds seen in Chaos earth, that blot out the sun and fall like snow, don't stay in the air for long because ash is much heavier than air.

so within a week or so the eruptions putting out ash are going to be over. within a week or so after that the ash clouds will have fallen to the ground. within a month after that the screwed up weather from the eruptions will have stabilized.

and once the pressure is released, it'll be years before they can erupt again.


and rifting doesn't work that way. volcano's exist because they are places where the surface of the earth has connections to deep deep under ground where there is molten rock. rifts are too small to bring a volcano through, given the size of volcano's on the surface, and even if it could any volcano it brings over isn't going to have a connection to our mantle to keep it going.

nor can a rift deep underground create a magma chamber and create a new volcano.. again due to size (volcano magma chambers are hundreds of miles across), and a lack of connection to the mantle. if a rift did open up and let some lava flow into some void somewhere, it would just create pocket of volcanic rock.

within a month or two at most, the skies would be clear of ash. you'd still have really harsh snow in winter (with winter starting earlier and lasting longer), and really nasty rain storms in spring, summer, and fall.. but not ashfall.
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Re: Ash and the Atmosphere

Unread post by Oberoth »

Pragmatic as always GB. :ok: Earth only has so much lava at only so much pressure. When either are expended, the eruptions will stop. The type of eruptions seen on Rifts earth during the cataclysm are short (relatively speaking) but would expend ludicrous amounts of energy, necessitating a cool-down/re-pressurization cycle between large eruptions. So yea, six months tops for the ash clouds to completely fall and disperse into the atmosphere.
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Re: Ash and the Atmosphere

Unread post by Icefalcon »

Regardless of how long the volcanoes erupt and the ash stay in the air, it will affect the weather for months or years to come. An eruption of that magnitude has not been seen on this earth for millions of years. We have no clue as to what long term effects it would do to the ecosystem. What scientists do know is that enough ash in the air would change weather. We are talking the possibility of creating super storms, lessening of sun reaching plants and other long term effects. Also keep in mind, if the magma chambers are all empty, there is nothing at that geological level to help heat the surface. That means a lowering of surface temperatures. That means it could trigger a small ice age. Just a few things to think about.
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Re: Ash and the Atmosphere

Unread post by Shawn Merrow »

Its not just the ash that is a problem but the variety of aerosol forms released into the stratosphere that can cause cooling for years to come.

Volcanic winter
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Re: Ash and the Atmosphere

Unread post by Nightmask »

Shawn Merrow wrote:Its not just the ash that is a problem but the variety of aerosol forms released into the stratosphere that can cause cooling for years to come.

Volcanic winter


That seems to be the most overlooked part of the event, people see the ash as something that 'well gee it's obviously going to block sunlight but hey once it's gone nothing to worry about' when the finer particles that they can't see scatters sunlight back into space as well and for a lot longer time. Entire civilizations have been wiped out and the political landscape of the planet changed by volcanic events affecting the climate and bringing about starvation due to the creation of years where there was no summer and no growing season as a result.
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Re: Ash and the Atmosphere

Unread post by Icefalcon »

Shawn Merrow wrote:Its not just the ash that is a problem but the variety of aerosol forms released into the stratosphere that can cause cooling for years to come.

Volcanic winter

I didn't even consider the gases that are released into the air during an eruption. You bring up a good point.
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Re: Ash and the Atmosphere

Unread post by SittingBull »

Havent seen anyone talk about the ash and its affect on anything with an air intake, especially DURING the heavest fall period.
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Re: Ash and the Atmosphere

Unread post by Grell »

Engines and intakes would need to be cleaned CONSTANTLY and operation periods would probably be severely limited at best. There's reference in the write up for the Phoenix Sand Skimmer (WB4) to pre-rifts nano machines that would continually clear out and remove sand deposits from intakes, joints and vital components so something like that MIGHT be available to NEMA to allow for aerial operations during the heavy fall period.
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Re: Ash and the Atmosphere

Unread post by SittingBull »

Grell wrote:Engines and intakes would need to be cleaned CONSTANTLY and operation periods would probably be severely limited at best. There's reference in the write up for the Phoenix Sand Skimmer (WB4) to pre-rifts nano machines that would continually clear out and remove sand deposits from intakes, joints and vital components so something like that MIGHT be available to NEMA to allow for aerial operations during the heavy fall period.



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Re: Ash and the Atmosphere

Unread post by Grell »

I know, right? o.O
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Re: Ash and the Atmosphere

Unread post by SittingBull »

My whole thing is the worst rescues needed would be during the heaviest ash fall, I think. So you would have units out in the horrible ash blizzards, trying to rescue people, trying to fight back monsters, trying to keep their equipment/lungs working in the ash.
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Re: Ash and the Atmosphere

Unread post by Grell »

And NEMA definitely steps up to that challenge. Makes for very exciting missions, I think.
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Re: Ash and the Atmosphere

Unread post by SittingBull »

Grell wrote:And NEMA definitely steps up to that challenge. Makes for very exciting missions, I think.



Wow, indeed it would. I imagine lots of close range combat also with shadows looming out of the ash.
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Re: Ash and the Atmosphere

Unread post by Shawn Merrow »

If yo have the H2 channel they have a series called Mega Disasters that has an episode on Yellowstone erupting that many of you would find interesting.
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Re: Ash and the Atmosphere

Unread post by Grell »

I actually do and will check it out. Thanks.
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