Superheroes on Chaos EArth?

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Cobalt-Blue
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Superheroes on Chaos EArth?

Unread post by Cobalt-Blue »

I was wondering if there were superheros on Chaos Earth prior to the opening of the Rifts?
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Re: Superheroes on Chaos EArth?

Unread post by Ectoplasmic Bidet »

None have ever been written or mentioned in the books. Limited psionics were present, along with other human augmentation; juicers, cyborgs, M.O.M. enhancement, etc., so there could have been a vigilante running around dispensing justice.
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Re: Superheroes on Chaos EArth?

Unread post by Kovoston »

The possibility exsits due to the incredible technology - but that's up to the GM... I'm suprised there were not that many android and robotic/Bionic people....
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Re: Superheroes on Chaos EArth?

Unread post by Cobalt-Blue »

I'm putting together an idea for a Chaos Earth campaign based around a group of Government Superheroes dealing with a couple of incursions.
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Re: Superheroes on Chaos EArth?

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Kovoston wrote:The possibility exsits due to the incredible technology - but that's up to the GM... I'm suprised there were not that many android and robotic/Bionic people....


Too many copies of Frankenstein around.
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It's 'canon', not 'cannon'. A cannon is a big gun like on pirate ships, canon is what you mean when referring to something as being contained within one of the books such as how many dice to roll for a stat.
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Re: Superheroes on Chaos EArth?

Unread post by Tinker Dragoon »

Cobalt-Blue wrote:I was wondering if there were superheros on Chaos Earth prior to the opening of the Rifts?


Strictly speaking, no. Prior to the Coming of the Rifts, the world of Chaos Earth was basically the same world we live in today, where the paranormal only exists in the imagination. It is indicated in various Rifts books that superhuman and supernatural beings did exist in the ancient past (like back when the Atlanteans lived on Earth) and were the basis for various myths and legends, but any self-styled magicians, psychics, and übermenschen who exist during the low P.P.E. era prior to December 22, 2098 are virtually devoid of powers, and are dismissed as madmen and con artists.

Only "real" superhumans would exist, including cyborgs, robots, super soldiers (Juicer, M.O.M., and endoskeletal augmentations), and the genetically enhanced (more likely Eugenics than Experiments or Mutants), although it is indicated that for the most part these technologies were not fully developed (at least not in North America). Any of the various "non-powered" superhero power categories (Hardware, Special Training, etc.) would be plausible as well, although the more "mystical" abilities of Physical Training and Ancient Master characters would fall under the category of New Age hokum, as above.

After the Coming of the Rifts, none of these restrictions would apply. Latent Mutants, Demigods, Star Children, and other characters with the potential for psionics, magic, or super abilities would suddenly discover that they are more than mortal, although they may not immediately know the full extent of their abilities, nor be able to control them.
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Re: Superheroes on Chaos EArth?

Unread post by Cobalt-Blue »

Tinker Dragoon wrote:
Cobalt-Blue wrote:I was wondering if there were superheros on Chaos Earth prior to the opening of the Rifts?


Strictly speaking, no. Prior to the Coming of the Rifts, the world of Chaos Earth was basically the same world we live in today, where the paranormal only exists in the imagination. It is indicated in various Rifts books that superhuman and supernatural beings did exist in the ancient past (like back when the Atlanteans lived on Earth) and were the basis for various myths and legends, but any self-styled magicians, psychics, and übermenschen who exist during the low P.P.E. era prior to December 22, 2098 are virtually devoid of powers, and are dismissed as madmen and con artists.

Only "real" superhumans would exist, including cyborgs, robots, super soldiers (Juicer, M.O.M., and endoskeletal augmentations), and the genetically enhanced (more likely Eugenics than Experiments or Mutants), although it is indicated that for the most part these technologies were not fully developed (at least not in North America). Any of the various "non-powered" superhero power categories (Hardware, Special Training, etc.) would be plausible as well, although the more "mystical" abilities of Physical Training and Ancient Master characters would fall under the category of New Age hokum, as above.

After the Coming of the Rifts, none of these restrictions would apply. Latent Mutants, Demigods, Star Children, and other characters with the potential for psionics, magic, or super abilities would suddenly discover that they are more than mortal, although they may not immediately know the full extent of their abilities, nor be able to control them.

Hmmm, that might offer other possibilities; NEMA soldiers who are suddenly changed by the energies of the rifts to have superpowers. How would the command react to that?
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Re: Superheroes on Chaos EArth?

Unread post by Ectoplasmic Bidet »

Cobalt-Blue wrote:
Tinker Dragoon wrote:
Cobalt-Blue wrote:I was wondering if there were superheros on Chaos Earth prior to the opening of the Rifts?


Strictly speaking, no. Prior to the Coming of the Rifts, the world of Chaos Earth was basically the same world we live in today, where the paranormal only exists in the imagination. It is indicated in various Rifts books that superhuman and supernatural beings did exist in the ancient past (like back when the Atlanteans lived on Earth) and were the basis for various myths and legends, but any self-styled magicians, psychics, and übermenschen who exist during the low P.P.E. era prior to December 22, 2098 are virtually devoid of powers, and are dismissed as madmen and con artists.

Only "real" superhumans would exist, including cyborgs, robots, super soldiers (Juicer, M.O.M., and endoskeletal augmentations), and the genetically enhanced (more likely Eugenics than Experiments or Mutants), although it is indicated that for the most part these technologies were not fully developed (at least not in North America). Any of the various "non-powered" superhero power categories (Hardware, Special Training, etc.) would be plausible as well, although the more "mystical" abilities of Physical Training and Ancient Master characters would fall under the category of New Age hokum, as above.

After the Coming of the Rifts, none of these restrictions would apply. Latent Mutants, Demigods, Star Children, and other characters with the potential for psionics, magic, or super abilities would suddenly discover that they are more than mortal, although they may not immediately know the full extent of their abilities, nor be able to control them.

Hmmm, that might offer other possibilities; NEMA soldiers who are suddenly changed by the energies of the rifts to have superpowers. How would the command react to that?


Make them Sea Titans, as per page 113 of WB7: Underseas. Just call them something different.

Supernatural attributes, MDC, powerful bio-regeneration, etc., all caused by exposure to the energies of a dimensional rift, one supposedly the product of Lemurian experimentation. The little Lemurian blurb was written long ago and doesn't really fit too terribly well with them as written in their new WB.
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Re: Superheroes on Chaos EArth?

Unread post by Tinker Dragoon »

Cobalt-Blue wrote:Hmmm, that might offer other possibilities; NEMA soldiers who are suddenly changed by the energies of the rifts to have superpowers. How would the command react to that?


It should spark some interest, to say the least. The excerpts from Lt. Gen. Sawyer's journal in Rise of Magic indicate that she hides her own latent psionic powers out of fear of becoming a science experiment or losing the respect of her troops. The discovery that some NEMA soldiers can fly, shoot energy beams, transform themselves into living electricity, or deflect artillery fire off of their bare skin would almost certainly warrant investigation and evaluation of the soldiers' motives and abilities. At the same time, such powers would also make these characters invaluable resources to throw at demons and other monsters. Super-powered civilians would most likely find themselves pressed into service as well, or else be classified as demons and hunted down.
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Re: Superheroes on Chaos EArth?

Unread post by zaccheus »

Tinker Dragoon wrote:
Cobalt-Blue wrote:I was wondering if there were superheros on Chaos Earth prior to the opening of the Rifts?


Strictly speaking, no. Prior to the Coming of the Rifts, the world of Chaos Earth was basically the same world we live in today, where the paranormal only exists in the imagination. It is indicated in various Rifts books that superhuman and supernatural beings did exist in the ancient past (like back when the Atlanteans lived on Earth) and were the basis for various myths and legends, but any self-styled magicians, psychics, and übermenschen who exist during the low P.P.E. era prior to December 22, 2098 are virtually devoid of powers, and are dismissed as madmen and con artists.

Only "real" superhumans would exist, including cyborgs, robots, super soldiers (Juicer, M.O.M., and endoskeletal augmentations), and the genetically enhanced (more likely Eugenics than Experiments or Mutants), although it is indicated that for the most part these technologies were not fully developed (at least not in North America). Any of the various "non-powered" superhero power categories (Hardware, Special Training, etc.) would be plausible as well, although the more "mystical" abilities of Physical Training and Ancient Master characters would fall under the category of New Age hokum, as above.

After the Coming of the Rifts, none of these restrictions would apply. Latent Mutants, Demigods, Star Children, and other characters with the potential for psionics, magic, or super abilities would suddenly discover that they are more than mortal, although they may not immediately know the full extent of their abilities, nor be able to control them.

Actually you are mistaken. Unless its been retconned. There is a dragon, I'm pretty sure Chang ku, who survived the cateclysm (in fact was on earth even before the golden age) and meets up with Erin tarn and victor lazlo. If memory serves (I'm at work on my phone so can't check my books) he first appearance is in rifts England but is also in triax and I believe Africa world books. Soagic and supernatural beings did exist during the time of chaos earth, so it's possible super heroes may as well.
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Re: Superheroes on Chaos EArth?

Unread post by Ectoplasmic Bidet »

Going with the theory/assumption/whatever that BtS was a prelude to Chaos Earth and Rifts Earth, wouldn't it have been an interesting time to be a supernatural creature? Imagine, you're still stuck as a SDC being with greatly reduced or even totally nullified mystic powers, generally much tougher and stronger than the average human, but even the most minor of MD weapons and body armor, if you were unlucky enough to encounter someone that well equipped prior to the Cataclysm, would have effectively neutered you.

If I were a dragon or other long-lived supernatural being/creature of magic stranded on Earth during the late 21st century, I would have been on my very best behavior, well away from anyone who could detect my nature and with the inclination to do something about it.

Superheroes, who in the 20th century shared rough parity with the arms and armor of the time, would have likely shared similar concerns as MDC construction and weaponry came onto the scene.
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Re: Superheroes on Chaos EArth?

Unread post by Tinker Dragoon »

zaccheus wrote:Actually you are mistaken. Unless its been retconned. There is a dragon, I'm pretty sure Chang ku, who survived the cateclysm (in fact was on earth even before the golden age) and meets up with Erin tarn and victor lazlo. If memory serves (I'm at work on my phone so can't check my books) he first appearance is in rifts England but is also in triax and I believe Africa world books. Soagic and supernatural beings did exist during the time of chaos earth, so it's possible super heroes may as well.


That was back in the old days when Rifts and Beyond the Supernatural were considered a contiguous universe. There's a whole other topic about that.

Chaos Earth indicates that the Golden Age was strictly an age of scientific wonders, so if there were any supernatural entities, they were presumably either dormant or in hiding. Likewise, the various transhuman advances described are largely in the realm of artificial augmentation. Experiments and Mutants would certainly be plausible in this setting, though some of the more fantastic powers (e.g. Alter Physical Structure, Energy Expulsion, propulsionless flight powers) would be unlikely, although some of these might be explained by nanotechnology, antigravity, and other science fiction themes.

On the other hand, given the existence of Cyberworks and KLS in Rifts, one could easily run HU and CE as a single world, in which case the rules of Real Life need not apply. In such a setting, SCRET would undoubtedly play a much larger role in combating the supernatural hordes than NEMA, or perhaps they might even be merged into a single agency. The coming of the rifts would undoubtedly garner attention from alien civilizations beyond Earth, some of whom might be inclined to help humanity, whilst others seek to quarantine the solar system, lest the dimensional incursion spill over to the galaxy at large.

It's a setting with possibilities, to say the least.
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Re: Superheroes on Chaos EArth?

Unread post by zaccheus »

Tinker Dragoon wrote:
zaccheus wrote:Actually you are mistaken. Unless its been retconned. There is a dragon, I'm pretty sure Chang ku, who survived the cateclysm (in fact was on earth even before the golden age) and meets up with Erin tarn and victor lazlo. If memory serves (I'm at work on my phone so can't check my books) he first appearance is in rifts England but is also in triax and I believe Africa world books. Soagic and supernatural beings did exist during the time of chaos earth, so it's possible super heroes may as well.


That was back in the old days when Rifts and Beyond the Supernatural were considered a contiguous universe. There's a whole other topic about that.

Chaos Earth indicates that the Golden Age was strictly an age of scientific wonders, so if there were any supernatural entities, they were presumably either dormant or in hiding. Likewise, the various transhuman advances described are largely in the realm of artificial augmentation. Experiments and Mutants would certainly be plausible in this setting, though some of the more fantastic powers (e.g. Alter Physical Structure, Energy Expulsion, propulsionless flight powers) would be unlikely, although some of these might be explained by nanotechnology, antigravity, and other science fiction themes.


Kind of. I know BTS was pseudo divorced from rifts. However the dragon is still canon as of triax 2 if memory serves. And regardless, Erin tarn highly repects the works of victor Lazlo. A man that two major cities take their name from. A man whose claim to fame was searching out those supernatural things that were hiding. So, they are rare but id say the supernatural is still cannon in the golden age just uncommon
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Re: Superheroes on Chaos EArth?

Unread post by Snake Eyes »

This is an interesting topic......i have never ran/played Chaos Earth, so this has me interested in maybe starting a game up.

Now, my question is, since it is the Golden Age of technology, would it be possible to include human experiments such as from HU, and by extension the Super Soldier from PU2 (minus the super abilities), how about Eugenics.
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Re: Superheroes on Chaos EArth?

Unread post by zaccheus »

Snake Eyes wrote:This is an interesting topic......i have never ran/played Chaos Earth, so this has me interested in maybe starting a game up.

Now, my question is, since it is the Golden Age of technology, would it be possible to include human experiments such as from HU, and by extension the Super Soldier from PU2 (minus the super abilities), how about Eugenics.


I would say all that is likely If not pretty much guaranteed. I'm not familiar with HU and it's material, but look at mindwerks, they were doing MOM experiments including playing with psionic boosting technology precataclysm along with psytronics in south America. Also if I remember correctly lonestar was doing genetic experiments on people pre rifts as well. The Golden Age seems like a much darker time than in human "history" than the name would imply
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Re: Superheroes on Chaos EArth?

Unread post by Tinker Dragoon »

zaccheus wrote:Kind of. I know BTS was pseudo divorced from rifts. However the dragon is still canon as of triax 2 if memory serves. And regardless, Erin tarn highly repects the works of victor Lazlo. A man that two major cities take their name from. A man whose claim to fame was searching out those supernatural things that were hiding. So, they are rare but id say the supernatural is still cannon in the golden age just uncommon


There was a Victor Lazlo in Rifts/Chaos earth's past, but he was clearly not the Victor Lazlo.

The relevant information can be found on page 12 of Chaos Earth. To summarize, Chaos Earth's P.P.E. level prior to 2098 was much lower than that of BTS Earth; so low as to be nearly nonexistent, and imperceptible even to creatures sensitive to such things, except in extremely magical places like Stonehenge, and even then, only a trickle of P.P.E. could be detected and used. This is completely different from BTS, where magic and the supernatural are largely hidden from the world at large, but are otherwise as powerful as in Heroes Unlimited, Nightbane, and Palladium Fantasy.

Snake Eyes wrote:This is an interesting topic......i have never ran/played Chaos Earth, so this has me interested in maybe starting a game up.

Now, my question is, since it is the Golden Age of technology, would it be possible to include human experiments such as from HU, and by extension the Super Soldier from PU2 (minus the super abilities), how about Eugenics.


It is fairly well established in Rifts that the technology of Juicer and Crazy conversions existed in this time, so I would see no reason not to have other types of Super-Soldiers, probably with each type being used by particular nations or corporations. Likewise, cybernetics, bionics, and robotics are well established technologies of the Golden Age.

Chaos Earth characters have a small amount of genetic modification from the get-go, but large-scale genetic engineering does not seem to have been widespread. Nevertheless, there would undoubtedly have been some secret genetic projects at the future Lone Star complex and at similar facilities in other countries.
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Re: Superheroes on Chaos EArth?

Unread post by Snake Eyes »

Thanks guys for pointing that out..... :-D
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Re: Superheroes on Chaos EArth?

Unread post by zaccheus »

Tinker Dragoon wrote:There was a Victor Lazlo in Rifts/Chaos earth's past, but he was clearly not the Victor Lazlo.

The relevant information can be found on page 12 of Chaos Earth. To summarize, Chaos Earth's P.P.E. level prior to 2098 was much lower than that of BTS Earth; so low as to be nearly nonexistent, and imperceptible even to creatures sensitive to such things, except in extremely magical places like Stonehenge, and even then, only a trickle of P.P.E. could be detected and used. This is completely different from BTS, where magic and the supernatural are largely hidden from the world at large, but are otherwise as powerful as in Heroes Unlimited, Nightbane, and Palladium Fantasy.


I see what you're saying and I understand your meaning, and it very well might be true that THE victor Lazlo in BTS is legitimate but the one on Rifts earth is just a nut job chasing shadows. I find that hard to believe though since it was his writings (with the same titles as the ones in BTS) about ley lines and what not that got a city built wih his name. I find it hard to believe he was basicly just an Alex jones style nut that was just a really good guesser and not someone who legitimately understood the supernatural and studied it (even when it was comparatively much weaker) on rifts earth prior to the cataclysm. I feel it would make more sense to say Victor Lazlo of BTS is essentially identical to his rifts counter part and even that rifts earth and BTS earth are identical in terms of amount of magic present pre cataclysm and would say concede that up to and through the golden age that magic continued to wane and sure was at a very low point, but even as you admit it is detectable at Stonehenge therefore it does exist (unlike what you originally said "only in our imagination) so it would be plausible but unlikely to encounter supernatural beings in the cities of the goldenage and those beings could be superheroes of a sort. Again it's not likely, but the potential exists
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Re: Superheroes on Chaos EArth?

Unread post by Tinker Dragoon »

For some additional information and considerations on artificially created superbeings of Chaos Earth, check out the two Rifts South America books, which include a variety of genetically engineered mutants whose origins predate the coming of the rifts.
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Re: Superheroes on Chaos EArth?

Unread post by Looonatic »

Rifts would be happening all over the place. I read that the Cataclysm had a ripple effect that caused events on a number of other worlds. With that many rifts happening and that many worlds affected, the chances of a handful of superhumans popping through from another world are pretty high.
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Re: Superheroes on Chaos Earth?

Unread post by MikelAmroni »

The tricky thing about Victor Lazlo is the very idea of multiple universes inherent in the Megaverse concept. It is definitely A Victor Lazlo that fought in Africa and now in Munich, but is it "the" Victor Lazlo? We don't have a sure fire way of knowing. Kevin has both confirmed and denied it. in the end, each GM has to make that call. I say it is, but that's me.

As for Superheros, if you want to run that kind of game, then heck yes. You don't have to "build" robot heroes, since there ARE Robot heroes in the setting already. Same with bionics, magic and psionics. All you need are the occasional super soldier (Juicer and MOM Conversion are simply supersoldier techniques which have easily reproducible effects and are not experimental any more), mutants (not only possible, but intrinsically included ala Tritonia, South America, Psi-Stalkers, and Dogboys), and the occasional mega-hero (hero from the rifts, or some poor sap supercharged by God knows what in order to fight the demons invading earth). Heck even Aliens are easy, and not limited to the aliens from AU either. You can include D-Bees and more. I mean what is a dwarven Knight packed to the gils with magic items and his trusty holy weapon, except an alien magic imbued hero with a medieval skill set.
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Re: Superheroes on Chaos EArth?

Unread post by Lt Gargoyle »

I'd say go for it if you want them. you could use BTS as part of the pre build up before the return of the fully powered ley lines and the magic rips across the planet restoring the natural order of life.

There are the super hero types like Batman and Iron Man who could be running around trying to right the wrong. Its your game go for it.
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Re: Superheroes on Chaos EArth?

Unread post by Tor »

Tinker Dragoon wrote:Strictly speaking, no. Prior to the Coming of the Rifts, the world of Chaos Earth was basically the same world we live in today, where the paranormal only exists in the imagination.
I'm not sure where you're getting that from. It contradicts book materials. The supernatural was not a major part of the Golden Age, but it still hid in the shadows.

Tinker Dragoon wrote:It is indicated in various Rifts books that superhuman and supernatural beings did exist in the ancient past (like back when the Atlanteans lived on Earth) and were the basis for various myths and legends, but any self-styled magicians, psychics, and übermenschen who exist during the low P.P.E. era prior to December 22, 2098 are virtually devoid of powers, and are dismissed as madmen and con artists.
You mean except for the dragons and immortals who still hid among humans and survived the cataclysm?
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