nation building

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Nation building, good idea and why?

good idea
19
59%
bad idea
5
16%
ok idea
8
25%
 
Total votes: 32

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tmikesecrist3
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nation building

Unread post by tmikesecrist3 »

I just wonted to get some feed back on this. Should nation building be as aspect of a CE campaign, especially if it is not set in Chicago. If so I think it would grow out of the need for some one to fill the power vacuum not necessarily and evil some one but from the need to orgise people and supply's also keep in mind this would not be as hard as some think as Many people or sheeple would fallow any one whom seems to now what there doing, I now at first it would be done by many in the hopes that after the crises normalized. that the could transition back to normal civil atthraty. At what point would these Fledgling kings and lords give up on the old order as lost? what challenges would these Fledgling kingdoms face? what form of Government would these nations take.. Tribel Fuedel? republics? and what are the chances that any of these would last throw the dark ages in some form?
"Cannon to right of them,
Cannon to left of them,
Cannon in front of them
Volleyed and thundered;
Stormed at with shot and shell,
Boldly they rode and well,
Into the jaws of Death,
Into the mouth of hell
Rode the six hundred."
The charge of the light Brigade, By Alfred, Lord Tennyson
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Re: nation building

Unread post by keir451 »

I think nation building is a good idea, as for what type of nation it might be... I might say Fuedal, or at least Militaristic as the person starting thte civilization would most likely be the one with the most firepower, charisma, etc.
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Re: nation building

Unread post by RoadWarriorFWaNK »

Chaos Earth isn't really set up for nation building. The "fluff" text describes rescue and protection of survivors as being the main focus of the setting. The mechanics are set up mostly just for combat, like most Palladium games.

Personally, i like to play games as they are written. If I wanted to do nation building I would play a game designed with that in mind.
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Re: nation building

Unread post by Grell »

RoadWarriorFWaNK wrote:Chaos Earth isn't really set up for nation building. The "fluff" text describes rescue and protection of survivors as being the main focus of the setting. The mechanics are set up mostly just for combat, like most Palladium games.

Personally, i like to play games as they are written. If I wanted to do nation building I would play a game designed with that in mind.


My thoughts as well.
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Re: nation building

Unread post by tmikesecrist3 »

just the thoughts I do like the idea of "my actions matter". If that throws in some elements of nation building or tribe building. so be it. Human beings would have to band to gether in some way if the hope to have an chance. And if you read the books NEMA is doing that. even if that's not what there setting out to do. I know when it came up in games that I have played it was not something we set out to do but rather was a side effect of things that we where doing. The group started trying to protect the town or parts of it any way. and before we know it we had people looking to us for guidance. even Justis or to mediated desuits as well as protect them. I don't thin any one I know would run in the Chicago area. and I don't think I would ether.
"Cannon to right of them,
Cannon to left of them,
Cannon in front of them
Volleyed and thundered;
Stormed at with shot and shell,
Boldly they rode and well,
Into the jaws of Death,
Into the mouth of hell
Rode the six hundred."
The charge of the light Brigade, By Alfred, Lord Tennyson
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Re: nation building

Unread post by Shawn Merrow »

I'm sure in the years following the coming of the Rifts there were many attempts to form governments, most ended in failure leaving nothing behind to remember them by.
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Re: nation building

Unread post by tmikesecrist3 »

I am sure a lot would fail, in fact the tribal government, Would have key advantages especially of the tribe is set up so that as a nomadic or semi-nomadic. As they could pack up and leave of there are to many monsters. in the early days I think groups of pagans or neo-pagans would have some advantages as well. as there is a chance that the group could start with some trained mages or psis.. but there are a lot of factors I don't see full kingdoms being posable for some time. it would be on the scail of a small village or parts of the ruins of a city
"Cannon to right of them,
Cannon to left of them,
Cannon in front of them
Volleyed and thundered;
Stormed at with shot and shell,
Boldly they rode and well,
Into the jaws of Death,
Into the mouth of hell
Rode the six hundred."
The charge of the light Brigade, By Alfred, Lord Tennyson
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Re: nation building

Unread post by Grell »

I like using nomadic cannibal tribes from what used to be rich neighborhoods. But then again, that's just my twisted side coming out to play.

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Re: nation building

Unread post by tmikesecrist3 »

Grell wrote:I like using nomadic cannibal tribes from what used to be rich neighborhoods. But then again, that's just my twisted side coming out to play.

"In Soviet Russia, the rich eat YOU!"


:?
:eek: your right you are twisted lol but hay we have to be a little twisted to play or run this game don't we lol
"Cannon to right of them,
Cannon to left of them,
Cannon in front of them
Volleyed and thundered;
Stormed at with shot and shell,
Boldly they rode and well,
Into the jaws of Death,
Into the mouth of hell
Rode the six hundred."
The charge of the light Brigade, By Alfred, Lord Tennyson
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Re: nation building

Unread post by Grell »

It helps!
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"The question is not why the mechanoids kill the humanoids, but only why nobody did it sooner." -Killer Cyborg
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Re: nation building

Unread post by tmikesecrist3 »

What I was thinking,,, The leaders of the area's protectors grew into there fiedel lords. some of the fall or some of them will allie with others. That's how kingdoms or formed by lords swearing fealty to a stronger lord.. it also works with dukedoms and princedoms. as well as baronies
"Cannon to right of them,
Cannon to left of them,
Cannon in front of them
Volleyed and thundered;
Stormed at with shot and shell,
Boldly they rode and well,
Into the jaws of Death,
Into the mouth of hell
Rode the six hundred."
The charge of the light Brigade, By Alfred, Lord Tennyson
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Re: nation building

Unread post by tmikesecrist3 »

if I recall the federation of magic was a collection of magic using kingdoms. princedoms. dukedoms that banded together.. when did these places start. I know many are lost to history. though I really don't see a kingdom founded by a druid... joining the federation of magic... at least not quickly and in watching I think the druid kings would see the warning signs.... and not every kingdom would be built on conquest they would just want to grow large enough to protect its self but not want to be large enough to tempting to others for conquest
"Cannon to right of them,
Cannon to left of them,
Cannon in front of them
Volleyed and thundered;
Stormed at with shot and shell,
Boldly they rode and well,
Into the jaws of Death,
Into the mouth of hell
Rode the six hundred."
The charge of the light Brigade, By Alfred, Lord Tennyson
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tmikesecrist3
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Re: nation building

Unread post by tmikesecrist3 »

one thing I am thinking about is maybe doing a gen. campaign.. I am lucky in that my core group has 3 people in it, all 3 of are good gms. Starting in CE.. and going as long as it does. it may not last the first gen. but each of us could take turns gming it. one running for a gen... that one reason why I am asking the type of questions I am... Also I see no reasion why mages can not exist before the GC granted there would not be many. They may be part of the pagan movement but they may not also... do I think that every pagan would be a mage or a psi? of course not.... A trained and disaplind mage would have some advantages to the instinctive mages that you have in the days fallowing the GC. same with any trained and exprinsed psis.... and it is not like those trained mages would have a hard time finding people to teach
"Cannon to right of them,
Cannon to left of them,
Cannon in front of them
Volleyed and thundered;
Stormed at with shot and shell,
Boldly they rode and well,
Into the jaws of Death,
Into the mouth of hell
Rode the six hundred."
The charge of the light Brigade, By Alfred, Lord Tennyson
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Re: nation building

Unread post by tmikesecrist3 »

of thats true... infact last time I played CE I played a bts-1 mage and just seeing some of what seemed to happen has me thinking. of course that does not mean that the players would take the ball and run with it :P
Last edited by tmikesecrist3 on Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Cannon to right of them,
Cannon to left of them,
Cannon in front of them
Volleyed and thundered;
Stormed at with shot and shell,
Boldly they rode and well,
Into the jaws of Death,
Into the mouth of hell
Rode the six hundred."
The charge of the light Brigade, By Alfred, Lord Tennyson
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Re: nation building

Unread post by tmikesecrist3 »

yeah I know and that would be helpful if my ex-wife did not still have my copy of that book..... but that's nether here nor there... I was thinking about maybe using a nightbane mage... or magic users form pf but those would need more moding
"Cannon to right of them,
Cannon to left of them,
Cannon in front of them
Volleyed and thundered;
Stormed at with shot and shell,
Boldly they rode and well,
Into the jaws of Death,
Into the mouth of hell
Rode the six hundred."
The charge of the light Brigade, By Alfred, Lord Tennyson
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Re: nation building

Unread post by keir451 »

tmikesecrist3 wrote:I just wonted to get some feed back on this. Should nation building be as aspect of a CE campaign, especially if it is not set in Chicago. If so I think it would grow out of the need for some one to fill the power vacuum not necessarily and evil some one but from the need to orgise people and supply's also keep in mind this would not be as hard as some think as Many people or sheeple would fallow any one whom seems to now what there doing, I now at first it would be done by many in the hopes that after the crises normalized. that the could transition back to normal civil atthraty. At what point would these Fledgling kings and lords give up on the old order as lost? what challenges would these Fledgling kingdoms face? what form of Government would these nations take.. Tribel Fuedel? republics? and what are the chances that any of these would last throw the dark ages in some form?

Oh, HELL YES!!!! I think for certain that any NEMA remnants and other survivors would be trying to build a "home base" somewhere, I think it would probably be Miltaristic and eventually expansionistic (gee, sounds like the CS!).
Challenges would be disease, lack of food & water (depending), marauding monsters, rogue miltary units or high tech bandits, etc.
A system like this could last through the Dark Ages if they could find a secure enough place to build from, who ever was base commander or the de facto "leader" might establish either a elected system of gov't at first but later on it might switch to a hereditary position or even a dictatorship. After about two or three generations (maybe not even that long) I think they'd give up on the "Old system" and just go with what they've got, maybe creating a semi fuedal system akin to the Brotherhood of Steel from Fallout.
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Re: nation building

Unread post by glitterboy2098 »

Psionycx wrote:
tmikesecrist3 wrote:one thing I am thinking about is maybe doing a gen. campaign.. I am lucky in that my core group has 3 people in it, all 3 of are good gms. Starting in CE.. and going as long as it does. it may not last the first gen. but each of us could take turns gming it. one running for a gen... that one reason why I am asking the type of questions I am... Also I see no reasion why mages can not exist before the GC granted there would not be many. They may be part of the pagan movement but they may not also... do I think that every pagan would be a mage or a psi? of course not.... A trained and disaplind mage would have some advantages to the instinctive mages that you have in the days fallowing the GC. same with any trained and exprinsed psis.... and it is not like those trained mages would have a hard time finding people to teach


The largest single group of functional psychics would probably be the Lazlo Agency, whom I personally suspect became the founders of Psyscape. Their pedigree as a psychic groups goes all the way back to the 20th century, and individuals may have longer histories..

the Court of Tarot rivals the Lazlo Agency in size and capability.. so you have a choice of origins there. perhaps you end up with a mix of both being involved, setting up for some rather cut-throat internal politics early on..
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Re: nation building

Unread post by Lt Gargoyle »

I let Players build thier own kingdom if they want to. In chaos earth in the begining i see this being considerably harder. Since they have to bring about peace and protection of those in it. Find a way to produce goods and supplies for thier people and themselves.
In a world ripped apart and in such a horrible state not to mention being attacked by supernatual things the above is near imposible for players to do. but after a decade or so i can see it happening.
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Re: nation building

Unread post by EmeraldToucanet »

I see nation building (or at least planting the seeds for it anyhow, since for the most part I see just small towns being what spring up for quite some time) as something that would happen in a Chaos Earth game out of simple necessity. People would come together to pool resources, and protect each other and their interests. Many groups would be more akin to gangs, but some could overtime grow, and establish themselves as something more. Other groups would be made up of NEMA and the civilians that they are trying to protect, and they would likely be trying to find a decently defensible area, and once they do establish what could grow into a town of sorts.
In fact the game I currently play in we've ended up with a town (mostly a tent city) of sorts forming around NEMA's base of operation. It could very well grow and grow if it continues to be successfully defended. Well that and if we can manage to keep enough resources around to stop things from falling apart more due to starvation (which is one of my group's primary concerns right now, hunger may prove to be a worse foe than the demons).
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Re: nation building

Unread post by Jason Richards »

Petty lords, protectorates, tribes, and even small democracies are all inevitable. As NEMA eventually fails in its attempt to hold back the tide, groups and factions will obviously form their own little societies. Ultimately, little survives. There are generations of nothingness before most of the Rifts-era kingdoms and states get a foothold.

I talk about this a lot, but I think it bears repeating: it's my opinion that you really shouldn't spend any effort on connecting dots between Chaos Earth and Rifts. NEMA does not become the CS, for example. Little pockets of humanity survive and maybe even prosper in North America during the hundred years after the Cataclysm, but by and large all human civilization is destroyed. People don't remember the names of states or nations for the most part. Even the most important force of good during the Coming of the Rifts, NEMA, is totally forgotten by all but a handful.

Chaos Earth is about survival, and the grim valor of fighting for a lost cause. Survival can mean banding people together under the rule of some tyrant or a self-made king or even a learned teacher, but true government and society tend to get short-circuited when at any given time an invincible monster may actually materialize in your midst while you're sleeping, or wander through your camp and not even recognize you as being anything but food. And that discounts your fellow humans experimenting with powers they can't control, or even selling you out to a demon lord so they can live on as pets and servants of dark powers.
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Re: nation building

Unread post by Lt Gargoyle »

Jason Richards wrote:Petty lords, protectorates, tribes, and even small democracies are all inevitable. As NEMA eventually fails in its attempt to hold back the tide, groups and factions will obviously form their own little societies. Ultimately, little survives. There are generations of nothingness before most of the Rifts-era kingdoms and states get a foothold.

I talk about this a lot, but I think it bears repeating: it's my opinion that you really shouldn't spend any effort on connecting dots between Chaos Earth and Rifts. NEMA does not become the CS, for example. Little pockets of humanity survive and maybe even prosper in North America during the hundred years after the Cataclysm, but by and large all human civilization is destroyed. People don't remember the names of states or nations for the most part. Even the most important force of good during the Coming of the Rifts, NEMA, is totally forgotten by all but a handful.

Chaos Earth is about survival, and the grim valor of fighting for a lost cause. Survival can mean banding people together under the rule of some tyrant or a self-made king or even a learned teacher, but true government and society tend to get short-circuited when at any given time an invincible monster may actually materialize in your midst while you're sleeping, or wander through your camp and not even recognize you as being anything but food. And that discounts your fellow humans experimenting with powers they can't control, or even selling you out to a demon lord so they can live on as pets and servants of dark powers.



I fully agree here with you. However i think it is in the nature of humans to try and build a community even in the worst of times. bringing a sense of hope (even if its a false). even if all they do is fall in at small farm and begin to set up a retuine. does this mean they are safe? or have build a true city? no but for that moment yes i think it gives them the hope they need and perhaps gives a child a dream to one day build a city or kingdom to keep everyone safe.
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Re: nation building

Unread post by tmikesecrist3 »

I would not say there are generations of nothingness, Knowing humans as I do I dont really see that as happing. Its called a dark age becouse we dont know what was there.... look at the fall of rome and that dark age.. we really dont know much about what was there outher then the small becanes of knowlages (the monastarys) and then the Holy roman empire. for all we know whole emparers could have rissen and fallen in that time. granted I would think there would be something left in the form of myths and legandes but the world even by the 24th centery is still to wild and dangeris for any thing like modern arcalagey to start finding out what wonders might litteraly be right under some farmers feet
"Cannon to right of them,
Cannon to left of them,
Cannon in front of them
Volleyed and thundered;
Stormed at with shot and shell,
Boldly they rode and well,
Into the jaws of Death,
Into the mouth of hell
Rode the six hundred."
The charge of the light Brigade, By Alfred, Lord Tennyson
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Re: nation building

Unread post by Gamer »

Nation building can and will happen in Chaos Earth, there are a couple cities -one being a mediocre city state- in the PA time line that were founded by survivors of the cataclysm, they do not fall in the dark ages and come back, they are said to survive and grow to what they become.
These places would make great generational and nation building campaigns.
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Re: nation building

Unread post by Icefalcon »

I like the idea of everything being up in the air. Nations should be a thing of the past.
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