IED damage

[csbioborg]

so anyone have any house ruls for damag done from home made explosives. That seems realistically is what most people are going to take out a demon with. going off the 100 sdc=1 md you could take out a demon with a oklohoma city style bomb made from home. So how much sd is say 5 lbs of black powder mixed with nails etc? Anyone worked on this?

[jedi078]

Depending on what is used in the construction of the IED you would base the damage off of that. For example if a short range missile was turned into an IED use the damage for the missile.

Homemade bombs would be a bit tricky, but won't do much damage MDC wise. For example, 5 lbs of black powder mixed with nails might (and that is a BIG might) do 1d4 MDC.

[Shawn Merrow]

Dead Reign has homemade bombs doing 5D6 S.D.C. on page 111.

[csbioborg]

Depending on what is used in the construction of the IED you would base the damage off of that. For example if a short range missile was turned into an IED use the damage for the missile.

Homemade bombs would be a bit tricky, but won't do much damage MDC wise. For example, 5 lbs of black powder mixed with nails might (and that is a BIG might) do 1d4 MDC.

I was thinking something along the lines of a van filled with homemade explosives
or in the alternative black powder filled with silver nails
some people fought back and this is the way they must have done it
since they don't have access to hi tech weapons

[Lt Gargoyle]

i would not have most black poweder explosives do anything to MDC. yes it would be a good propellant for silver, but it would more then likely melt it down into hot liquid metal or small bb size chunks. the silver i have worked with in the shop melted pretty quickly. the heat generated from the explosives would tear the soft metal to shreads if nothing else.

However with that said, in a future with MDC technology i would assume there would be MDC explosives for construction/demolition work. and once that tech was out there the internet would pass it on to anyone who wished to search for it. so there would be a homemade MDC explosive out there, which could be the foundation for the explosives in the main rifts book. 1D6 to 5D6 depending on the materials and the quality of them.

[csbioborg]

If that is the case I wonder if you could incase the silver in something
or layer the explosion somehow so that the silver was not getting the heat
although it might not be that bad the suicide bombers fill their stuff up with all sorts of stuff
a explosion might very well do a lot of damage even if bbs I would not want to get shot by a shotgun obviously
I'm thinking more long term where the resistance is going to have to start building their own weapon in many cases and what mdc ordinance you can scrounge up is going to be saved for special occasions.

Do you know how hard it would be to get iron from steel?
WIthout knowing much about it part of me wants to think you couldjust melt it down and extract it

[Neo]

I dont think you could make a MD IED, with SDC components. Being that you can make regular SDC structures stand up to IEDs , I dont think anything MDC would have a problem with said IED. The only exception would be a home made shape charge or EFP, but even then I would think you would only get 1 MD out of it.

Now if you had a character recover MD munitions and place them in MDC containers you could get some bang for your buck.

[jaymz]

Why not just base it off the various explosives from Merc Ops? Use those damage values and as long as someone has the demolitions skill along with some chemistry skills they should be able to create a reasonable though crude facimile.

[Neo]

Why not just base it off the various explosives from Merc Ops? Use those damage values and as long as someone has the demolitions skill along with some chemistry skills they should be able to create a reasonable though crude facimile.

I wouldnt even go that far Demo and Demo Disposal is all they really need (Bomb Disposal Techs are taught how to make IEDs). However Chem/Munitions skills would give some bonuses (+10%) and Jury rig would give you some more help with the construcion. Electrical skills would allow you to make sophisticated initiation sets (IR, Seismic, Radio Command ect).

[jaymz]

Why not just base it off the various explosives from Merc Ops? Use those damage values and as long as someone has the demolitions skill along with some chemistry skills they should be able to create a reasonable though crude facimile.

I wouldnt even go that far Demo and Demo Disposal is all they really need (Bomb Disposal Techs are taught how to make IEDs). However Chem/Munitions skills would give some bonuses (+10%) and Jury rig would give you some more help with the construcion. Electrical skills would allow you to make sophisticated initiation sets (IR, Seismic, Radio Command ect).

So in other words: Yeah that could work

[Lt Gargoyle]

If that is the case I wonder if you could incase the silver in something
or layer the explosion somehow so that the silver was not getting the heat
although it might not be that bad the suicide bombers fill their stuff up with all sorts of stuff
a explosion might very well do a lot of damage even if bbs I would not want to get shot by a shotgun obviously
I'm thinking more long term where the resistance is going to have to start building their own weapon in many cases and what mdc ordinance you can scrounge up is going to be saved for special occasions.

Do you know how hard it would be to get iron from steel?
WIthout knowing much about it part of me wants to think you couldjust melt it down and extract it

I have not gotten that far in forging yet. But I believe you had stuff to the iron to make it into the modern steal. So I would imagine you would have to figure out a way to seperate the two or more compounds with heat. I can get you the title to the book I am reading about black smithing (sorry I'm at the library at the moment or i just tell you now). It may help you.

Why not just base it off the various explosives from Merc Ops? Use those damage values and as long as someone has the demolitions skill along with some chemistry skills they should be able to create a reasonable though crude facimile.

I wouldnt even go that far Demo and Demo Disposal is all they really need (Bomb Disposal Techs are taught how to make IEDs). However Chem/Munitions skills would give some bonuses (+10%) and Jury rig would give you some more help with the construcion. Electrical skills would allow you to make sophisticated initiation sets (IR, Seismic, Radio Command ect).

So in other words: Yeah that could work

I'd say yes to this. In fact a character with those skills would more then likely be able to make some pretty good stuff too, provided they found the supplies.

[Dustin Fireblade]

so anyone have any house ruls for damag done from home made explosives. That seems realistically is what most people are going to take out a demon with. going off the 100 sdc=1 md you could take out a demon with a oklohoma city style bomb made from home. So how much sd is say 5 lbs of black powder mixed with nails etc? Anyone worked on this?

Might want to take a look at the CS EOD Specialist in WB11.

[keir451]

Depending on what is used in the construction of the IED you would base the damage off of that. For example if a short range missile was turned into an IED use the damage for the missile.

Homemade bombs would be a bit tricky, but won't do much damage MDC wise. For example, 5 lbs of black powder mixed with nails might (and that is a BIG might) do 1d4 MDC.

I was thinking something along the lines of a van filled with homemade explosives
or in the alternative black powder filled with silver nails
some people fought back and this is the way they must have done it
since they don't have access to hi tech weapons

Technically Timothy McVeigh (sp?) used a moving truck full of "explosives" to destroy the Federal Building (some say there was also ammo being illegally stored in the building too). A 20 foot moving truck/van filled w/gunpowder or other explosive material and containing silver shards or other pieces of metal *might* do enough damage to kill one or two lesser demons and seriously injure (and annoy) a greater demon-perhaps in the range of 3d6 x 1,000 SDC.

[csbioborg]

with silver shards wuldn't that be 3d6 x 1,000 mdc
which would kill most demons
maybe divided in half since not all the damage is silver

[Neo]

Think of it this way (depending on the book) a SD hand grenade will do 6D6 or 1D4x10. In order to make a frag IED like you suggest it would have to be 450 times larger than a normal frag grenade. If I was at work I could tell you how many pounds of Comp B that would be, but I would assume that would be well over 5,000. That is also assuming you are using military grade explosives. Gunpowder's a low explosive, so unless you knew what you were doing chances are the bomb would low order. Meaning not all of the gunpowder would ignite.

Also unless you had a ridiculous amount of silver the heat and force an explosion like that would generate would nearly vaporize most of your silver frag.

Really your best bet in taking down a creature vulnerable to silver would be to use much less explosives and go with an IED set up like an anti tank round. http://ordatamines.maic.jmu.edu/images/D3646UC1.jpg Instead of copper in the shape charge you have silver.http://media.defenseindustrydaily.com/images/ORD_M830_HEAT_120mm_lg.jpg

[Noon]

Pit traps with thermite canisters overhead might be pretty devastating. Thermite's pretty easy to get components for. If your stuck on the van idea, lit thermite canisters on the front of the speeding vehicle, ramming the demon between it's molten fury and a nearby wall.

[Neo]

You would have to ram him then set off your thermite, that stuff flows like molasses and you would end up getting more on you than the demon. Also the crash might damage the initiators. So I would make them roll some sort of skill check to see if the bombs would still go off.

[keir451]

Think of it this way (depending on the book) a SD hand grenade will do 6D6 or 1D4x10. In order to make a frag IED like you suggest it would have to be 450 times larger than a normal frag grenade. If I was at work I could tell you how many pounds of Comp B that would be, but I would assume that would be well over 5,000. That is also assuming you are using military grade explosives. Gunpowder's a low explosive, so unless you knew what you were doing chances are the bomb would low order. Meaning not all of the gunpowder would ignite.

Also unless you had a ridiculous amount of silver the heat and force an explosion like that would generate would nearly vaporize most of your silver frag.

Really your best bet in taking down a creature vulnerable to silver would be to use much less explosives and go with an IED set up like an anti tank round. http://ordatamines.maic.jmu.edu/images/D3646UC1.jpg Instead of copper in the shape charge you have silver.http://media.defenseindustrydaily.com/images/ORD_M830_HEAT_120mm_lg.jpg

*Sigh of relief* I truly love it when REAL military personnel play the game it's so much more fun.

[csbioborg]

the problem with setting off a 120mm is you need to hit all five point on the back of the round with a little electronic pulse and create enough force to make it go off all within a short and set period of time. WHen you pull the trigger inside a tank it send a small pulse of electrcity to five littlepoints on the back of the round at almost the same time the breach gives it the actin. I was just a tank crewman not EOD or anything so I don't know much about bombs but those things are pretty inert. HOw would you set a HEAT round to go off inside a bomb?

[Neo]

the problem with setting off a 120mm is you need to hit all five point on the back of the round with a little electronic pulse and create enough force to make it go off all within a short and set period of time. WHen you pull the trigger inside a tank it send a small pulse of electrcity to five littlepoints on the back of the round at almost the same time the breach gives it the actin. I was just a tank crewman not EOD or anything so I don't know much about bombs but those things are pretty inert. HOw would you set a HEAT round to go off inside a bomb?

I dont know if this post will get deleted but her goes, you can make a home made heat charge out of a wine bottle. You see all you need is a cone of a substance that can melt at the right temperature. Incidentally C4 and glass can punch through an inch of steel, I have seen it happen. The important things about HEAT (High Explosive Anti Tank) rounds are stand off and being initiated from the rear. The 120mm you are talking about would be armed by firing the weapon but it would not set of any timer (other than maybe a self destruct charge). If you look at the diagram of the HEAT I put up you can see that the explosive train for the warhead is in the front. What happens in most heat rounds is this, the warhead fires toward the target and the impact sensor (usually just a pezio-electric cap) sends an electric charge to the blasting cap at the base of charge. That explosion inverts the cone into a super heated slug of molten metal(or glass). That slug, called the Jet, is fired at the armor. If the round is too close the slug wont form and punch through the armor, if its too far away the force will not be concentrated enough.

Consequently you do not have to have a large rocket or round to have this effect, there are HEAT hand grenades that work off this principal.

[Noon]

You would have to ram him then set off your thermite, that stuff flows like molasses and you would end up getting more on you than the demon. Also the crash might damage the initiators. So I would make them roll some sort of skill check to see if the bombs would still go off.

Nah look, your forgetting that it's not that I'd have to ram him then set it off, it's that you imagine I'd have to ram then set them off. It's really hard to talk with someone when they treat their subjective imagination as objective truth. Although if you want to run some real life tests with crash dummies, trollies and thermite (be careful!) ala mythbusters, I'd be really interested to see the videos!

[Neo]

It's up to you, either you can take the hypothesis from someone who has training with the tools we are talking about, or you can go your own way and make up what you like. I like my games to have as much realism as possible.

[Nadrakas]

This might be a little beyond the "simple" M.D.C. IED talked about here.

With the plethora of Nuclear Power Systems in all of the Power Armors, Robot Vehicles, Robots (Skelebots with Nuclear...), and Vehicles you could always attempt to go Nuclear. Of course, I doubt that the material is weapons grade, but it might be able to be turned into weapons grade with a breeder reactor. Hmmm..."simple shotgun design"...probably end up with lots of radiation and a small explosion (non-nulcear), unless you had an expert.

Best bet in this case is to get ahold of a Nuclear Weapon. Any "modern" power (Coalition, NGR, etc) would keep theirs under lock & key and heavily guarded. You might be better off tracking down a Pre-Rifts Nuclear Weapon Facility (Missile Site out West, Perhaps the New Mexico storage facility -- if the Feds & NM stop arguing about it, Nuclear Missile Sub somewhere at the bottom of the Ocean, etc.). The Nuclear material will still be there, the device itself will be there --- but probably will not be in working order. Would be a pretty good adventure idea, even if the players were not the ones building the IED (Hired by a "mysterious" individual to recover one...only to later find out it's going to be used to kill lots of innocent people...Not something a "Hero" would let happen.).

Anyway, just a few thoughts.


~ N