Where is Guada Marta?

[Nadrakas]

As the subject says, "Where is Guada Marta?" Per searching the detritus of all knowledge (Wikipedia) and the rest of the dregs of the internet, and I have yet to find such a place.

I suspect it might be a made up place. If not, then where is it & reference please? If so, then where would You place Gauda Marta, and what are the two countries that you would make the two "future" antagonists who bring about the "Coming of the Rifts" (It could be a new unified nation or two in S. America)?

The reason I ask, is that I'm starting a Campaign leading up to "Day 1" of Chaos Earth. The more info on this...the better.


~ Nadrakas

[jedi078]

I think Guada Marta is a made up place. I figured it was someplace in Venezuela with the NEMA backed troops coming form Colombia.

As it is I decided that Colombia and Venezuela were the two countries responsible for the nuclear exchange that brought about the great Cataclysm.

[Jeffrey W.]

I think Guada Marta is a made up place. I figured it was someplace in Venezuela with the NEMA backed troops coming form Colombia.

As it is I decided that Colombia and Venezuela were the two countries responsible for the nuclear exchange that brought about the great Cataclysm.

I think that jedi078 is on the right track. For years I have tried to puzzle out the probable location of Guada Marta, but any research I've done has pointed out that it only exists in the pages of Rifts and Palladium Books gamers websites.

Using today's geography and political problems, I would guess that the Colombian/Venezuelan border is the site of the dispute. America's first city, Santa Marta, is in Columbia and the jewel of the northern coastline. Across 50 miles of the Sierra Nevada mountains lies the department of La Guajira, which borders Venezuela. In real-life this area has been a warzone with Venezuela and the Colombian civil war.

Combine the two areas into one battle locale and you might (with a stretch of the imagination) get Guada Marta.

A young roleplayer might buy into this theory. Do I? No, not really.

Unanswered is the question, where would Venezuela get the Glitter Boys? Clearly, Argentina is the empire with the Glitter Boys in South America. Would Venezuela somehow obtain this weaponry and use it on their Columbian neighbors? Perhaps.

Could Venezuelan oil influence an economically weak Argentina to make such a mistake in the future? Unknown.

Still, the population is too big. Today Santa Marta has seventeen times the population of the town described in the Rifts storyline.

So, it might be more probable that the battle occurred along one of the largest Ley Lines in South America to trigger the cataclysm. That would then place the battle at either the Argentina/Uruguay border or possible the Uruguay/Brazil border. The small population could indicate a relatively new town which springs up in our near future, hence not yet existing on the maps of our day.

Jeffrey W.

[jedi078]

Actually with Colombia a current ally of the United States I think it was Colombia who had the Glitter Boys and invaded Venezuela during the 'border dispute.'

Of course as Jeffrey W. pointed out Guada Marta could be along the Uruguay/Brazil or the Argentina/Uruguay border. In fact a GM can put the village where ever the heck he/she wants to.

[Jeffrey W.]

Actually with Colombia a current ally of the United States I think it was Colombia who had the Glitter Boys and invaded Venezuela during the 'border dispute.'

Respectfully, that is perhaps where we disagree jedi078. "Present day United States law allows up to 500 US military personnel and 300 civilian contract personnel to be deployed in Colombia at any given time, and only has on average about 120 American pilots and other private contractors in Colombia's anti-narcotics program. They provide counterinsurgency instruction, maintain listening outposts, or monitor air traffic from any of five US-built rural radar stations, among various other tasks. American personnel serve as liaison officers at the Colombian Joint Intelligence Center in the southern base of Tres Esquinas, which the US helped set up."

The United States would be reluctant to provide weaponry, which it would end up fighting against in the narco-wars.

Around 103 P.A., Colombia had acquired some twenty-four Glitter Boys (Rifts WB:6, page 21), and “…owes much of their technological advances to trade with [the Silver River Republics]…” (second paragraph, page 19). Maybe the SRR was the source of Colombia’s GBs in the Rifts setting, (and not NEMA from an earlier century).

Contrast that with the fact that the Argentine armed forces maintain close defense cooperation and military-supply relationships with the United States, as well as having military relationships with Israel, Germany, France, Spain, and Italy. Although Argentina was skilled at developing its own weapons (example: jets in the 1950’s), it has since enjoyed help by it’s allies since abandoning all pursuits to build the bomb.

Argentina was the only Latin American country to participate in the Gulf war and all phases of the Haiti operation. It has contributed to United Nations peacekeeping operations worldwide, with Argentine soldiers and police serving in Guatemala, Ecuador-Peru, Western Sahara, Angola, Cyprus, Kosovo, Bosnia, and East Timor. In recognition of its contributions to international security and peacekeeping, the US government designated Argentina as a major non-NATO ally.

Argentina has developed some tensions with Uruguay since 2006, and some trade friendships are recently starting with Venezuela since 2008, mostly in response to the dislike for US operations in Colombia; (could this eventually lead to Argentine GBs for Venezuela in the future?).

“A large number of countries in [South America] set up factories to build [Glitter Boys], and some survived the Great Cataclysm.” Santiago (500+ suits) relies on this suit of armor a great deal and Cordoba seems to as well (Rifts WB:9, page 173). Geographically, we are speaking of Argentina/Uruguay/Brazil.

Could this be the possible location of Guada Marta? It would seem likely, although I still would consider Santa Marta, Columbia as a second option.

Jeffrey W.

[jedi078]

Respectfully, that is perhaps where we disagree jedi078. "Present day United States law allows up to 500 US military personnel and 300 civilian contract personnel to be deployed in Colombia at any given time, and only has on average about 120 American pilots and other private contractors in Colombia's anti-narcotics program. They provide counterinsurgency instruction, maintain listening outposts, or monitor air traffic from any of five US-built rural radar stations, among various other tasks. American personnel serve as liaison officers at the Colombian Joint Intelligence Center in the southern base of Tres Esquinas, which the US helped set up."

I wouldn't take faith in wherever you got that snippet of information. I suggest you read the book 'Killing Pablo' to have an idea of the extent of U.S. military personnel and weaponry utilized in combating narco terrorism in Colombia. It was required reading for me when I went down to Colombia to be part of that '500 man strong' U.S. military contingent in Colombia.

I also would not take the little snippet of information form WB: 6 to heart either. That book was written when? (I'm not going to look it up). But since then we have seen Chaos Earth, which was written in 2003 and mentions the war on terror as part of the '30 years economic and political strife' prior the formation of NEMA. U.S. military aide in Colombia is part of the war on terror because the FARC, ELN and AUC are all terrorist groups recognized by the United States. Therefore it makes a lot of sense that Colombia would have revived NEMA weapons as part of a program to combat drug trafficking. After all as long as there is a demand for illegal drugs in the Untied States someone somewhere will provide the supply of illegal drugs into the United States.

Last but not least a lot could have changed in the 300 years between the Great Cataclysm and 105 PA. Just because WB: 6 says Colombia received a particular unit circa 105PA does not mean it didn't have that equipment prior to the Great Cataclysm.

[Nadrakas]

Well, since there is no "real" Guada Marta, I'll be placin it in Venezuela with Columbia receiving the 12 Chromium Guardsman from NEMA. There is plenty of history in the region that lends itself to "rebels" and "border clashes", so this makes sense. Venezuela and Columbia launching outdated Nukes (Say 70-80 year olde ones) at each other isn't out of the question.

I'm starting a Chaos Earth Campaign set a few months before "all Hell breaks loose," so I'll be making some handouts (Newspaper/magazine articles, scientific papers, etc) that I'll be giving out (They will also be useful later Rifts Campaigns too...).

Hmmm...Now for that map of Chicagoland: http://forums.palladium-megaverse.com/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=114582


~ Nadrakas

[Nadrakas]

I wouldn't take faith in wherever you got that snippet of information. I suggest you read the book 'Killing Pablo' to have an idea of the extent of U.S. military personnel and weaponry utilized in combating narco terrorism in Colombia. It was required reading for me when I went down to Colombia to be part of that '500 man strong' U.S. military contingent in Colombia.

Jedi078,

Agreed. Been there, got the T-Shirt...twice.

30 years of "War on Drugs"...


~ Nadrakas

[Jeffrey W.]

I wouldn't take faith in wherever you got that snippet of information. I suggest you read the book 'Killing Pablo' to have an idea of the extent of U.S. military personnel and weaponry utilized in combating narco terrorism in Colombia. It was required reading for me when I went down to Colombia to be part of that '500 man strong' U.S. military contingent in Colombia.

Jedi078,

Agreed. Been there, got the T-Shirt...twice.

30 years of "War on Drugs"...


~ Nadrakas

Sorry it took so long for me to get back to you. The “snippet of information” can be found here:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/facility/southcom.htm
Looks like they referenced it to an article by the World Policy Institute November 5th, 2005.

Arguments can be made to this, but they will tend to sound something like one of Seth McFarland’s animated skits: “I was there man, and I seen me some stuff… scary stuff”.

But when you disagree with Rifts World Book Six, well, I don’t know what to tell you. Take it up with Kevin Siembieda some time.

It’s difficult for me to disagree with jedi078 because I agree with nearly all of his thoughts on this. He must be a Marine.

I might even read Mark Bowden’s “Killing Pablo”, but in truth I waited until the movie adaptation of his book, “Black Hawk Down”. Because “Killing Pablo” might be made into a movie later this year, I might just wait until the targeted 2011 release date.

It took a 9mm round to the head to stop Pablo Escobar in 1993. What makes you think it will take a flechette round from an RG-14 RAERG in four score and some years from now?

I’m a bit jealous of all the T-shirts you fellas claim to have collected. I arrived to Panama just after Oliver North’s departure, serving four years with the U.S. Southern Command (Feb. 1988- Apr. 1992) while it was still located at the Canal Zone, and didn’t get a lousy T-Shirt; just a contact skin rash from all of the cocaine seizures we handled.

Not quite sure what Nadrakas means with: “Agreed. Been there, got the T-Shirt...twice…30 years of "War on Drugs"…” You mean to claim you’ve fought a War on Drugs for 30 years? President Nixon coined that term far more than 30 years ago, so I’m not sure what you’re saying. You are familiar with the Stolen Valor Act, yes? Nuff said.

Still, we were able to help a fellow gamemaster out on this thread with something he’s working on in one of his games, so I think we can say “Mission Accomplished”.

Jeffrey W.

[jedi078]

That snippet is nearly five years old, a lot changes in five years.

Also I suggest you read the book "Killing Pablo" as opposed to waiting for the movie because it (the book) will have a lot more information in it then the movie will.

[Nadrakas]

I’m a bit jealous of all the T-shirts you fellas claim to have collected. I arrived to Panama just after Oliver North’s departure, serving four years with the U.S. Southern Command (Feb. 1988- Apr. 1992) while it was still located at the Canal Zone, and didn’t get a lousy T-Shirt; just a contact skin rash from all of the cocaine seizures we handled.

I tend to collect T-Shirts, though in this case it's more of the "I was there" kind of metaphor when I refer to the T-Shirt. Nobody was around to sell us a T-Shirt...unless you count all the darn bugs that is.

Sorry you got a rash, though.

Not quite sure what Nadrakas means with: “Agreed. Been there, got the T-Shirt...twice…30 years of "War on Drugs"…” You mean to claim you’ve fought a War on Drugs for 30 years? President Nixon coined that term far more than 30 years ago, so I’m not sure what you’re saying. You are familiar with the Stolen Valor Act, yes? Nuff said.

Again, the T-Shirt is more a metaphor.

As for the the War on Drugs, I've been South to Columbia twice (AF - Security Forces): Once in '94 and the other in '05 (Retired now...).

The 30 years of "War on Drugs" is just a comment that we've been fighting it for one heck of a long time...not counting the many decades before that we've been trying to stop drugs in this country. It will be a never ending battle, but one we can't give up on.

And yeah, I'm very familiar with the Stolen Valor Act. And no, I'm not "guilty" of violating it.

Still, we were able to help a fellow gamemaster out on this thread with something he’s working on in one of his games, so I think we can say “Mission Accomplished”.

Jeffrey W.

And I very much appreciate the help. I had scoured every book for a reference to where Guada Marta was and hadn't found it. I thought I was going a little crazy.

So, again...thank you all.


~ Nadrakas