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 Post subject: Tamashiwara and tanks
Unread postPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2004 9:37 am
  

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Comment: The Munchkin Fairy
hi, forgive my spelling but I don't have the book with me right now. basically from what I intrepreted form "the art of breaking" was that anything that wasn't alive was broken in one hit no matter how hard it was because you attack the chi of the object. if so, then bank robbing is wasy just punch the vault door. I admit you need you need a 14 or higher, but still :shock:

is there some sort of limit on this power, I mean, it's supposed to be great but sinse you can easially get this at level one and one form starts with it at level 5 prophicincy, even though it dosn't increase as you go up in levels.

it seems like a pretty haphazard discription to me, or was I supposed to be able to crack tanks like eggs?

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Last edited by Nekira Sudacne on Sun Apr 17, 2005 12:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Unread postPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2004 9:47 am
  

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I'd rule "MDC" constructs are immune. Vaults and tanks should be considered MDC since you "can't hurt them with a colt 45", essentially.

In Rifts you *may* rule differently due to "high PPE environment", but not on "modern Earth".

As for objects with AR, I'd house rule you'd need to at least defeat the AR to do damage, so Tama against AR 17 would really need a 17 or higher, not just a 14...

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Unread postPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2004 10:57 am
  

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Comment: The Munchkin Fairy
Slagg, Now with Extra G! wrote:
I'd rule "MDC" constructs are immune. Vaults and tanks should be considered MDC since you "can't hurt them with a colt 45", essentially.

In Rifts you *may* rule differently due to "high PPE environment", but not on "modern Earth".

As for objects with AR, I'd house rule you'd need to at least defeat the AR to do damage, so Tama against AR 17 would really need a 17 or higher, not just a 14...


it lists them as SDC in N&SS, but your idea with tanks and bank vaults makes sense. in RIFTS it says in Conversion that it does a flat 1d4*10 MD in rifts to MD objects and creatures, so that's not really the question.

thanks Slagg (and should I ask what the extra G is for?)

any other thoughts or suggestions?

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Unread postPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2004 4:01 pm
  

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Nekira Sudacne wrote:
hi, forgive my spelling but I don't have the book with me right now. basically from what I intrepreted form "the art of breaking" was that anything that wasn't alive was broken in one hit no matter how hard it was because you attack the chi of the object. if so, then bank robbing is wasy just punch the vault door. I admit you need you need a 14 or higher, but still :shock:


Anything that large would simply get a fist-sized hole in it, as described in the power (note the example of punching a hole in a door while shattering or destroying smaller objects). Attacking a tank with tamashiwara might give you a window to attack the crew through, but the tank will be rolling along all the while.

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Unread postPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2004 6:43 pm
  

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Nekira Sudacne wrote:

thanks Slagg (and should I ask what the extra G is for?)



Fagidaboutit... 8-)

And the G stands for "Godly", "Gorgeous", or "Gumbah", depending on who you ask... :P

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Unread postPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2004 6:54 pm
  

now Tameshigeri on the other hand (a version of Tamashiwara with a sword) i would allow to cut a tank in half, if you rolled high enough (as the rules of the version i was shown said you could cut a certain number of things if you make a high enough roll) so if you rolled high enough to cut the front armor, crew armor, turret/motors, crew, engine block, and the rear armor (6-12 objects) then you could indeed slice a tank right in half...

why would i allow it....because its frickin cooler than hell.


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Unread postPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2004 7:47 pm
  

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I say, start with the treads, then use the vibrating palm. :) That'll probably even take out a properly restrained Rifts cyborg!
But then, how often would you have that chance.

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Unread postPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2004 2:14 pm
  

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Comment: The Munchkin Fairy
Murasame wrote:
now Tameshigeri on the other hand (a version of Tamashiwara with a sword) i would allow to cut a tank in half, if you rolled high enough (as the rules of the version i was shown said you could cut a certain number of things if you make a high enough roll) so if you rolled high enough to cut the front armor, crew armor, turret/motors, crew, engine block, and the rear armor (6-12 objects) then you could indeed slice a tank right in half...

why would i allow it....because its frickin cooler than hell.


where did you get Tameshigeri from? and why was it necessary? I the rules to say that you could use any of your marshal arts techniques wiht a wepon if you had a kata for tha twepon. so the Zanji Shinjiken-Ryu guy could do it with his kata anyway with just tamashiware.

am I missing something somewhere? :?

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Unread postPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2004 7:40 pm
  

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Tamashigieri was the result of someone here on the board being able to do a Tamashiwara style cut with a sword, which is definitely a genre thing. As far as Tamashiwara, the description clearly states that it can only be used with hand attacks, not with weapons.

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Unread postPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2004 9:10 pm
  

Slagg, Now with Extra G! wrote:
I'd rule "MDC" constructs are immune. Vaults and tanks should be considered MDC since you "can't hurt them with a colt 45", essentially.

In Rifts you *may* rule differently due to "high PPE environment", but not on "modern Earth".


:thwak: M.D.C doesn't exist in N&S.

Quote:
As for objects with AR, I'd house rule you'd need to at least defeat the AR to do damage, so Tama against AR 17 would really need a 17 or higher, not just a 14...


I'd agree, you'd have to defeat the A.R. (with a natural roll, just to make it work).


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Unread postPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2004 2:51 pm
  

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Kuseru Satsujin wrote:
Slagg, Now with Extra G! wrote:
I'd rule "MDC" constructs are immune. Vaults and tanks should be considered MDC since you "can't hurt them with a colt 45", essentially.

In Rifts you *may* rule differently due to "high PPE environment", but not on "modern Earth".


:thwak: M.D.C doesn't exist in N&S.


In the case of tanks and vaults, maybe it should! :P Or do you think a kid with a stick taking out an M1A1 waspart of Mr. Wujyk's vision for N&S? :lol:

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Unread postPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2004 4:26 pm
  

Slagg, Now with Extra G! wrote:
Kuseru Satsujin wrote:
Slagg, Now with Extra G! wrote:
I'd rule "MDC" constructs are immune. Vaults and tanks should be considered MDC since you "can't hurt them with a colt 45", essentially.

In Rifts you *may* rule differently due to "high PPE environment", but not on "modern Earth".


:thwak: M.D.C doesn't exist in N&S.


In the case of tanks and vaults, maybe it should! :P Or do you think a kid with a stick taking out an M1A1 waspart of Mr. Wujyk's vision for N&S? :lol:


Nope, that's one of the reason's P.V. was included in the N&S rules (too bad they didn't do more with P.V. though).


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Unread postPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2004 8:55 pm
  

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Tamashiwara states that the A.R. & S.D.C. of the object are irrelevant because the martial artist is really attacking the chi of the object. let them put a hole in the tank or the vault (it could make quite the mystery for the authorities) as it takes all of their attacks. & let them take ½ of the damage they did to the object :eek:


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Unread postPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2004 1:11 pm
  

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but the differense here is with Tamashiwara, you are basically kiling the object. while this man punching or kicking an MDC door is non-mutated, non-DBee, intrinsically human on a genetic level, they have the training to punch a hole in it.


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Unread postPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2004 5:15 pm
  

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Anyone here remember seeing Stormshadow do something similar to Tamiwashara on a tank?

For those who havent, here is what he did; he touched it about 4 times very quickly, and very lightly in various places. A few seconds later, the tank collapses into individual parts. (right down to the nuts and bolts)

Classic 80's moment there....

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Unread postPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2004 7:45 pm
  

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See Misfit KotLD's post a ways back in the topic :p

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Unread postPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2005 3:03 pm
  

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Ten Tigers wrote:
Anyone here remember seeing Stormshadow do something similar to Tamiwashara on a tank?

For those who havent, here is what he did; he touched it about 4 times very quickly, and very lightly in various places. A few seconds later, the tank collapses into individual parts. (right down to the nuts and bolts)

Classic 80's moment there....
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Unread postPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2005 7:39 pm
  

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Ten Tigers wrote:
Anyone here remember seeing Stormshadow do something similar to Tamiwashara on a tank?

For those who havent, here is what he did; he touched it about 4 times very quickly, and very lightly in various places. A few seconds later, the tank collapses into individual parts. (right down to the nuts and bolts)

Classic 80's moment there....


I saw that episode: it was more than four touches, and some of the light strikes were kicks as well as hand strikes, but the basis of your statement makes the point splendidly.
I can honestly say that no player of mine (nor I in any one elses' game) have ever tried to break a tank with a Tamashiwara strike.
Using N&SS with HUII however, you may want to allow such a feat, so that the martial artists can compete with the supers without having to be supers themselves.

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Unread postPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2005 10:27 pm
  

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Quote:
Originally posted by Nekira Sudacne.
Where did you get Tameshigeri from?
Probably from one of my many posts.

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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 11:19 pm
  

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Given that it's getting late and I have to wake up in a little over eight hours...

The "art of breaking" does not generally give you the ability to reduce a tank or battleship to a cloud of slowly divirgent parts. It allows you to put a hole through the object regardless of the object's AR or SDC.

So, the AR 20 tank with 100 SDC per 10x10cm area and 20cm thick armour now has a fist/forearm sized hole blowing through the armour into the compartment/baffle space behind the armour.

As the description states, you are attacking the chi of the object (should actually read "in" the object, since chi flows through inanimate objects, not radiating away such as from a person). This is why AR is ignored. However, don't forget, use of the power without one other MA power (can't remember the name) means you're likely to break every bone in your hand creating the grenade chute in the tank.

G'night all...

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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2005 9:12 am
  

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Borast wrote:
As the description states, you are attacking the chi of the object (should actually read "in" the object, since chi flows through inanimate objects, not radiating away such as from a person). This is why AR is ignored. However, don't forget, use of the power without one other MA power (can't remember the name) means you're likely to break every bone in your hand creating the grenade chute in the tank.


The power is Iron Hand. Combined, that'd make for a nasty strike... :D


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Unread postPosted: Sat Apr 16, 2005 3:54 pm
  

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Natch Yendor...natch... :D

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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Sat Apr 16, 2005 11:34 pm
  

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Now, imagine scoring a leaping power punch, using Tamashiwara, and rolling a Natural 20...

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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Sat Apr 16, 2005 11:40 pm
  

Sentinel wrote:
Now, imagine scoring a leaping power punch, using Tamashiwara, and rolling a Natural 20...

Power Punches don't do double damage in N&S.


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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2005 12:02 am
  

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Kuseru Satsujin wrote:
Sentinel wrote:
Now, imagine scoring a leaping power punch, using Tamashiwara, and rolling a Natural 20...

Power Punches don't do double damage in N&S.


Pg. 128 of N&SS, under Critical Strikes, it says power punches are critical and do double damage, as do jump kicks and leap attacks.

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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2005 12:08 am
  

Sentinel wrote:
Kuseru Satsujin wrote:
Sentinel wrote:
Now, imagine scoring a leaping power punch, using Tamashiwara, and rolling a Natural 20...

Power Punches don't do double damage in N&S.


Pg. 128 of N&SS, under Critical Strikes, it says power punches are critical and do double damage, as do jump kicks and leap attacks.


Welcome to the wonderful world of Palladium "editing." You want the description of Power Punch on page 133.


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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2005 12:17 am
  

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Comment: The Munchkin Fairy
*ahem* after more than 1 year on the boards, I have finnally corrected the title of this topic :) :lol:

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Unread postPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2005 12:19 am
  

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Nekira Sudacne wrote:
*ahem* after more than 1 year on the boards, I have finnally corrected the title of this topic :) :lol:


Congratulations!

And tanks for doing it...

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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2005 12:21 am
  

Nekira Sudacne wrote:
*ahem* after more than 1 year on the boards, I have finnally corrected the title of this topic :) :lol:


Look on the bright side, at least you actually correct things like that. There's topics that never get corrected.


Remember, better late than never. ;)


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Unread postPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2005 12:31 am
  

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Kuseru Satsujin wrote:
:thwak: M.D.C doesn't exist in N&S.


Well, just to be picky, I'll point out that the AN-M14 TH13 Inciendiary Hand Grenade and the Vehicle Stopper both inflict Mega-Damage...
But yes, tanks and banks are SDC in N&S.

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Unread postPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2005 12:40 am
  

Killer Cyborg wrote:
Kuseru Satsujin wrote:
:thwak: M.D.C doesn't exist in N&S.


Well, just to be picky, I'll point out that the AN-M14 TH13 Inciendiary Hand Grenade and the Vehicle Stopper both inflict Mega-Damage...
But yes, tanks and banks are SDC in N&S.


Don't you just love all the "we just cut and paste material from Robotech, without bothering to edit it" errors. I know I do.


Remember boys & girls, "The Veritich Fighter is not a conventional aircraft and does not apply." "Roll 2D6x100 for aircraft, 4D6x100 for Veritech Fighters, and 1D6x100 for land vehicles, to determine how many miles/kilometers they are off course by." And of course who can forget the classic, "It (Weapon Systems) includes the Destroids, vast variety of weapons, lasers, particle beams, auto cannons, missile launchers, and so on."


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Unread postPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2005 7:32 pm
  

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Kuseru Satsujin wrote:
Remember boys & girls, "The Veritich Fighter is not a conventional aircraft and does not apply." "Roll 2D6x100 for aircraft, 4D6x100 for Veritech Fighters, and 1D6x100 for land vehicles, to determine how many miles/kilometers they are off course by." And of course who can forget the classic, "It (Weapon Systems) includes the Destroids, vast variety of weapons, lasers, particle beams, auto cannons, missile launchers, and so on."


The thing I want to know, is if you're driving a car going from point "A" to point "B", 20 klicks away in an area you're unfamiliar with, and end up 1D6x100 miles/kilometres away. :lol: (Let alone how a vertitech pilot is capable of being 4D6x100 miles/kilometres off course when making a 20 minute flight on a pre-determined bearing. ;))

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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2005 10:36 am
  

Ironically, the HUGMG has some rules on tank armor that might solve the problem easier. Unfortunately it wasn't implemented very well, so it would need some work.


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Unread postPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 8:56 am
  

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Ten Tigers wrote:
Anyone here remember seeing Stormshadow do something similar to Tamiwashara on a tank?

For those who havent, here is what he did; he touched it about 4 times very quickly, and very lightly in various places. A few seconds later, the tank collapses into individual parts. (right down to the nuts and bolts)

Classic 80's moment there....
I do!! It was on a GI Joe cartoon show. He did a lot of Tamiwashara on the tank!! Tore the tank apart..with his BARE FREAKING HANDS!!!! On a side note he has used chi-gung. I have seen it in a GI Joe comic wher he show bullet scars on his chest..with like 50 or so of them..

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Unread postPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 9:01 am
  

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Comment: Dark Lord Evisceratix O'Kittensquisher
Killer Cyborg wrote:
Kuseru Satsujin wrote:
:thwak: M.D.C doesn't exist in N&S.


Well, just to be picky, I'll point out that the AN-M14 TH13 Inciendiary Hand Grenade and the Vehicle Stopper both inflict Mega-Damage...
But yes, tanks and banks are SDC in N&S.
ANd to be more picky MDC is mentioned in N&SS on pg 131 which also talks about tanks when talking about MDC... :P

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Unread postPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 9:33 am
  

ash_wednesday wrote:
Killer Cyborg wrote:
Kuseru Satsujin wrote:
:thwak: M.D.C doesn't exist in N&S.


Well, just to be picky, I'll point out that the AN-M14 TH13 Inciendiary Hand Grenade and the Vehicle Stopper both inflict Mega-Damage...
But yes, tanks and banks are SDC in N&S.
ANd to be more picky MDC is mentioned in N&SS on pg 131 which also talks about tanks when talking about MDC... :P


Yeah, right after the main statement that MDC isn't used in N&S.


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Unread postPosted: Sat May 07, 2005 5:24 am
  

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Comment: Dark Lord Evisceratix O'Kittensquisher
Kuseru Satsujin wrote:
ash_wednesday wrote:
Killer Cyborg wrote:
Kuseru Satsujin wrote:
:thwak: M.D.C doesn't exist in N&S.


Well, just to be picky, I'll point out that the AN-M14 TH13 Inciendiary Hand Grenade and the Vehicle Stopper both inflict Mega-Damage...
But yes, tanks and banks are SDC in N&S.
ANd to be more picky MDC is mentioned in N&SS on pg 131 which also talks about tanks when talking about MDC... :P


Yeah, right after the main statement that MDC isn't used in N&S.
Yes BUT it was still mentioned. :D

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Unread postPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:25 pm
  

D-Bee

Joined: Wed May 30, 2007 5:10 pm
Posts: 23
I have a question.
Tamashiwara and Tameshigeri or Setsudan if you will, all state that SDC and AR are irrelevant because you are breaking the Chi of an Object.
However, the objects they list are Wooden 2x4, Metal Lock, Ice, Door, etc. All of which do not have Chi since they are not living beings.
Tamashiwara states against living beings, it does double damage direct to hitpoints.
How are you "breaking the Chi" of an object that has no Chi?
Shouldn't it just state that you breaking the AR of an object?
Which falls to a different post I've seen in the boards; Tamashiwara on a Golem. If a Golem is living, then no, you don't break it, you do double damage to hit points.
If it isn't considered living, how are you breaking the chi of it?


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Unread postPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 1:05 pm
  

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Champion

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cms6317 wrote:
I have a question.
Tamashiwara and Tameshigeri or Setsudan if you will, all state that SDC and AR are irrelevant because you are breaking the Chi of an Object.
However, the objects they list are Wooden 2x4, Metal Lock, Ice, Door, etc. All of which do not have Chi since they are not living beings.
Tamashiwara states against living beings, it does double damage direct to hitpoints.
How are you "breaking the Chi" of an object that has no Chi?
Shouldn't it just state that you breaking the AR of an object?
Which falls to a different post I've seen in the boards; Tamashiwara on a Golem. If a Golem is living, then no, you don't break it, you do double damage to hit points.
If it isn't considered living, how are you breaking the chi of it?


All objects have chi ... it's just living objects *generate* chi.

Everything else has chi in it, because it sits in a world where chi is everywhere. So, when it says you're "breaking" the chi in the object, you would instead be "disrupting" the flow of chi through it, and dispersing the small amount of chi sitting in it.

The implication is that chi powers the Strong force that keeps us from dissolving into component subatomic particles? (Okay, not quite, but... ;) )

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Unread postPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 1:32 pm
  

D-Bee

Joined: Wed May 30, 2007 5:10 pm
Posts: 23
Borast wrote:
cms6317 wrote:
I have a question.
Tamashiwara and Tameshigeri or Setsudan if you will, all state that SDC and AR are irrelevant because you are breaking the Chi of an Object.
However, the objects they list are Wooden 2x4, Metal Lock, Ice, Door, etc. All of which do not have Chi since they are not living beings.
Tamashiwara states against living beings, it does double damage direct to hitpoints.
How are you "breaking the Chi" of an object that has no Chi?
Shouldn't it just state that you breaking the AR of an object?
Which falls to a different post I've seen in the boards; Tamashiwara on a Golem. If a Golem is living, then no, you don't break it, you do double damage to hit points.
If it isn't considered living, how are you breaking the chi of it?


All objects have chi ... it's just living objects *generate* chi.

Everything else has chi in it, because it sits in a world where chi is everywhere. So, when it says you're "breaking" the chi in the object, you would instead be "disrupting" the flow of chi through it, and dispersing the small amount of chi sitting in it.

The implication is that chi powers the Strong force that keeps us from dissolving into component subatomic particles? (Okay, not quite, but... ;) )


From N&SS:
All living beings have Chi. Essentially, It's the energy of life that flows through the earth and through every living thing. Most physically fit, mentally healthy people will have a large amount of Chi. People who are sickly or mentally disturbed will have low amounts of Chi.

If it is the energy of Life, how does a dead tree or metal lock have chi?


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Unread postPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 2:49 pm
  

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Champion

Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2003 4:59 pm
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Location: Canada
cms6317 wrote:
From N&SS:
All living beings have Chi. Essentially, It's the energy of life that flows through the earth and through every living thing. Most physically fit, mentally healthy people will have a large amount of Chi. People who are sickly or mentally disturbed will have low amounts of Chi.

If it is the energy of Life, how does a dead tree or metal lock have chi?


As I said, living beings *generate* chi (this is why a being can hold more chi than is available from the ambient).
The dead tree and metal lock will have the ambient level of chi for the area. Consider it like the force...it permeates everything. Use of tamashiwara disrupts the presence of the chi in and it`s flow through the object, making it more susceptible to damage.

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Unread postPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 6:02 pm
  

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Knight

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Interesting proposal: if 0 chi dead things can absorb ambient chi passively, shouldn't this also happen to people who are reduced to 0 chi?


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Unread postPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2018 8:52 pm
  

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Comment: Rifter Contributer 79, 81,82,83,84
well lets say that Tamashiwara works on a tank, that doesn't mean that it 'cracks a tank open like an egg'. It means it puts a hole in a part of it. The entire tank just doesn't split in half. Its still damn impressive though.

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Unread postPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 2:41 am
  

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I found the absolute positive and certain answer from the most pure and certain possible source...

GI JOE!!

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Unread postPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 2:16 pm
  

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Comment: The Munchkin Fairy
:lol: :lol: :lol:

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