Board index » SDC Worlds » Ninjas & Superspies™ & Mystic China™

 


Post new topic Reply to topic
Author Message
Unread postPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2016 2:46 pm
  

User avatar
Knight

Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2015 1:13 pm
Posts: 5980
page 127
Quote:
The process is only finished, and the Immortal finally withdraws from the world of mortals, when the advancement progresses beyond the ninth refinement.


page 132
Quote:
Ninth Time Refined
Elixir of Immortality: Nine Times Nine Selves
This final step effectively places the Enlightened Immortal among the ranks of the deities, ready to permanently discorporate (see Zenjoriki).


Page 161
Quote:
This is the first step in the character's road to the Taoist version of immortality.
That is, at any time the character may choose to Discorporate permanently.


132 "ready to" v 161 "at any time".

I'm not sure if 132 is saying you are only then ABLE (at 9th refinement) to permanently discorporate (ie you could not permanently discorporate if you were only 8 times refined) or if "ready" is more like "willing to" because you're not supposed to discorporate permanently until you do all 9 refinements.

Similarly the context of 161's "at any time". Is this in the context of "at any time once you have this Zenoriki power" or based on the preceding sentence, is it in the context of "the Taoist version of immortality" which is at the end of "the character's road"?

Discorporate is a "step in the .. road" implying there are additional steps to get to "the Taoist version".

Is true Taoist immortality the actual act of permanent discorporate, or rather, does it refer to the freedom to do so, or being in the proper state of mine (9th refined) to do so?

The "dangerous trap" referred to under Restrictions on page 161 (60% chance of failing a save vs. temptation if you do it a 2nd time in 24 hours) seems to imply that you can permanently disporate as soon as you get the power...

But is this really the same thing, failing a save vs temptation, as making the choice to ascend?

The outcome of the failed save is "the character has departed and is lost" so maybe you haven't gone to the end of the road or back to the beginning, but fallen off of it? Someone who has not mastered the 9th step of refinement (ubiquity, being able to mentally inhabit other bodies you make, right after learning to transfer your mind into a Ichild) may lack the mental stability to actually hold their minds together in whatever new afterlife they progress to?


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2016 12:05 pm
  

User avatar
Hero

Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2000 1:01 am
Posts: 841
I'll speak here in terms of philosophy and traditional Chinese folk religion, just so my context is clear;

Immortality in Taoism has complex and many faceted aspects to it. Taoist Immortality however, tends to be 'of the world'. Taoist Immortals exist within the world... until they don't. This has been lynched through a long period of synchretic assimilation to Buddhist idea's of Nirvana and so forth, but 'and he disappeared forever to places unknown' or more formally 'he joined the Tao' are descriptions of what happened to certain Taoist Immortals.

So to answer your question; Discorporations is touching the Tao. As my little signature quote says, The Way is indescribable. It cannot have the quality of being described. So when you vanish, who knows what happens. Sometimes you come back, other times you just don't. When your a 9th stage immortal, at some point you might shrug and decide your off. So yeah, the big difference is "I decide I don't come back" and "I just don't come back". It's a big of a fine philosophical point though.

_________________
The Way that can be told,
is not the true unchanging way

The way that can be named,
is not the true unnamable way


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 5:25 pm
  

User avatar
Monk

Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2003 7:22 pm
Posts: 15742
Location: 2nd Degree Black Belt of Post Fu
Comment: The Munchkin Fairy
I think the takeaway from what Owl says is: Anyone who has the Discorprate Zenjoriki may touch the tao by discorporating, but because they are not ready they run the risk of loosing themselves in the Tao permanently (Thus ending the character by accidental whim of the die)

An immortal who is 9x refined may one day decide they are ready to move on from the material plane and choose to discorporate and never come back, not rolling, simply chosing to not try to recorporate and do whatever is out there, which, as Wise Owl says, is not something anyone knows until they find themselves there.

the end result of both is the permanent end of the character as they no longer interact with the lower domains of mortals at all, except that one is by choice and one is by accident.


On the other hand, discorporate still gives you free full heal of all your health and energy pools 1x a day with no risk, so still tottally worth taking in the meantime :D

_________________
Sometimes, you're like a beacon of light in the darkness, giving me some hope for humankind. ~ Killer Cyborg

You can have something done good, fast and cheap. If you want it done good and fast, it's not going to be cheap. If you want it done fast and cheap it won't be good. If you want something done good and cheap it won't be done fast. ~ Dark Brandon


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 6:48 pm
  

Adventurer

Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 10:54 am
Posts: 719
Nekira Sudacne wrote:
I think the takeaway from what Owl says is: Anyone who has the Discorprate Zenjoriki may touch the tao by discorporating, but because they are not ready they run the risk of loosing themselves in the Tao permanently (Thus ending the character by accidental whim of the die)

An immortal who is 9x refined may one day decide they are ready to move on from the material plane and choose to discorporate and never come back, not rolling, simply chosing to not try to recorporate and do whatever is out there, which, as Wise Owl says, is not something anyone knows until they find themselves there.

the end result of both is the permanent end of the character as they no longer interact with the lower domains of mortals at all, except that one is by choice and one is by accident.


Of course, the hilarious part is that anyone who has the Discorporate zenjoriki can likewise simply choose to do it: just deliver some wry and philosophical comment, and then declare that you're ready to move on, and then -- serenely do exactly what a 9x refined type would.


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 2:20 pm
  

User avatar
Knight

Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2015 1:13 pm
Posts: 5980
True, but I have to wonder if it's the same kind of discorporation. Sure, you unify with the tao either way, but do you keep yourself together to the same degree? A 9x refined who can host their consciousness in 81 bodies seems a lot more stable to hold together some kind of presence when becoming one with the universe than some level 1 tai chi guy or level 10 hand to hand basic worldly martial artist.


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 10:54 pm
  

User avatar
Palladin

Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:40 pm
Posts: 9481
Comment: Palladium Books Canon is set solely by Kevin Siembieda, either in person, or by his approval of published material.
Axelmania wrote:
True, but I have to wonder if it's the same kind of discorporation. Sure, you unify with the tao either way, but do you keep yourself together to the same degree? A 9x refined who can host their consciousness in 81 bodies seems a lot more stable to hold together some kind of presence when becoming one with the universe than some level 1 tai chi guy or level 10 hand to hand basic worldly martial artist.

I suspect that they are not exactly the same form.
Not that the difference will be a huge issue from the standpoint of those outside the process.
Dead is dead, Universalized is Universalized... but a soul that goes onward 'properly' and a soul that goes on 'improperly' will have theological differences...
...but those differences are really not going to matter to anyone that any PC is liable to ever interact with.

_________________
The rules are not a bludgeon with which to hammer a character into a game. They are a guide to how a group of friends can get together to weave a collective story that entertains everyone involved. We forget that at our peril.

Edmund Burke wrote:
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 9:02 pm
  

Adventurer

Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 10:54 am
Posts: 719
Axelmania wrote:
True, but I have to wonder if it's the same kind of discorporation. Sure, you unify with the tao either way, but do you keep yourself together to the same degree? A 9x refined who can host their consciousness in 81 bodies seems a lot more stable to hold together some kind of presence when becoming one with the universe than some level 1 tai chi guy or level 10 hand to hand basic worldly martial artist.


[smiles sadly]

Ah. Yes, from a limited perspective, it would seem that way.

[/chooses to become one with the universe]


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 4:47 am
  

User avatar
Knight

Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2015 1:13 pm
Posts: 5980
Implying perspective even exists in the tao.


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 7:32 am
  

Adventurer

Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 10:54 am
Posts: 719
Well, imply or infer whatever you please; I'm just looking at the FAQ. "Ironically, the Steps of Refinement are pretty screwy themselves, since anyone with the Zenjorike power of Discorporate can AUTOMATICALLY choose to discorporate permanently and become an Enlightened Immortal WITHOUT going through any of the Steps of Refinement OR learning Hsien Hsia."

http://www.palladium-megaverse.com/foru ... 37&t=79261


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 2:00 am
  

User avatar
Knight

Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2015 1:13 pm
Posts: 5980
I expect NMI is referring to maximum enlightenment, which is what 9th stagers plan to do once they're done helping those left in the real world.

1st stagers (even zero) are still enlightened, just partially, progressively more.


          Top  
 
 
Post new topic Reply to topic



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users


Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group