WP Fist/Feet?

[Mad Cow Milk]

Hehe yeah I know just made a similar named thread, but I thought I would discuss something I noticed.

Is it just me or is there more favoritism for weapons over straight melee? You do more damage in general, and you get better bonuses to strike, parry, and maybe entangle.

So has there ever been any thought about having a skill for fists or feat to bring them up to par?

[Johnathan]

There are multiple skills out there that would allow for a person to raise their un-armed combat abilities. There are also multiple Martial Arts that emphasize unarmed combat over armed combat. There are even some that would flat out deny the use a weapon in their practice.

Rather than consider that a weapon can boost one's combat strengths, consider how being unarmed can be to one's advantages.

Case in point: Consider two men who, for all intents and purposes, are EXACTLY the same in every way, shape and form. They have the same stats and everything. Except for one difference, one is carrying a sword over his back, and the other is not. At a glance, who would you consider to be the most dangerous?

The point of this example is to show that if a trio of triad assassins were to have tagged these two guys for a killin (for whatever reason, it doesn't really matter), they would be targeting the guy with the sword first! Since he is percieved as the more dangerous of the two opponents. However, the unarmed opponent, really, has just as much of a chance of disarming and/or disabling these assassins as the guy with the sword in the first place...

[Mad Cow Milk]

There are multiple skills out there that would allow for a person to raise their un-armed combat abilities. There are also multiple Martial Arts that emphasize unarmed combat over armed combat. There are even some that would flat out deny the use a weapon in their practice.

Rather than consider that a weapon can boost one's combat strengths, consider how being unarmed can be to one's advantages.

Case in point: Consider two men who, for all intents and purposes, are EXACTLY the same in every way, shape and form. They have the same stats and everything. Except for one difference, one is carrying a sword over his back, and the other is not. At a glance, who would you consider to be the most dangerous?

The point of this example is to show that if a trio of triad assassins were to have tagged these two guys for a killin (for whatever reason, it doesn't really matter), they would be targeting the guy with the sword first! Since he is percieved as the more dangerous of the two opponents. However, the unarmed opponent, really, has just as much of a chance of disarming and/or disabling these assassins as the guy with the sword in the first place...

It just seems like all the bonuses to unarmed attacks transfer over to armed attacks, especially with the special weapon kata power.

[Mantisking]

Is it just me or is there more favoritism for weapons over straight melee? You do more damage in general, and you get better bonuses to strike, parry, and maybe entangle.

There's a reason why our distant ancestors picked up rocks and hit each other with them. It makes you more dangerous. Using a weapon gives you a mechanical advantage over someone who does not. A weapon is longer, sharper, harder, more efficient than a regular fist. Thus the favoritism in the rules.

So has there ever been any thought about having a skill for fists or feat to bring them up to par?

Why?

[Mad Cow Milk]

Is it just me or is there more favoritism for weapons over straight melee? You do more damage in general, and you get better bonuses to strike, parry, and maybe entangle.

There's a reason why our distant ancestors picked up rocks and hit each other with them. It makes you more dangerous. Using a weapon gives you a mechanical advantage over someone who does not. A weapon is longer, sharper, harder, more efficient than a regular fist. Thus the favoritism in the rules.

So has there ever been any thought about having a skill for fists or feat to bring them up to par?

Why?

Mechanics balancing things out a little for flavor, however you make a good point. Nvm

[slade the sniper]

There are multiple skills out there that would allow for a person to raise their un-armed combat abilities. There are also multiple Martial Arts that emphasize unarmed combat over armed combat. There are even some that would flat out deny the use a weapon in their practice.

Rather than consider that a weapon can boost one's combat strengths, consider how being unarmed can be to one's advantages.

Case in point: Consider two men who, for all intents and purposes, are EXACTLY the same in every way, shape and form. They have the same stats and everything. Except for one difference, one is carrying a sword over his back, and the other is not. At a glance, who would you consider to be the most dangerous?

The point of this example is to show that if a trio of triad assassins were to have tagged these two guys for a killin (for whatever reason, it doesn't really matter), they would be targeting the guy with the sword first! Since he is percieved as the more dangerous of the two opponents. However, the unarmed opponent, really, has just as much of a chance of disarming and/or disabling these assassins as the guy with the sword in the first place...

Disarming yes, diabling maybe if the unarmed guy is better unarmed than armed, but for killing....even a child can kill an adult with a weapon if they get lucky or strike first... weapons are better for killing most of the time in melee and for a person to get just as lethal as a weapon weilder it takes a LOT more time in the range of years...

-STS

[Mantisking]

Case in point: Consider two men who, for all intents and purposes, are EXACTLY the same in every way, shape and form. They have the same stats and everything. Except for one difference, one is carrying a sword over his back, and the other is not. At a glance, who would you consider to be the most dangerous?

The point of this example is to show that if a trio of triad assassins were to have tagged these two guys for a killin (for whatever reason, it doesn't really matter), they would be targeting the guy with the sword first! Since he is percieved as the more dangerous of the two opponents. However, the unarmed opponent, really, has just as much of a chance of disarming and/or disabling these assassins as the guy with the sword in the first place...

Actually, the unarmed guy has less of a chance to disarm or disable the Triad assassins. The guy with the sword has roughly three feet more of reach and his long, metal hand (aka a sword) does more damage than the unarmed man.

[JuliusCreed]

For all intents and purposes there is a WP for fists and feet. It's called the Hand to Hand or Martial Arts style of choice. Favoritism in bonuses for WP's is a natural offshoot of this because of the way many fighters perceive a weapon as a natural extension of themselves. But never underestimate the power of the empty hand in particular combat situations. For example a man armed with a sword has a pretty solid shot at taking down an unarmed combatant under most circumstances. But if you change the battlefield to a narrow hallway suddenly the swordsman is at a distinct disadvantage due to wielding his weapon in a confined space. Rather than being able to get a good swing in to cleave his opponent in twain, he finds himself getting his weapon lodged in a wall or ceiling or, at best, sees his attacks to basically thrusting forward.
An unarmed fighter in the same situation has fewer limitations on his methods of attack and can use this to his advantage in a big way.Of course, narrow or confined spaces limits the unarmed fighter in many ways as well, (ever try doing a roundhouse kick in a hallway?) but they are easier to overcome with any Martial Art form that provides a decent range of unarmed attacks. There are also ways to overcome the space limitations on weapons by simply switching to a smaller weapon, such as Knives, Blackjacks and various other small weapons.
Simply put, sure, WP's give an added advantage in bonuses for hand to hand combat, but that's because they're supposed to. But a clever unarmed fighter can take those bonuses away with a little forethought and planning when choosing a battleground.