DMA Demi-god

[drewkitty ~..~]

If a DemiGod (RCB2) took Dedicated Martial Artist as his OCC, how much bonus Chi points would he get?

For reference:
If the DG took a magic OCC he would get +3d6 PPE in addition to the OCC's base PPE.
If the DG took a PCC he would get +3d6 ISP in addition to the PCC's base ISP.

[green.nova343]

If a DemiGod (RCB2) took Dedicated Martial Artist as his OCC, how much bonus Chi points would he get?

For reference:
If the DG took a magic OCC he would get +3d6 PPE in addition to the OCC's base PPE.
If the DG took a PCC he would get +3d6 ISP in addition to the PCC's base ISP.

My opinion would be that he'd also get the +3D6 bonus. IIRC, N&S mentions something about super-powered heroes (mutant & non-mutant) having higher base Chi, so there's a precedent for a DemiGod to have a boost as well.

[Jay05]

+ 3d6 makes sense. standardize it for the three forms of energy. Interesting combo btw DG and DMA. Also, this (Chi and Rifts) Brings up a point. One I asked KS in a pm, and he never answered is why in the bloody world is chi and the China occs pccs rccs limited geographically to China it'sself????? It's explained in the books that chi is a focused form of isp in Rifts. Therefore why when the world is covered in ley lines which feed psychic energies would chi be so drastically diminished?

[drewkitty ~..~]

snip..
One I asked KS in a pm, and he never answered is why in the bloody world is chi and the China occs pccs rccs limited geographically to China it-self????? It's explained in the books that chi is a focused form of ISP in Rifts. Therefore why when the world is covered in ley lines which feed psychic energies would chi be so drastically diminished?

KS and EW wanted to make RC 'different' from the rest of the rifts world.
That is the Whole of the explanation.

[Jay05]

snip..
One I asked KS in a pm, and he never answered is why in the bloody world is chi and the China occs pccs rccs limited geographically to China it-self????? It's explained in the books that chi is a focused form of ISP in Rifts. Therefore why when the world is covered in ley lines which feed psychic energies would chi be so drastically diminished?

KS and EW wanted to make RC 'different' from the rest of the rifts world.
That is the Whole of the explanation.

In other words just disregard it entirely if I want to include China in my typically megaverse spanning campaigns.

[drewkitty ~..~]

they have RC to Rifts/PW conversions in the RC books.

But I take the "don't even bother" road, and use the NSS and MC MAFs if I want to add flavor to the char.
Though I would only let them take one MAF, not replacing both the physical h2h and mystical h2h that some of the RC OCC's get.

[Grandil]

Demigods would start at leats 2Xchi in my campaign.

[drewkitty ~..~]

Demigods would start at least 2X chi in my campaign.

As per the having SN PE makes the char had double the normal amount of chi as per rifter 3. Yep. But that answers a different question.

[Grandil]

Demigods would start at least 2X chi in my campaign.

As per the having SN PE makes the char had double the normal amount of chi as per rifter 3. Yep. But that answers a different question.

True, then I'd say 3d6X10-is it better?

[drewkitty ~..~]

True, then I'd say 3d6X10-is it better?

A bit short and compacted but it answers the question.

[Grandil]

True, then I'd say 3d6X10-is it better?

A bit short and compacted but it answers the question.

Thanks

[drewkitty ~..~]

being a being of magic, i would put 1d4x10+20.As he is now specializing in different form of energy, plus i would either give bonus to further chi or drop his ppe since he now focuses his being on the mystical chi as opposed to the traditional ppe road. oh yeah plus a demi is a little more powerful i think than a major deevil demon.

The question was how much bonus chi would the DG get.

Also remember, that ALL PB chars have a chi stat., just like every PB char has a PPE stat.
Mages do not loose their Chi because they specialize in using their PPE, nether should MA's loose their PPE because they specialize in using their chi.

[KillWatch]

what I want to see, but is bass ackwards to me, is an enlightened immortal DG

[Grandil]

what I want to see, but is bass ackwards to me, is an enlightened immortal DG

True, True. Why not a Godling EI? The chance to being elevated goes up greatly! WHy ppl insist
on the Demi is truely beyond me.

[Grandil]

being a being of magic, i would put 1d4x10+20.As he is now specializing in different form of energy, plus i would either give bonus to further chi or drop his ppe since he now focuses his being on the mystical chi as opposed to the traditional ppe road. oh yeah plus a demi is a little more powerful i think than a major deevil demon.

The question was how much bonus chi would the DG get.

Also remember, that ALL PB chars have a chi stat., just like every PB char has a PPE stat.
Mages do not loose their Chi because they specialize in using their PPE, nether should MA's loose their PPE because they specialize in using their chi.

what is the maximum
practical PE any character can have? 100. Look it up, it's Not 30! Most PPl think that stats
stop at 30-45, possibly 60. Noint!

[Grandil]

ANd while we're on the subject, How much bonus chi would a Godlingk get? I think the answer
would correllate to about 6d6*10 Chi. What say Y'all?

[FreelancerMar]

Ok Psionics for a DG is Kind of a given

In At least 1 PB setting Magic can be learned without formal training. And no I am not talking about a Psi-Mystic.

Learning Chi manipulation skills takes years of training, study, practice and discipline. Sometimes even decades. I would say no bonus to chi at all.

[Grandil]

Ok Psionics for a DG is Kind of a given

In At least 1 PB setting Magic can be learned without formal training. And no I am not talking about a Psi-Mystic.

Learning Chi manipulation skills takes years of training, study, practice and discipline. Sometimes even decades. I would say no bonus to chi at all.

Just how many "decades" does a Demi-god or godlingk have? I donno 'bout the Demi-God, but
the Godling has 50,000. Your point being?

[FreelancerMar]

My point being is that Chi Manipulation skills(At least in a PB Games contrast) do not come as naturally as the ability to use psi powers(provided one has them) or the ability to learn magic, which even children can pick up.

Balparking it Id say it would take at the very least 10 years of study, practice, and training to pick it up.

Another thing to consider is Whom would teach something that is already a supernatural creature, those kinds of fighting arts?? Espically in a world where most supernatural creatures are seen as the enemy. Yes a Chi-Master would be able to tell the difference between a supernatural creature and a non-supernatural creature. Just something to think about.

[drewkitty ~..~]

The Chinese Dragons have innate chi powers.

[FreelancerMar]

@drewkitty

Im just playing devil's advocate here. I am not trying to be a pain in the rear. Ifn I help them to come up with a creative background then I have done my job.

[drewkitty ~..~]

I was sort of wondering about this...

Ok Psionics for a DG is Kind of a given ...snip.

...was even mentioned.
Cause the question has nothing to do with psionics.

While I did give the ISP bonus as part of the example of what the DG gets as bonuses. The Question was about Chi.
Note: this is not about gaining chi powers from the GL powers list, it is about "If he had the class how much would the bonus be?"

[FreelancerMar]

And once agaim I would say no bonus at all for reasons I already posted. Chi Manipulation skills do not come as naturally as using the other energy types. In fact unless one is "Treained" in how to manipulate and improve ones chi it cannot be done.

Being a demi-God/godling Should not make this any easier.

[drewkitty ~..~]

And once again I would say no bonus at all for reasons I already posted. Chi Manipulation skills do not come as naturally as using the other energy types. In fact unless one is "Trained" in how to manipulate and improve ones chi it cannot be done.

Being a demi-God/godling Should not make this any easier.

This does not answer the question about why psionics were even mentioned in a discussion about Chi, when Chi manipulation abilities/skills are not psionics.
That was the essence of my last post.

[FreelancerMar]

@drewkitty

For the purposes of saving Throws Chi Masters are considered Master Psionics.(Says that right in the books)

But as for my reference about the Psionic thing is that most that do not have the N&ss/Mystic china books would probably choose a Psionic Class as one of the 2 automatic classes available to the demigod as the equivalant of a dual classed character. Remember that a Demigod can pick another power class along with the main class. They are not limited to just 1 class but they still use the Demigod experience table.

Me personally Im not sure that I would use that exact combo.
Just something to think about.

[drewkitty ~..~]

@drewkitty

For the purposes of saving Throws Chi Masters are considered Master Psionics.(Says that right in the books)

But as for my reference about the Psionic thing is that most that do not have the N&ss/Mystic china books would probably choose a Psionic Class as one of the 2 automatic classes available to the demigod as the equivalent of a dual classed character. Remember that a Demigod can pick another power class along with the main class. They are not limited to just 1 class but they still use the Demigod experience table.

Me personally Im not sure that I would use that exact combo.
Just something to think about.

Under the "how does Chi affect, or interact with the Magic and Psionics of Revised Heros?" question, page 166 N&S.

... Chi Masters have no special save against Psionics,...

I could not find any mention of Chi masters saving vs Psi as if a master Psi in my RCB1. Thou, I was not able to find my RBC1r to look in.
[You might want to state Which book and page you are pulling your data from. Just so ppl can double check in their own books.]
---------------
And as to the DG's having two classes. Might I mention that the Godling power and the Psi they get, are just Powers not classes. And to change their OCC would follow the same published rules for changing Class as everyone else. [btw the published rules are in the High Seas book.]{ Power Categories are in HU. }

The Only thing I agree with the quoted post is that the DG would still follow the DG Exp. Table for what ever Class they might change to. (Understanding that the exp. modifiers of the published changing class rules might possibly applicable.)

[FreelancerMar]

Guess my information is way out of date on the saving throw thing. Doesn't look like it's in any of the newer books. I'll have to go through my "Origional" book (It is not the revised edition) and track it down. If it is not in there then I apologize for my mistake. I was going by memory and have not looked some things up in a while.

A Page reference from the 1st edition non-revised book would be useless to those that do not have it anyway. The revised edition has a different page layout.

[Nightmask]

Found this older thread (saves me the trouble of asking for feedback myself on the idea), I would think that a demigod would have the equivalent benefits of both Extraordinary PE and Healing Factor as noted in the HU conversion notes in the Ninjas and Super-spies book. So double base chi and rapid recovery of lost chi, automatic dispelling of negative chi, and immune to Dim Mak. This seems to fit with them given they clearly have superior healing to Healing Factor and their base SD and HP are far beyond the base making it look like they deserve both styles of bonuses, which works well with such a godly inheritance.

[drewkitty ~..~]

snip... So double base chi and rapid recovery of lost chi, automatic dispelling of negative chi, and immune to Dim Mak. ...snip

Chi recovery is ether "one night's sleep = full chi recovery" or "absorbing the rate of Chi flow in the area while meditating or using the "Dragon Chi" power".

So Doubling the Chi recovery runs into the Wall of "can't get more then the chi flow of the area per melee."
Unlike with PPE and ISP, there is no "X chi per <time unit> *subtext this is how it is everywhere*"

So what you are purposing is that somehow they are somehow producing as much chi from themselves at the same rate as the Chi flow of the area, but only when they are meditating or using dragon chi.
-------
I believe there are already rules concerning the use of DM vs the SuperNat.

[Nightmask]

snip... So double base chi and rapid recovery of lost chi, automatic dispelling of negative chi, and immune to Dim Mak. ...snip

Chi recovery is ether "one night's sleep = full chi recovery" or "absorbing the rate of Chi flow in the area while meditating or using the "Dragon Chi" power".

So Doubling the Chi recovery runs into the Wall of "can't get more then the chi flow of the area per melee."
Unlike with PPE and ISP, there is no "X chi per <time unit> *subtext this is how it is everywhere*"

So what you are purposing is that somehow they are somehow producing as much chi from themselves at the same rate as the Chi flow of the area, but only when they are meditating or using dragon chi.
-------
I believe there are already rules concerning the use of DM vs the SuperNat.

No, I said double the BASE Chi, as in if they would normally have 20 from a PE of 20 they've 40. Given Healing Factor's entry says 'double recovery rate' then one would imagine that you get all your chi back in just 4hrs instead of 8 and can get half back after just a couple of hours if interrupted before the full 4 hrs is done. The character's enhanced healing is just that good with how it fixes up Chi as well as SDC and HP.

[drewkitty ~..~]

snip... So double base chi and rapid recovery of lost chi, automatic dispelling of negative chi, and immune to Dim Mak. ...snip

TY for the expansion on what you said.

[green.nova343]

snip...
I believe there are already rules concerning the use of DM vs the SuperNat.

CB1, under the N&SS conversions. IIRC, it says it won't kill them, but it reduces their M.D.C. & causes some other ill effects "until the Dim Mak touch is removed".

It's also the only place, IIRC, that actually lists a specific Dim Mak cure (2 separate Remove Curse spells successfully cast by 2 separate mages within a specified period, IIRC).

[Nightmask]

snip...
I believe there are already rules concerning the use of DM vs the SuperNat.

CB1, under the N&SS conversions. IIRC, it says it won't kill them, but it reduces their M.D.C. & causes some other ill effects "until the Dim Mak touch is removed".

It's also the only place, IIRC, that actually lists a specific Dim Mak cure (2 separate Remove Curse spells successfully cast by 2 separate mages within a specified period, IIRC).

Discorporate from Mystic China (a Zenjoriki power) also explicitly lists as a cure for Dim Mak, but only works on the one who knows it.

[Tor]

I would think that a demigod would have the equivalent benefits of both Extraordinary PE and Healing Factor as noted in the HU conversion notes in the Ninjas and Super-spies book. So double base chi and rapid recovery of lost chi, automatic dispelling of negative chi, and immune to Dim Mak. This seems to fit with them given they clearly have superior healing to Healing Factor and their base SD and HP are far beyond the base making it look like they deserve both styles of bonuses, which works well with such a godly inheritance.

A lot of people have healing factors superior to the minor super ability, but I don't think that means they should get all the same benefits. I like that there are some resistances unique to super abilities. Especially since HF and ExPE are ones that can be selected by an ancient master.

Chi recovery is ether "one night's sleep = full chi recovery" or "absorbing the rate of Chi flow in the area while meditating or using the "Dragon Chi" power".

Not exactly. There's also a middle ground where you can meditate and get full chi back in an hour. But only people whose martial art provides a chi bonus has this skill.

CB1, under the N&SS conversions. IIRC, it says it won't kill them, but it reduces their M.D.C. & causes some other ill effects "until the Dim Mak touch is removed".

I always found that incredibly weird and worth ignoring. It's like N&SS was barely consulted in writing CB1. Dim Mak doesn't even inflict damage if successful, the only time it inflicts damage to HP is if the person hit with it manages to roll with the blow.

lists a specific Dim Mak cure (2 separate Remove Curse spells successfully cast by 2 separate mages within a specified period, IIRC).

Yeah that's weird too, seeing as how that should presumably only help with magic curses, and how Dim Mak isn't even a curse, rather it's an atemi attack that disrupts chi regeneration.

Discorporate from Mystic China (a Zenjoriki power) also explicitly lists as a cure for Dim Mak, but only works on the one who knows it.

This makes me wonder what the quickest way to teach someone Discorporate is. If someone got hit, teaching them a martial art could be a race against time.

Certainly not Hsien Hsia, that takes forever. One of the martial arts that teaches a Zenjoriki at first level though, that's the ticket. Though I'm not sure if NPCs could simply choose what power they get... I mean presumably someone chooses what Body Hardening they train in to gain, but I don't know if it works the same with mystical powers or if they just spontaneously appear with no control over what.

If someone were to switch to a N&SS OCC with only 1 (primary) martial art, the fastest would be Taido, which takes a decade to learn. That's a long time to go without healing, but someone could possibly survive if pampered like heck.

I'm not clear: if someone's natural healing is disrupted by Dim Mak, does that mean that Chi-atsu by another can't be used to help them? What about magic or psionic healing?

However, if someone wants to go the path of a Dedicated Martial Artist, there is a neat trick to cut the years down.

Since Tai-Chi only takes 6 years as a secondary art (I think that's the lowest year cost for a Zenjoriki-teaching form) you could pick Basic Hand to Hand (Agent) Equivalent to Judo. That only takes 1 year to learn. That would make TaiChi the secondary and the total year cost only 7.

I imagine it's pretty hard to train in Judo without getting hurt though. Not sure about things like Tai Chi, Lee Kwan Choo, Snake or Taido though. It might be possible to learn them without any serious bruising from sparring partners. Taido seems so acrobatic that you'd end up falling while learning though, so something cerebral like Snake/Tai would seem better, but only as secondary forms, their year cost as primary is way too high.