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Looking for some help finding information in PFRPG books. Are there any vampire intelligences on the Palladium world? Is there a region were they dominate or a book where they are mentioned?

I did a quick search through my books but couldn't find anything. Even just which book has it would help.

There's only one V.I. in PF, and that's the deity, Vald-Tegor. He actively works to make sure no other VI gets a hold anywhere. You can find more about him in the book Dragons & Gods.

For vampires in general, look in the Western Empire. That book details them (although not as well as a lot of us would like), and that's also the location they seem to have the biggest population (although, if memory serves, there's a few in Timiro).

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GS
Hrmm.. now I'm eyeballing finishing my updated Gersidi...

In Dragons & Gods, it does state: "Vampire Note: Erick and I plan on releasing a sourcebook specifically dedicated to the vampires of the Palladium World. That book will contain in-depth information about the undead and their activities. In the meanwhile, players may want to take a peek at Rifts® Vampire Kingdoms for some insights into these inhuman monsters."

I see they never have released said book, but I guess you could also check out Rifts Vampire Kingdoms for info...

GoliathReturns wrote: ↑Fri Apr 26, 2024 1:20 pmThere's only one V.I. in PF, and that's the deity, Vald-Tegor. He actively works to make sure no other VI gets a hold anywhere. You can find more about him in the book Dragons & Gods.

For vampires in general, look in the Western Empire. That book details them (although not as well as a lot of us would like), and that's also the location they seem to have the biggest population (although, if memory serves, there's a few in Timiro).

--
GS
Hrmm.. now I'm eyeballing finishing my updated Gersidi...

Dragons and Gods, that's what I was looking for. I found some of the stuff in WE PDF but searching for the word "vampire" in a gaming book doesn't help much.

This god and his pantheon is what I was looking for I just couldn't remember which book it was in.

Eric42 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 26, 2024 2:59 pmIn Dragons & Gods, it does state: "Vampire Note: Erick and I plan on releasing a sourcebook specifically dedicated to the vampires of the Palladium World. That book will contain in-depth information about the undead and their activities. In the meanwhile, players may want to take a peek at Rifts® Vampire Kingdoms for some insights into these inhuman monsters."

I see they never have released said book, but I guess you could also check out Rifts Vampire Kingdoms for info...

RIfts I know almost backward and forward at this point so I was already pulling from that but I wanted some flavor text for the scenario I am writing, religious texts about a heroic vampire god that can sucker some hapless players. PB has always had a problem releasing promised books but I have to imagine that this is one of the ones that fell out due to Erick's death.

Thanks both of you for the help.

Land of the Damned #2 has Vampires (ancient 2ndary) and assortment of (additional) undead types (not sure about LotD#1). Not sure if that will help or if it might have included aspects of what KS and EW where planning.

I see Vald-Tegor as managing the population of vampires somewhat like a game warden... he wants to be sure that there are enough predators in the preserve to keep the prey at reasonable levels, but also wants to be sure that there are not too many. So he creates new master vampires only when necessary, and is willing to punish those that try to overpopulate. Like Kirgi, he draws a lot of power from the prayers of those seeking his protection.

Library Ogre wrote: ↑Sat Apr 27, 2024 10:30 am I see Vald-Tegor as managing the population of vampires somewhat like a game warden... he wants to be sure that there are enough predators in the preserve to keep the prey at reasonable levels, but also wants to be sure that there are not too many. So he creates new master vampires only when necessary, and is willing to punish those that try to overpopulate. Like Kirgi, he draws a lot of power from the prayers of those seeking his protection.

I see the game warden analogy as spot on. Because he's making sure nobody else (no other V.I.) is adding extra predators in, too.

Meanwhile, he's got the chimpanzees (humans, elves, dwarves) bringing him bananas (worship) to thank him for keeping vampires in check, while the vampires bring him steaks (more worship), thanking him for letting them exist and feed.

All things considered, the Palladium World could have had a LOT worse situation with the vampires. They lucked out with a smart vampire intelligence

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GS
What makes the green grass grow?

GoliathReturns wrote: ↑Sat Apr 27, 2024 10:25 pm

Library Ogre wrote: ↑Sat Apr 27, 2024 10:30 am I see Vald-Tegor as managing the population of vampires somewhat like a game warden... he wants to be sure that there are enough predators in the preserve to keep the prey at reasonable levels, but also wants to be sure that there are not too many. So he creates new master vampires only when necessary, and is willing to punish those that try to overpopulate. Like Kirgi, he draws a lot of power from the prayers of those seeking his protection.

I see the game warden analogy as spot on. Because he's making sure nobody else (no other V.I.) is adding extra predators in, too.

Meanwhile, he's got the chimpanzees (humans, elves, dwarves) bringing him bananas (worship) to thank him for keeping vampires in check, while the vampires bring him steaks (more worship), thanking him for letting them exist and feed.

All things considered, the Palladium World could have had a LOT worse situation with the vampires. They lucked out with a smart vampire intelligence.

I didn't have time to look but are all the vamps in the Western Empire his or are some of these incursions that he is stomping out.

Beyond mortals I think this philosophy really protects him from gods of light. I mean if you kill him and his vamps die who is coming in to replace him? Add to that he does keep other VI's out... On the idea of dealing with the worst first he ranks really low.

ShadowLogan wrote: ↑Sat Apr 27, 2024 8:16 amLand of the Damned #2 has Vampires (ancient 2ndary) and assortment of (additional) undead types (not sure about LotD#1). Not sure if that will help or if it might have included aspects of what KS and EW where planning.

Are those secondaries Vald-Tegor's? They have been there a long time so they can't be human so what species were they originally?

This really brings a question to my mind about How many dimensions can a Vampire Intelligence operate in? but I moved that to a new thread.

Warshield73 wrote:Are those secondaries Vald-Tegor's?

LotD#2 pg142 scattered about but:
-"Many a vampire freely served the Old Ones"
-"who once served the Old Ones or who were scooped up at the end of the Chaos War and dumped in the Land of Eternal Torment"

It isn't clear who the Secondaries are aligned with in terms of VIs, and the VIs might have been aligned with the Old Ones (or for all I know the Old Ones could create Vampires).

I should also clarify, "True Vampires" here "are all believed to be Secondary Vampires" giving a GM some wiggle room room for there to be Master and Wild types. Though which VI they serve isn't clear, and Vald-Tegor might be content to leave this region of the world alone as these beings can't leave (LotD#2 pg34: "so that no creature dwelling with it could ever leave"). There are also sources of Vampires not reliant on a a VI...

The Mortification Curse (LotD#2) can essentially create new vampires, which have no VI (but are trapped in the LotD). The Necromancy spell "Retrun from the Grave" (Rifts Book of Magic pg198-9, off hand I don't know if it's in PF titles) can also create a Vampire, equal to a Master Vampire. What is interesting about the Necromancy Spell is that "This magic is one of the only ways for someone to become a member of the undead (equal to a Master Vampire) without being reliant on some other source of power, such as a Vampire Intelligence." The Necromancy spell doesn't clarify if the subject can create a Secondary/Wild Vampire or not (not sure if this is due to editing in the BoM or not), but it seems to establish that Vampires aren't purely sourced from VIs.

Warshield73 wrote:They have been there a long time so they can't be human so what species were they originally?

There aren't any (vampire) NPCs in the book IINM. What the stat block writeup says though is "Size and Weight: Varies, generally human".

If we assume that the bulk of those vampires aren't Megaversal Immigrants (or just a bad Copy & Paste job), text does allow for Humans to have possibly participated in the Chaos War... If we look at PF2E main book on pg279 it talks about the "The Battle of Gods" Era, which the author reveals included humans in a meta-gaming format (in-game the race isn't known). That difference in time between TBoG and CW is 10,000years on the timeline on pg281, though humans don't reappear for another 70,000years (and 6,000years after this beginning to have a world presence). There is also talk of human civilizations being subject to cycles of cataclysm and rebirth (pg288), so it is possible that TBoG humans aren't the 1st "incarnation" on the Palladium World (though here TBoG humans are considered the first, though for LotD2 vampire stat block to work... and TBoG humans would need time to develop which could push them back into the CW-era given the timeline between TBoG and when humans began to have a world presence).

I was actually thinking along the lines that these vamps could just be created from the Old Ones. At the very least Netosa could probably create them. An alternative is that a VI that served the old ones created them and has been locked away like the Old Ones themselves.

As for non-aligned secondaries, I have seen a few in the books but they seem to be the exception not the rule.

The information in the stat block seems to be fairly generic so I think the secondaries in this location are likely to be at least elves maybe even some of the dying races.

non-aligned likely are rare when you get down to it, and its possible Palladium left it blank for the GM to "customize" which VI (if any) they are aligned with.

What I found interesting was that bit in Necromancy about that it doesn't have to be a VI that can transform one into a vampire and there might be other beings (or processes).

I reviewed Vald-Tegor in D&G (pg127-30) and found a few bits that might or might not be relevant here:
-Priest Power #3 "Control over Lesser Vampire" mentions the usual Secondary/Wild being types it can work on, but also mentions it can't work on VI (no surprise), Master, and something I don't think I've seen before "vampire lords" (who are they?) that doesn't seem to be addressed again (AFAIK).
-from his Minions info: "With the exception of a few that have slipped in from other worlds, all the vampires on the Palladium World are under his direct, or indirect control." Now few is relative and vague so in terms of hard numbers there could still be a sizeable population, plus how does the "indirect" control work?
-the Note following Doctrine for his Cult worshipers mentions: "there is a thriving sect in the Land of the Damned." So its possible the Vampires here could be related to him (when he was a pure VI?), or are under his "indirect" control (what ever that is supposed to mean), or qualify as the few to slip in from other worlds. This also forces a revision to the idea he just leaves the region alone.