Supernatural creatures and Parrying

[Mouser13]

Little difference in rules on parry with supernatural creatures and one my players also another GM.


Can a supernatural creature attempt to parry and weapon such has sword. I thought I had one in palladium say they could but can't seem to find it(Thought mention something like supernatural strength creatures are always armed when fighting say sword welding paladin, I confuses could be mixing systems) . Can't find one in rifts at all either.


Following the rules on pg 340 of RIFTS Ultimate Edition seems to say they can't. Unless count demon flesh has object. Seem even by my standards a bit of stretch.

Wonder if anyone else can offer insight.

[ShadowLogan]

In a generic sense they should still be able to parry (I assume that anything with a Parry bonus can Parry). The real question IS HOW they would parry in terms of the scene being painted. And that is going to come down to the creature and the method of attack in question.

Something like a Tirrvol (WB11/30) can parry a MD-sword attack in a classic sense (blade on blade), but other creatures are less clear cut on how it would work. Obviously, you need a limb capable of performing a parry), so that might rule out some creatures from being able to parry. You then need to work out how the parry occurs (for visual story telling, mechanically the details could be ignored), do they "catch" the blade in their hand/claw, do they parry the wielding limb itself and not the weapon, could their body (or section of) be considered to work as a "shield" or suitable weapon (obviously this is going to vary by species)

Also review pg340 of RUE it does allow for parrying w/o an MDC object ("Parry a weapon bare-handed is dangerous and all such attempts are without benefit of the character's parry bonuses. To succeed in a bare-handed parry, the defender must block his attacker by hitting his arm or hand, not the weapon itself." Mechanically this benefits the attacker than the defender, but it is possible.

[hup7]

If you read dragons on page 160+ in RUE you can note that dragons get a parry bonus and inflict MD with their claws.

Then on page 340 under combat...
"A physical Mega-Damage (M.D.) attack from a Supernatural punch or claw, or an attack with an M.D. melee weapon (magic sword, Vibro-Blade, etc.) can be parried / blocked by another M.D. object such as a Vibro-Blade, an M.D.C. rifle, a piece of M.D.C. metal, or a hand or arm that is clad in M.D.C. armor"

If you can parry a weapon with an arm clad in MDC armor, and a supernatural creature is effectively MDC then I would say - yes.

Only my interpretation, happy gaming.

[Killer Cyborg]

If you read dragons on page 160+ in RUE you can note that dragons get a parry bonus and inflict MD with their claws.

Then on page 340 under combat...
"A physical Mega-Damage (M.D.) attack from a Supernatural punch or claw, or an attack with an M.D. melee weapon (magic sword, Vibro-Blade, etc.) can be parried / blocked by another M.D. object such as a Vibro-Blade, an M.D.C. rifle, a piece of M.D.C. metal, or a hand or arm that is clad in M.D.C. armor"

If you can parry a weapon with an arm clad in MDC armor, and a supernatural creature is effectively MDC then I would say - yes.

Only my interpretation, happy gaming.

I concur with your logic.

[Grazzik]

If you read dragons on page 160+ in RUE you can note that dragons get a parry bonus and inflict MD with their claws.

Then on page 340 under combat...
"A physical Mega-Damage (M.D.) attack from a Supernatural punch or claw, or an attack with an M.D. melee weapon (magic sword, Vibro-Blade, etc.) can be parried / blocked by another M.D. object such as a Vibro-Blade, an M.D.C. rifle, a piece of M.D.C. metal, or a hand or arm that is clad in M.D.C. armor"

If you can parry a weapon with an arm clad in MDC armor, and a supernatural creature is effectively MDC then I would say - yes.

Only my interpretation, happy gaming.

I concur with your logic.

I also agree.

However, does the claw/arm/tentacle used to parry suffer damage from the strike? I typically ignore it for the sake of resolving combat faster, so I haven't looked into it. I know that MDC weapons can break if they suffer too much damage while parrying... which makes sense. By that logic, I presume you can still hack off a limb used to parry.

[Zer0 Kay]

If you read dragons on page 160+ in RUE you can note that dragons get a parry bonus and inflict MD with their claws.

Then on page 340 under combat...
"A physical Mega-Damage (M.D.) attack from a Supernatural punch or claw, or an attack with an M.D. melee weapon (magic sword, Vibro-Blade, etc.) can be parried / blocked by another M.D. object such as a Vibro-Blade, an M.D.C. rifle, a piece of M.D.C. metal, or a hand or arm that is clad in M.D.C. armor"

If you can parry a weapon with an arm clad in MDC armor, and a supernatural creature is effectively MDC then I would say - yes.

Only my interpretation, happy gaming.

I concur with your logic.

I also agree.

However, does the claw/arm/tentacle used to parry suffer damage from the strike? I typically ignore it for the sake of resolving combat faster, so I haven't looked into it. I know that MDC weapons can break if they suffer too much damage while parrying... which makes sense. By that logic, I presume you can still hack off a limb used to parry.

No per rules an object (whatever it is) used to parry takes no damage unless it is the target of the attack. In line with that I (not according to the rules) allow any thing to parry anything which it can come in contact with EXCEPT projectiles. They are for the most part considered too fast to compensate for and even in the case of dodging it is the driving device (gun, bow, etc. The character is dodging not the projectile itself save cases where someone has the ability to move as fast or faster than the projectile. After all is it the toughness of the object or the strength of the defender that allows the parry? I claim it is neither it is the finesse, physical prowess that allows them to effectively parry. A parry is a redirection of force not blocking so the object doesn't have to be hard enough. A skilled person can parry a sword or knife bare handed even though the steel is stronger than their body. They aren't grabbing the weapon they are redirecting it even sword on sword it is undesirable to block with the edge and ruin it instead an attempted parry is hoped that their cutting edge is redirected so their flat is against your flat and slides off your blade in a direction that you aren't. In the same way at point blank a gun should be able to be parried. NOT by deflecting the bullet but by redirecting the aim of the gun to a place that you aren't. I think they should have a dodge parry and block.

Dodge uses bonuses from Spd and PP like it did back in the day. No damage on success. Not close enough to melee (takes you out of melee)

Parry uses bonuses from PP maybe also include Spd if carrying a ranged weapon to simulate the ability to close distance to perform the parry. Close distance good to continue melee parry object receives no damage.

Block uses PS and PP to simulate your characters ability to get the item in the way and hold it there. Blocking object receives all damage and G.I. Joe rule. Not just because, but because the person blocking would or should twist away the attack if it is breaking through. A failed roll means either your strength failed and you weren't able to resist or the material broke and you couldn't tell it was happening.

[Grazzik]

No per rules an object (whatever it is) used to parry takes no damage unless it is the target of the attack. In line with that I (not according to the rules) allow any thing to parry anything which it can come in contact with EXCEPT projectiles. They are for the most part considered too fast to compensate for and even in the case of dodging it is the driving device (gun, bow, etc. The character is dodging not the projectile itself save cases where someone has the ability to move as fast or faster than the projectile. After all is it the toughness of the object or the strength of the defender that allows the parry? I claim it is neither it is the finesse, physical prowess that allows them to effectively parry. A parry is a redirection of force not blocking so the object doesn't have to be hard enough. A skilled person can parry a sword or knife bare handed even though the steel is stronger than their body. They aren't grabbing the weapon they are redirecting it even sword on sword it is undesirable to block with the edge and ruin it instead an attempted parry is hoped that their cutting edge is redirected so their flat is against your flat and slides off your blade in a direction that you aren't. In the same way at point blank a gun should be able to be parried. NOT by deflecting the bullet but by redirecting the aim of the gun to a place that you aren't. I think they should have a dodge parry and block.

Dodge uses bonuses from Spd and PP like it did back in the day. No damage on success. Not close enough to melee (takes you out of melee)

Parry uses bonuses from PP maybe also include Spd if carrying a ranged weapon to simulate the ability to close distance to perform the parry. Close distance good to continue melee parry object receives no damage.

Block uses PS and PP to simulate your characters ability to get the item in the way and hold it there. Blocking object receives all damage and G.I. Joe rule. Not just because, but because the person blocking would or should twist away the attack if it is breaking through. A failed roll means either your strength failed and you weren't able to resist or the material broke and you couldn't tell it was happening.

Thanks for the breakdown - really helpful. I think I was mixing it up with the damage to a weapon wielded in SNPS melee strikes rule.

What you describe as a "block" is what I have probably always envisioned as a type of "parry" (namely because of how many times we see it in movies and such), but you are right - the "block" is about absorbing a strike rather than deflecting it. Hopefully in Rifts 3.0 they add in a game mechanic for "block with weapon" rather than expecting us to house rule some modified Shield rules for the move.

And, yes, let's make SPD means something other than run fast!

[Zer0 Kay]

SPD used to count toward dodge in TMNT and 1E PFRPG and non-revised N&S. I just still use the tables since fast twitch muscles are used for more than just running.

[knightmare6]

SPD used to count toward dodge in TMNT and 1E PFRPG and non-revised N&S. I just still use the tables since fast twitch muscles are used for more than just running.

Yeah, I still use Speed for the Initiative bonus too!

As for parrying, I allow characters unarmed to try to parry an armed melee attacker, but they suffer a penalty, but under normal circumstance, a defender can still try either the very risky blade-catch (-6) or get inside the range and strike the lower forearms before the swing/arc can be completed (-4).

A failed "blade" catch inflicts full attack damage, no need to roll.

[Zer0 Kay]

SPD used to count toward dodge in TMNT and 1E PFRPG and non-revised N&S. I just still use the tables since fast twitch muscles are used for more than just running.

Yeah, I still use Speed for the Initiative bonus too!

As for parrying, I allow characters unarmed to try to parry an armed melee attacker, but they suffer a penalty, but under normal circumstance, a defender can still try either the very risky blade-catch (-6) or get inside the range and strike the lower forearms before the swing/arc can be completed (-4).

A failed "blade" catch inflicts full attack damage, no need to roll.

Why do they have to perform a blade catch that isn't a parry that is a catch. A parry deflects the attack.

[knightmare6]

Why do they have to perform a blade catch that isn't a parry that is a catch. A parry deflects the attack.

Brain fart late at night, LOL! As that would require the use of an ATT

[Zer0 Kay]

Hmm... N&S does a lot better at the multitude of moves but also makes combat FAR more complicated.