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I always wanted to pair him off with Carol Black but I don't know if she would be interested in having kids as she's older. Joseph would have to eventually have some offspring to establish confidence in the family continuity.

Then again, with CS life extension tech, women might remain remain fertile longer with less chance of problems, dunno.

Unfortunately, having a psychic wife (even if she has no mind control abilities) might undermine public confidence in the emperor.

I was looking for someone younger. Loni Kashbrook is younger than Carol Black but she's still in her 40s, dunno what public attitudes would be on the emperor having a wife over a decade older than he is. Not sure how old Joseph's mother is (perhaps Karol or Loni would've made a good 2nd wife for Karl if Coake didn't rescue Joanna Prosek) since I don't think we got her stats, but I pretty much assumed she was same age or younger than Karl.

Looking elsewhere in Lone Star: what about Lianna San Doria on page 144? Sure, she's leading a band of Pecos Bandits... but maybe she'd be willing to settle down later? She's from a prominent family, and the whole reason she became a bandit was because she was kidnapped by raiders. She is honorable like Joseph and a strong figure that CS women could look up to as a warrior-maiden role model.

She also has the problem of being a psychic like Carol Black, but in her case she's merely minor instead of major, so it might not be as much of a huge problem. She's definitely have to ditch her TW 6-shooters and kill anyone who knew she used them, but otherwise, could work. She's a year younger than Joseph and they could make strong kids together.

Am I forgetting any other good fleshed-out NPCs who would make good wife material for Joseph?

I forget what the title is, I don't think Joanna is called Empress, is it just 'wife of the emperor' or 'first lady' or something like that?

Don't look in the CS.
Look in Free Quebec, or another place that the CS needs stronger political ties with.

Also, it's illegal for psychics to have sex with normal humans.

Why? Why are you trying to find him a wife? To what is this relevant in your campaign?

cosmicfish wrote:Why? Why are you trying to find him a wife? To what is this relevant in your campaign?

What kind of campaigns do YOU run...?

Killer Cyborg wrote:

cosmicfish wrote:Why? Why are you trying to find him a wife? To what is this relevant in your campaign?

What kind of campaigns do YOU run...?

Not the kind where the marriage of a Prosek is relevant? Among other things, I try to keep the background world as static as possible - my campaigns are on a smaller scale, and changing the background means that I run the risk of contradicting future books.

But also, it is a hard question to answer without knowing the motivation for it. There are lots of choices, plus the option of writing one from scratch. The best one from a strictly relationship perspective is almost impossible to answer with the available information and, to be honest, its kind of creepy anyway. The best one to serve as an important plot point in a campaign depends on the plot point - is she supposed to take over his mind and make him her puppet, is she supposed to be the one who is turning him to good, the one who is turning him more evil, the one who gets kidnapped and provides some new enemy of the Coalition the opportunity to take one of those routes, what? All of those could point to very different choices.

honestly, if this were to become an issue in a game, if i was the GM i'd want to invent a new NPC to take the role.

Killer Cyborg wrote:Look in Free Quebec, or another place that the CS needs stronger political ties with.

WB22p173: Elaine Marie Jeunet, 24 years old, seems like a really appealing candidate. Hopefully Joseph wouldn't be upset if his wife could outrun/outlift him (he can at least outlast her). His stronger will/personality might make up for her having a slight edge in intelligence. Non-psionic, same alignment, and a similar taste in HtH skills as him. Although I thought Special Forces could only have HtH Commando so not entirely sure how she got Assassin.

Sorting out the Riverbend Ambush could be tricky. I say pin it on Robert Carlyle, bury her involvement, she was misled by him after all.

Did Aftermath ever talk about whether she and her loyal Viper Delta troops ever rebelled against the Children of Freedom? If they were part of the guys who helped the CS during the Tolkeen war, that might help make up for any involvement they had in instigating the FQ conflict. Who says a destroyed military career can't be repaired? If they can spin Larsen...

Something about a CS military specialist piloting an Enforcer and a CS special forces piloting a SAMAS hooking up, that's a power couple! She has a real 'evil empress' look to her that I could get behind.

Killer Cyborg wrote:it's illegal for psychics to have sex with normal humans.

Where'd that get introduced again? *dreams of all non-Stalker humans in CS becoming intangible Psi-Ghosts centuries in the future evaporating*

cosmicfish wrote:Not the kind where the marriage of a Prosek is relevant?

I guess that means you won't get involved the Joana/Coake related stuff then. I think establishing an heir for Joseph II would be a pretty critical thing for raising the hopes of the CS after all this.

cosmicfish wrote:Among other things, I try to keep the background world as static as possible - my campaigns are on a smaller scale, and changing the background means that I run the risk of contradicting future books.

If it ever introduces a different wife for Joseph you could always kill her off or fake her death and have her be an off-the-books 2nd wife.

cosmicfish wrote:But also, it is a hard question to answer without knowing the motivation for it.

The motive is speculation about who Joseph and others with sway would pick to build the CS future.

cosmicfish wrote:There are lots of choices, plus the option of writing one from scratch.

Scratch writing is always possible but has infinite possibilities so I'm focusing on existing possibilities in canon to tap.

cosmicfish wrote:The best one from a strictly relationship perspective is almost impossible to answer with the available information

I don't know how much he would actually need one in relationship terms. Whatever he might gain in that effect, I suspect he might prioritize her role within propoganda/PR as a first consideration.

cosmicfish wrote:its kind of creepy anyway.

I'm an Amon+Splynncryth+Cihuacoatl shipper, this is nothing.

cosmicfish wrote:is she supposed to take over his mind and make him her puppet

Naw, I think Psi-Net/Psi-Bat would prevent that. Unless you introduced super-powers from CB1 in which case, the CS hasn't necessarily built anti-super-ability countermeasures so "Control Others" could be a serious problem. I still think people might pick up on it though, if she weren't subtle.

cosmicfish wrote:is she supposed to be the one who is turning him to good, the one who is turning him more evil

Naw, more like "Joseph is choosing her to create an heir and improve public moral, and what do Karl and Joana think?"

cosmicfish wrote:

Killer Cyborg wrote:

cosmicfish wrote:Why? Why are you trying to find him a wife? To what is this relevant in your campaign?

What kind of campaigns do YOU run...?

Not the kind where the marriage of a Prosek is relevant?

To each their own.

Tor wrote:

Killer Cyborg wrote:it's illegal for psychics to have sex with normal humans.

Where'd that get introduced again? *dreams of all non-Stalker humans in CS becoming intangible Psi-Ghosts centuries in the future evaporating*

SB1 12

psychic powers are considered a mutation

Psionic mutants (and all other mutants) are forbidden, by law, to engage in sexual activity with non-psionics/non-mutants.

I expect a lot of minor psychics get away with mixing with normals since they're not registered though...

Of course: it's possible Joseph II might alter these policies over time, what with Carol Black greatly improving the images of psychics in society and him being cozy with her about it. Kind of like how those English kings went Protestant so they could get divorces.

Elaine Marie Jeunet isn't psychic though, curious what you think of her as a candidate.

Tor wrote:I expect a lot of minor psychics get away with mixing with normals since they're not registered though...

Possibly, although it'd still be illegal, and the penalties would likely be very steep.

Of course: it's possible Joseph II might alter these policies over time, what with Carol Black greatly improving the images of psychics in society and him being cozy with her about it. Kind of like how those English kings went Protestant so they could get divorces.

It'd cause quite a stir, but it might serve much the same purpose as the marriage to somebody from a kingdom. It would help further Psychic rights, and help psychics feel as if they belonged more fully in the Coalition.
Of course, there would be the flipside too--a lot of people would be angry about it, and rumors would likely abound that she had him under her psychic thrall.

Marrying Jeunet wouldn't further psychic rights as she isn't psychic =/

The Special Forces O.C.C. from Rifts Mercenaries pg 26-27, can have Hand to Hand: Assassin at the cost of one 'other' skill, and an 'Evil' Alignment.

Forbidden love is a staple of literature...and pulp...I hear JP2's got a thing for androids.

His Dudeness wrote:The Special Forces O.C.C. from Rifts Mercenaries

I prob shouldn't have abbreviated it in the first mention, though I did use the full name in the 2nd case, she's a CS Special Forces (CWCp86)

I also overlooked another interesting French romantic candidate.

Julie Marie Tremblay on page 146. She's a Military Specialist like Joseph II is, a non-psychic, 25 year old, experience with propoganda, also a SAMAS pilot.

She's done some anti-CS stuff too. The main difference is it's speech-based rather than warfare based.

Harder to say which is harder to spin/bury to make her a pro-CS appeal again. Both have their own challenges.

Elaine Marie Jeunet and Julie Marie Tremblay perhaps could both court Joseph and have some kind of Betty/Veronica thing going on. Odd how 2 viable candidates both have the same middle name too...

Picturing a SAMAS sitting on either arm of a posing UAR-1 enforcer now.

Having 2 wives would increase the chances of continuing the Prosek family line, anyone know if the CS is against polygamy? I haven't seen any examples of it, but family isn't much focused on to know.

Tor wrote:Marrying Jeunet wouldn't further psychic rights as she isn't psychic =/

Right--I skipped a few thoughts ahead and to the side, and was discussing a possible marriage to Carol Black.


I can't say much about Jeunet. Never read up much on Quebec or its inhabitants.

OK, I'm not understanding what this is about... could somebody plz remind me who Carol Black is, and what book she's from?

Svartalf wrote:OK, I'm not understanding what this is about... could somebody plz remind me who Carol Black is, and what book she's from?

Psyscape Book

Page 147

Lt. Col. Carol Black: Psi-Battalion Commander (Her P.B. is 12 - important to this thread lol?)

---------------------------------------

What if Joe likes guys?

Tor wrote:

cosmicfish wrote:its kind of creepy anyway.

I'm an Amon+Splynncryth+Cihuacoatl shipper, this is nothing.

I about spit out my drink. /applause

Thanks Fell... so, yeah, opening rights for psychic mutants.... slippery slope to negociate...

I take it we can already rule out any shapeshifters like dragons, changelings, or Zenith Moonwarpers?

Only if they're discovered...

Dragons I think register as supernatural beings (in addition to being creatures of magic), or at least psychics or mages, so they'd be blatent to Psi-Stalkers, same with Moon Warpers.

A non-mage non-psionic Changeling is a creature of magic, but I don't think they're a supernatural being, so I don't think a Psi-Stalker or Dog Boy's free passive abilities could detect them.

"Presence Sense" responds to creatures of magic though, even if it can't pinpoint their location. See Aura could also be used to show they aren't human.

The need for active interventions mean Changelings may be able to get pretty far into CS society. But I'm pretty sure anyone introduced to Joseph is going to get their aura screened. The CS also might know enough about changelings to make salt a mandatory regular addition to food. Depends on how good their Lore: D-bee is, I guess.

I would think that at this level your talking full on blood tests. Possibly with genetic sequencing......

Wasn't he married in some of the material?

Not sure, I only remember Jo-Anna being Karl's wife and some of Karl's siblings being married mentioned by name at back of CWC.

Genetic testing would be a step I'd expect as he got closer to someone, but a See Aura is quicker to process as an immediate "keep away from her she's not human" thing.

Tor wrote:Only if they're discovered...

Dragons I think register as supernatural beings (in addition to being creatures of magic), or at least psychics or mages, so they'd be blatent to Psi-Stalkers, same with Moon Warpers.

A non-mage non-psionic Changeling is a creature of magic, but I don't think they're a supernatural being, so I don't think a Psi-Stalker or Dog Boy's free passive abilities could detect them.

"Presence Sense" responds to creatures of magic though, even if it can't pinpoint their location. See Aura could also be used to show they aren't human.

The need for active interventions mean Changelings may be able to get pretty far into CS society. But I'm pretty sure anyone introduced to Joseph is going to get their aura screened. The CS also might know enough about changelings to make salt a mandatory regular addition to food. Depends on how good their Lore: D-bee is, I guess.

Actually, the dog boys sense supernatural passive power is not the same as the psi-stalkers, The Dog Boy's power says explictly they can sense creatures of magic as well as supernatural beings, even if they are not using any powers or magic, while psi-stalkers cannot sense creatures of magic, unlike the psi-stalkers tracking ability. which would explain why they use Dog boys even more than Psi-stalkers (well, besides being easier to replace and generally easier to handle)

Tor wrote:The need for active interventions mean Changelings may be able to get pretty far into CS society. But I'm pretty sure anyone introduced to Joseph is going to get their aura screened. The CS also might know enough about changelings to make salt a mandatory regular addition to food. Depends on how good their Lore: D-bee is, I guess.

The dog boys ability does NOT require an active use of magic/supernatural powers to detect and track, unlike the psi-stalker, it's just easier to do so if they are. and the ability is free-passive and always on. and allows them to identify the specific race and type of creature of magic or supernatural. So not only can they sense changelings as a creature of magic, they can identify they ARE changings.

It's easy to skim the similar-looking sections and assume the dog boys and psi-stalkers ability are basically the same, but if you read the fine print, the dog boys version is far superior.

Tor wrote:Not sure, I only remember Jo-Anna being Karl's wife and some of Karl's siblings being married mentioned by name at back of CWC.

Siblings? I remember Karl having some cousins and such, but no siblings mention (except for the Joseph I's secret bastard legend).

the head of Triax industries is automatically the vice-president of the NGR...so, I'd be looking in that direction to cement a German/American "Axis of Mankind" (or somesuch)

Braden Campbell wrote:the head of Triax industries is automatically the vice-president of the NGR...so, I'd be looking in that direction to cement a German/American "Axis of Mankind" (or somesuch)

Interesting, but from a localization standpoint it ain't very pratical, not to mention i don't think presidency in the NGR is a lifetime position, not to mention hereditary...

What about the as yet unmentioned daughter of Erin Tarn?

RiftJunkie wrote:What about the as yet unmentioned daughter of Erin Tarn?

All Hail the Savior of Humanity!

-STS

Erin Tarn, so they can nag each other to death.

This thread remains the creepiest I have seen on here. Ever. I keep expecting it to be gone, but no, people are still here enthusiastically and sincerely matchmaking for Rifts' version of Himmler...

Egad.

Nekira Sudacne wrote:the dog boys sense supernatural passive power is not the same as the psi-stalkers, The Dog Boy's power says explictly they can sense creatures of magic as well as supernatural beings

RUEp145 "creatures of magic such as Faeries". Darn, you're right. My mistake is assuming the Psi-Hounds power worked like it did in RMB/LoneStar, seems RUE powered them up in this respect but not the Psi-Stalkers. Will underline for emphasis to help remember the diff later.

Since they couldn't do this in previous books, perhaps this reflects more sophisticated genetic engineering by Bradford or more sophisticated training by the CS military?

Since they did not get a RUE update I guess this means that Ursa-Warriors and Battle-Cats still can't do it?

Nekira Sudacne wrote:allows them to identify the specific race and type of creature of magic or supernatural. So not only can they sense changelings as a creature of magic, they can identify they ARE changings.

Not sure in that respect. They can make a skill-roll to identify the specific type/race of supernatural beings... but the "as well as creatures of magic" just seems like they can identify it is a CoM but not which kind, so they may not know if it's a Changeling or a Dragon. Although since they could sense dragons prior to getting this new ability (since they were supernatural) they should be able to tell a dragon apart.

Nekira Sudacne wrote:It's easy to skim the similar-looking sections and assume the dog boys and psi-stalkers ability are basically the same, but if you read the fine print, the dog boys version is far superior.

One tends to skim reprints, why I didn't notice TKsuper got better for so long =/

Tor wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:the dog boys sense supernatural passive power is not the same as the psi-stalkers, The Dog Boy's power says explictly they can sense creatures of magic as well as supernatural beings

RUEp145 "creatures of magic such as Faeries". Darn, you're right. My mistake is assuming the Psi-Hounds power worked like it did in RMB/LoneStar, seems RUE powered them up in this respect but not the Psi-Stalkers. Will underline for emphasis to help remember the diff later.

Since they couldn't do this in previous books, perhaps this reflects more sophisticated genetic engineering by Bradford or more sophisticated training by the CS military?

Honestly, seems reasonable to me. No reason that development into Psi-hound genetics would stop, they can always be improved, as the addition of being able to passively detect creatures of magic clearly indicates, and it's a pretty good improvement at that.

Since they did not get a RUE update I guess this means that Ursa-Warriors and Battle-Cats still can't do it?

cannonically no, not unless they also get an update in a future book, but if one does assume the "The RUE dog boy represents a superior breed developed and put into wide production circa 109 PA, replacing the myriad casulties taken in the Tolkeen conflict" way, it should be possible in theory to add that ability to them as well, although it would require a bit more tweaking to be fully compatible.

They should still have the lower base skill to do so in either case.

Nekira Sudacne wrote:allows them to identify the specific race and type of creature of magic or supernatural. So not only can they sense changelings as a creature of magic, they can identify they ARE changings.

Not sure in that respect. They can make a skill-roll to identify the specific type/race of supernatural beings... but the "as well as creatures of magic" just seems like they can identify it is a CoM but not which kind, so they may not know if it's a Changeling or a Dragon. Although since they could sense dragons prior to getting this new ability (since they were supernatural) they should be able to tell a dragon apart.

I disagree, I think the sentance pretty clearly indicates the subject--identifying the specific race--applies to both

Nekira Sudacne wrote:It's easy to skim the similar-looking sections and assume the dog boys and psi-stalkers ability are basically the same, but if you read the fine print, the dog boys version is far superior.

One tends to skim reprints, why I didn't notice TKsuper got better for so long =/

Personally, I like the change. it gives the psi-stalkers and dog boys more flavor and gives a reason why they continue to use both. Psi-stalkers are generally allowed more creativity and better in a fight aginst supernatural beings, but dog boys psychic senses are superior.

Was searching for pics of Joseph and came across this; http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2027/157 ... fa2f_o.jpg

Anyone know who the girl on the far right is? Not sure what book it's from, wondering if it's associated with a group of NPCs. She looks spunky.

SolCannibal wrote:Siblings? I remember Karl having some cousins and such, but no siblings mention (except for the Joseph I's secret bastard legend).

No legitimate siblings surviving but he did have some. CWCp216 says "brothers and father have all perished at the hands of the enemies of humankind".

One brother is mentioned, Kenneth (oh my god, they killed him!) and he had 4 kids. 2 nephews for Karl: Edmond and Ryan, and 2 nieces: Lisa and Meggan. Edmond actually outranks Joseph II and Carol Black, he's the lowest-rank kinda General. Since Ryan's a waste of air and Lisa's married off, I think that makes Joseph II's cousin Meggan the most eligibible Prosek bachelorette right now, she's probably the darling of Chi-Town. Maybe pair her off with Ross Underhill?

There is also a mention of a 2nd cousin Quentin Turnbull (described as Joseph II's cousin) who has a son and 2 daughters. Guys are Cyber-docs, girls are sadly undeveloped much like Prosek's nieces.

Braden Campbell wrote:the head of Triax industries is automatically the vice-president of the NGR...so, I'd be looking in that direction to cement a German/American "Axis of Mankind" (or somesuch)

WB31p24 Viktoria Sperling, hm... sounds interesting but I don't know much about her. She's described as having Pro D-Bee stances and that the Coalition are political critics. Plus she might be pretty old, if she was the CEO of Triax. Probably no spare time for having babies.

Page 44's Monica Greely might work. Not sure how old she is but she has a high PB. Her experience level is high enough to suggest some age, but City Rats don't need as much XP to level and I think it takes less dangerous opponents to make a 'major threat' too so they would also level faster due to that. My guess is she's in her 40s like Ross Underhill is, possibly even 30s like Collins (Lone Star 114) or Claval (Lone Star 118) or Cunningham/Santiago. A City rat could lead a way more active life and reach a high level at a low age compared to a cloistered scientist or military tactician. Anyone know how old Winslow Thorpe is? Tarn's age is mentioned in Africa but I can't find his there or in CWC.

cosmicfish wrote:people are still here enthusiastically and sincerely matchmaking for Rifts' version of Himmler...

cosmicfish wrote:This thread remains the creepiest I have seen on here. Ever. I keep expecting it to be gone, but no, people are still here enthusiastically and sincerely matchmaking for Rifts' version of Himmler...

Egad.

Step right this way Joseph, for the brand new Coalition State television show, 'Find Your Wife'!!!


What follows is nothing more cheesy than 1970's-1980's pre-rifts gameshow music, because nothing is more cheesy than 1970's-1980's pre-rifts gameshow music.

His Dudeness wrote:

cosmicfish wrote:This thread remains the creepiest I have seen on here. Ever. I keep expecting it to be gone, but no, people are still here enthusiastically and sincerely matchmaking for Rifts' version of Himmler...

Egad.

Step right this way Joseph, for the brand new Coalition State television show, 'Find Your Wife'!!!


What follows is nothing more cheesy than 1970's-1980's pre-rifts gameshow music, because nothing is more cheesy than 1970's-1980's pre-rifts gameshow music.

Ya know, now that you said that, this whole thing is starting to seem eerily like the musical "Springtime for Hitler" from The Producers (before the director took over as the star and turned glorification into spoof)...

I know she's inside the CS but what about Loni Kashbrook?
She may be career minded but she adores the Proseks and Jo ll
(Joseph ll) would be a good match for her.

She's an excellent candidate, but she does play a critical role right now and I'm not sure if they can afford losing her management skills at Lone Star. I guess she could still do that when pregnant but it might portray an image of weakness or emotionalism to have someone in charge of the place whose attention might be distracted by a developing fetus.

Might be a good chance to put Ivan Kalpov in charge of the place though. Guy's older, deserves a time to shine.

Also, while the CS can extend human lifespans, I'm not sure if the same applies to years of fertility, anyone know if that's covered? Loni is an attractive enough person and seems healthy in terms of physical performance but I don't know if fertility can be assumed by PE or whatev.

June 21 Edit:

Rifts Sourcebook One (revised/update) page 137, Isabelle Copper of the Republicans, might also be interesting match. Joseph might be a good match if her attitudes harden, or she might soften his, the same way the current head of NGR (former head of Triax) seems to be doing across the Atlantic in Europe.

I would think that a wife for Emperor Prosek would either from a suitable elite CS family to arrange a political alliance or he would pick someone that wouldn't cause strife from a respectable but not too powerful CS family. The marriage celebration might be just the sort of bread and circuses appeal to the common man that could make an interesting backdrop for an adventure. But beyond that such high level machinations are beyond the scope of any Rifts campaign I have ever participated in. A great many people in modern America are fascinated with royalty. Imagine how much the plebs who consume the never ending stream of state propaganda would be frothing.

I think such a "royal wedding" would get all the plebs fired up. i.e. "Emperor Prosek has declared a stay of execution of all criminals for the week of his wedding!" Or better yet: Emperor Prosek has arranged a mass execution of prisoners as a gift to his new bride. Depends how evil you want to play the CS.

The distraction of the week long wedding festivities would provide just the cover our heroes need on their mission to penetrate Chi-town to __blank__ ___blank___.

Just pair him with his most wanted woman. You know every ones favorite writer.

Am thinking it is more Karl who wants her than Joseph. Erin will probably die before Joseph takes over.

How about Isabelle Copper

good idea

How about Shelaine Truman? WB34 (Northern Gun 2) page 24.

Really you guys are missing the obvious choice for the heir to the Coalition.

Skelebot wife. Do a little reprogramming, throw a wig and an apron on it and there you go.

spatulaodoom wrote:Really you guys are missing the obvious choice for the heir to the Coalition.

Skelebot wife. Do a little reprogramming, throw a wig and an apron on it and there you go.

They DO have that runway model figure.

Of yeah wasn't she in the first swimsuit rifter? Rifter 35 pages 38 and 39, named "Tera", by John Zeleznik. "pin-up girl of the coalition army" according to the glossary at the start.

Tera Prosek... that's an empress a grunt could get behind

The Bachelor CS Edition