What American elements survive in Rifts Earth?

[Cyber-Knight]

I’m just wondering what specifically American elements have survived and continued to survive into the present day on Rifts Earth? By that I mean people or groups of people who’ve survived into the present day of Rifts Earth and who still consider themselves to be American. From what I’ve seen, this is what I know of so far:

The Republicans (Sourcebook 1, Revised)
The NEMA Army (Sourcebook 1, Revised)
The Megaversal Legion (South America 2)
The New Navy (Underseas)
Freedom Station (Mutants In Orbit)

Those are all groups of people, organizations, or communities which still consider themselves American in some way (Although the NEMA Army is still on ice, but they’ve survived). Is there anything that I’m missing? Thanks.

[ShadowLogan]

Depending on what you consider "American elements":
-Tundra Rangers (WB20) are former Canadians (Americans)
-Archie-3 would qualify (US research AI)
-Several Pre-Rifts manufacturing sites for SAMAS (Lone Star, Groomlake, Native American Fort) and Glitterboy (FQ) come to mind that were found
-Republic of Japan/Ichito (American Allies, I suspect there would have been some Americans in those cities, if only tourists)
-GAW has sold numerous 20th Century US military items (likely in storage) and refurbish/modernized them (Mercenaries, MercOps, CS Navy)

[Cyber-Knight]

Canadians are Canadians, not Americans (And if we’re referring to the continent, they’re North Americans, which still isn’t American). And I’m thinking more about people who consider themselves Americans or descended, not AI or facilities. Groups of people and organizations.

[Dustin Fireblade]

Briscoe America - WB13, page 13.

It's a CS town, but everyone living there considers themselves Americans, they teach EVERYONE how to read/write American and still fly Old Glory from every front porch.

[Eagle]

Gateway Arch is still there. I would bet Mt Rushmore is probably still there as well.

Dinosaur Swamp says that Disney World is still there, but it’s overgrown and infested by some kind of monsters. Nobody knows what it used to be.

[Curbludgeon]

Canadians are Canadians, not Americans (And if we’re referring to the continent, they’re North Americans, which still isn’t American)

Hundreds of millions of people use the demonym American to refer to everyone in the Americas. I call into question the motivations for people whom see fit to engage in linguistic prescription. Since you're in Miami, ask a first generation Cuban immigrant what the word estadounidense means, then tell them they're wrong.

The Sundance kid is depicted in New West.

[Cyber-Knight]

Hundreds of millions of people use the demonym American to refer to everyone in the Americas.

The America(s). Not America. Moreover, who in North or South America ever refers to themselves as Americans unless they’re in the United States? I live in a city full of immigrants from all over North and South America, and not a one of them would have claimed they were “American” before coming here.

I call into question the motivations for people whom see fit to engage in linguistic prescription.

That’s funny, because I call into question the motives of the people who say things like that. My view is that it’s a form of anti-Americanism. An attempt to deny Americans of their identity.

Since you're in Miami, ask a first generation Cuban immigrant what the word estadounidense means, then tell them they're wrong.

I know exactly what it means, because I am a Cuban. My parents emigrated here. And nobody in my large Cuban family would’ve ever referred to themselves as American prior to coming here (And many still don’t, or claim both nationalities). We say that, yes, and we also say “Americano”. Both terms are synonymous, and whenever either is used, we’re not talking about Hondurans or Brazilians or Canadians, but people from the United States of America.

[Jorick]

Rifts Black Market pg. 24 details Diablo Joe, a preserved advanced cyborg from Area 51 (also, Area 51 itself).

I'm not sure what you're looking for, so it's hard to know what you mean by "consider themselves American." Diablo Joe, for instance, was probably an American at one point, but now he is trying to acclimate to a world in which America as he understood it no longer exists. Diablo Joe is a complicated fellow in a complicated situation, and questions posed by the complications of Diablo Joe could be posed of anyone 300 years removed from a effectively lost civilization.

I'm curious as to what you hope to explore with these organizations in your game. I love ShadowLogan's suggestion of the possibility of American tourists in Japan. Some would probably try to leave Japan and see what has become of their old home. I imagine that, if they were able to make it back, anyone they ran into who claimed to be "American" in 110 PA would cause some argument in their definition of that term. The Canadian Tundra Rangers may then indeed be the most recognizable as "Americans."

[Curbludgeon]

(W)ho in North or South America ever refers to themselves as Americans unless they’re in the United States?

Francophone Canadians, many people from South America outside Brazil, people who realize trying to prescribe definitions after people are using them otherwise is somewhere between a sucker's bet and a red flag, et al.

I live in a city full of immigrants from all over North and South America, and not a one of them would have claimed they were “American” before coming here.

Your predilection for hyperbole has been noted.

My view is that it’s a form of anti-Americanism. An attempt to deny Americans of their identity.

Let me know when you figure out that's precisely what you're doing to a great many Americans. I think instead of variations of United-Stateser a solid demonym could be "One of US". Tell me that wouldn't sell t-shirts.

Is Victor Lazlo's country of birth ever noted? BTS had him active in the US, after which he rifted to the NGR, then went to Africa and (I think) Lazlo, but a quick skim didn't turn up where he was from.

[Khanibal]

30% of all Denny's survived, although it's now a cult, like Amway.

[RockJock]

If you only want US, and not any Canadian or Mexican nationals then throw out chunks of the NEMA frozen army.

[Eagle]

Traditionally the term "American" refers to people from the United States. That's not to say that there are no people in Canada or Guatemala or wherever else that will use that term to describe themselves. But for most people around the world it means the United States. And in my (admittedly limited) experience, many of the people from other nations in North and South America want to distinguish themselves from the United States.

It would be like a guy who is originally from Egypt calling himself African American. Yeah, it's technically correct, Egypt is in Africa. But it's not what people mean when they say that. And while there could be some regions outside of the United States that use the term "American" to describe themselves, it's definitely the exception.

[eliakon]

The trick is that "America" (as we understand the term today) didn't survive the golden age
Seriously
There was a tri-national confederation of semi-sovereign states called NEMA though...

Japan will have tens of thousands of Americans though since there are several rather large Military bases in the Hiroshima region... all of which will have been rifted in.

[taalismn]

30% of all Denny's survived, although it's now a cult, like Amway.

THE GOLDEN ARCHES WILL RISE SUPREME ONCE MORE!! FEAR THE POWER OF THE CLOWN!

[dreicunan]

(W)ho in North or South America ever refers to themselves as Americans unless they’re in the United States?

Francophone Canadians, many people from South America outside Brazil, people who realize trying to prescribe definitions after people are using them otherwise is somewhere between a sucker's bet and a red flag, et al.

I live in a city full of immigrants from all over North and South America, and not a one of them would have claimed they were “American” before coming here.

Your predilection for hyperbole has been noted.

My view is that it’s a form of anti-Americanism. An attempt to deny Americans of their identity.

Let me know when you figure out that's precisely what you're doing to a great many Americans. I think instead of variations of United-Stateser a solid demonym could be "One of US". Tell me that wouldn't sell t-shirts.

Is Victor Lazlo's country of birth ever noted? BTS had him active in the US, after which he rifted to the NGR, then went to Africa and (I think) Lazlo, but a quick skim didn't turn up where he was from.

Standard usage in English is to use "American" to describe citizens of the United States of America. In Spanish, (and other languages), they do use other terms and some speakers use the cognate of "Americano" to refer to people from both continents, though others use it the way that we use "American" in English. Pues, si habláramos español aquí, tendrías un punto, y el término correcto sería "estadounidense." But we don't speak Spanish here, we speak English, and the correct and proper term to refer to citizens of the USA is "Americans." To insist otherwise in an English-speaking situation is ludicrous.

To use "American" as an adjective to describe something or someone from the two continents is also acceptable, but it is not the primary definition, and insiting on doing so with citizens of other countries is a good way to cause confusion.

[Khanibal]

30% of all Denny's survived, although it's now a cult, like Amway.

THE GOLDEN ARCHES WILL RISE SUPREME ONCE MORE!! FEAR THE POWER OF THE CLOWN!

In 108 P.A. a McDonalds restaurant was unearthed near the former Shelbyville, IL. The Tyvek weather protection had actually been affected by the heat and effectively shrink-wrapped the entire structure, preserving it hermetically. Inside was found 3 10-piece McNugget packages under the defunct heat lamp. Still as edible and tasty as they were when they were first cooked.

[RockJock]

The story of Grimace in and the Fry Guys holding last stand during the 2nd Zombie Plague of the Dark Ages is still sung about in Valhalla.

[Nightmask]

The story of Grimace in and the Fry Guys holding last stand during the 2nd Zombie Plague of the Dark Ages is still sung about in Valhalla.

Check out Mallworld, that's not far from the truth of how they see history in that setting. One character has her Saint Betty Crocker medallion she uses in prayer and another swears by Elvis.

[RockJock]

I remember some Shadowrun book talking about a cult of Elvis, where the priests dress as Elvis. Fits perfectly.

[dreicunan]

Clarksdale Confederacy (WB 14 p. 32 - I thiught that they were given more detail somewhere else but don't recall where) survived the Great Cataclysm and has had uninterrupted existence since then, though I'm not sure if they would still consider themselves Americans at this point.

[Eagle]

30% of all Denny's survived, although it's now a cult, like Amway.

THE GOLDEN ARCHES WILL RISE SUPREME ONCE MORE!! FEAR THE POWER OF THE CLOWN!

What do you think Archie 3 really is?

[taalismn]

[

What do you think Archie 3 really is?

Can't be....When Hagan orders up breakfast, ARCHIE-3 responds to him a clear and understandable voice.
"I'd like an egg muffin."
#"eghfphm"#
"And I'd like a small orange juice and a large coffee to go with it, please."
#"smoggullkhffmamamm"#
"That's a SMALL orange juice and a LARGE coffee."
#"smoggullkhffmamamm"#
"No, A SMALL orange juice, LARGE coffee!"
#"lhmoggullkhffmamammffhp"#

[keir451]

I’m just wondering what specifically American elements have survived and continued to survive into the present day on Rifts Earth? By that I mean people or groups of people who’ve survived into the present day of Rifts Earth and who still consider themselves to be American. From what I’ve seen, this is what I know of so far:

The Republicans (Sourcebook 1, Revised)
The NEMA Army (Sourcebook 1, Revised)
The Megaversal Legion (South America 2)
The New Navy (Underseas)
Freedom Station (Mutants In Orbit)

Those are all groups of people, organizations, or communities which still consider themselves American in some way (Although the NEMA Army is still on ice, but they’ve survived). Is there anything that I’m missing? Thanks.

Pretty much all of these.

[Daniel Stoker]

THE GOLDEN ARCHES WILL RISE SUPREME ONCE MORE!! FEAR THE POWER OF THE CLOWN!

We all know they were wiped out when Taco Bell won the Franchise Wars.


Daniel Stoker

[SereneTsunami]

In WB#10 there are two groups that trace their origins to the old American Empire. Kingsdale is the home of a group that began as the US forest Service. El Dorado was began by the remains of the state government on Arkansas.

[shadrak]

The trick is that "America" (as we understand the term today) didn't survive the golden age
Seriously
There was a tri-national confederation of semi-sovereign states called NEMA though...

Japan will have tens of thousands of Americans though since there are several rather large Military bases in the Hiroshima region... all of which will have been rifted in.

Where does the canon say that NEMA was an executive supra-government agency that fundamentally made general policy for all aspects of society?

I thought NEMA was more of military/para-military and emergency response group like a super-NATO. I had also thought that Canada, Mexico, and the US maintained their own military and law enforcement structures and organizations, but NEMA had full power to act in all three jurisdictions.

[eliakon]

The trick is that "America" (as we understand the term today) didn't survive the golden age
Seriously
There was a tri-national confederation of semi-sovereign states called NEMA though...

Japan will have tens of thousands of Americans though since there are several rather large Military bases in the Hiroshima region... all of which will have been rifted in.

Where does the canon say that NEMA was an executive supra-government agency that fundamentally made general policy for all aspects of society?

I thought NEMA was more of military/para-military and emergency response group like a super-NATO. I had also thought that Canada, Mexico, and the US maintained their own military and law enforcement structures and organizations, but NEMA had full power to act in all three jurisdictions.

One of the definitions of Sovereignty in national discourse is the right of law.
When you give up virtually all of your upper level law enforcement (the book states that most federal agencies were rolled into NEMA) then you are giving up a rather large chunk of sovereignty.

Add in the right of NEMA to control military forces in the countries, and their seeming ability to give orders to the national militaries or their ability to over ride national political decisions (such as unilaterally disallowing the US to export Glitter Boys to certain allies)

And yeah, they were not fully sovereign nations anymore as they had ceded large portions of their sovereignty to NEMA.

[shadrak]

The trick is that "America" (as we understand the term today) didn't survive the golden age
Seriously
There was a tri-national confederation of semi-sovereign states called NEMA though...

Japan will have tens of thousands of Americans though since there are several rather large Military bases in the Hiroshima region... all of which will have been rifted in.

Where does the canon say that NEMA was an executive supra-government agency that fundamentally made general policy for all aspects of society?

I thought NEMA was more of military/para-military and emergency response group like a super-NATO. I had also thought that Canada, Mexico, and the US maintained their own military and law enforcement structures and organizations, but NEMA had full power to act in all three jurisdictions.

One of the definitions of Sovereignty in national discourse is the right of law.
When you give up virtually all of your upper level law enforcement (the book states that most federal agencies were rolled into NEMA) then you are giving up a rather large chunk of sovereignty.

Add in the right of NEMA to control military forces in the countries, and their seeming ability to give orders to the national militaries or their ability to over ride national political decisions (such as unilaterally disallowing the US to export Glitter Boys to certain allies)

And yeah, they were not fully sovereign nations anymore as they had ceded large portions of their sovereignty to NEMA.

Does it say that they ceded sovereignty? Or does it say that they adopted the same regulations and NEMA was empowered to enforce all three?

A NEMA officer being a commissioned officer of the U.S. Government does not necessarily preclude a NEMA officer from being empowered to enforce the laws of Canada and Mexico....

I'm just wondering if this is head canon or if you have something that says that American, Canadian, and Mexican governments went away...

[shadrak]

"What about our allies"?

What about their branch of NEMA...

US participation in NATO, indeed, US participation in combined joint operations, does not mean that the US Military ceases to be an American force and is not a NATO force...

I'm just asking if it is canon or head canon...

You have, after all, not simply asserted that it is your opinion. And you have, after all, doubled down...

Given that, I am sure you can cite a source.

[shadrak]

PS: NORAD remains a wholly US agency in canon...

NORAD is a combined force of Canadians and U.S. service members...Canadian service members remain Canadian servicemembers (maybe not in Rifts canon, but in real life) and U.S. Service members remain U.S. service members...

In real life, Europol conducts law enforcement operations across state boundaries--of course, arrest powers remain with the country in which the operation is conducted...

And did the U.S. have a President in Rifts Canon? And what was a USA SAMAS?

And was the USS Ticonderoga a US Navy ship or a NEMA/NEA Navy ship? Did the US Navy cease to exist because of the Rifts or because of political action and government restructuring?

And weren't Glitterboys used by the U.S. Military? When did the Chromium Guardsman get introduced...before or after NEMA and had all of them been transferred to NEMA when the U.S. Military (except the Navy, Marines, and Air Force) were subsumed by NEMA (which became a tri-national FBI, CIA and NSA all rolled into one)?

I don't know the canon answers to all of these questions.

[shadrak]

Does "virtually replaced" mean the same as replaced?

Does working with both federal and local authorities mean that federal authorities do not exist or have no authority?

And does specifying that NEMA worked when there was a law enforcement matter that applied to two or more nations or was a threat to homeland defense mean that NEMA had ultimate authority for law enforcement when a crime was not a threat to homeland security and was contained within the borders of one nation?

I don't have canon...I can offer up some good head canon, though!

If you find the canon answers, let me know.

[shadrak]

PPPPPS:

Assume sovereignty WAS ceded (and it wasn't a situation where the legitimate governments simply coordinated:
1. The opening of national borders
2. Made efforts to create economic parity
3. Allowed for the free exchange of ideas
4. Opened trade and had universal regulations, laws, measures
5. Established a single currency
6. Created a military alliance

Did NEMA's law enforcement capabilities and structure enable it to govern and make law and policy?

[glitterboy2098]

all indications are that it was a "the nations simply coordinated".. NEMA was the only tri-national organization, the NAA members all retained there own governments, laws, and military forces. the North American Alliance (NAA) described on Chaos Earth pg9, looks very much like a European Union type situation. common currency, open borders, the sharing of ideas*, efforts to equalize economies via trade. (*probably similar to the EU's cross-national educational and business opportunities)
Pg 19 talks about the US military as a separate entity from NEMA, and talks about how it was hindred and crippled by the conditions and events of the cataclysm.
Pg20 outlines NEMA's role as a paramilitary police and intelligence force only.

all throughout the chaos earth book, the nations of Canada and Mexico are refered to as separate nations, often as "allies" of the USA.

[shadrak]

all indications are that it was a "the nations simply coordinated".. NEMA was the only tri-national organization, the NAA members all retained there own governments, laws, and military forces. the North American Alliance (NAA) described on Chaos Earth pg9, looks very much like a European Union type situation. common currency, open borders, the sharing of ideas*, efforts to equalize economies via trade. (*probably similar to the EU's cross-national educational and business opportunities)
Pg 19 talks about the US military as a separate entity from NEMA, and talks about how it was hindred and crippled by the conditions and events of the cataclysm.
Pg20 outlines NEMA's role as a paramilitary police and intelligence force only.

all throughout the chaos earth book, the nations of Canada and Mexico are refered to as separate nations, often as "allies" of the USA.

Exactly.

But it is probably important to make note that NEMA, despite the fact that it is not the military (para-military law enforcement/intelligence force) and probably has not subsumed the sovereign governments of Canada, Mexico, and torn up the U.S. constitution and taken power away from the U.S. government...

...is probably still the best funded and equipped force (including military forces...NEMA is MERELY paramilitary, but what I am saying NEMA is probably better funded and equipped than U.S. Army/Navy/Marines/AF and the Canadian and Mexican equivalents because:

1. There are limited threats from other nation states in the pre-Rifts timeline that would compel the partners in NAA to maintain a large military force
2. Within the United States Posse Comitatus will limit the utility of a military force that is confined within the U.S. borders.
3. Given that the USARNG/USAFNG do not have the same limitations as US Army/Navy/AF, this MIGHT explain all of the National Guard/old MDC military gear in Rifts Earth (or it could just be to add low quality Golden Age material to give players a cheaper option).


It is also possible, unless the books say otherwise, that US/Canada/Mexico military forces were swept up by NEMA as a sort of DSCA-type process. And it is possible that US/Canada/Mexico military personnel were temporarily assigned to NEMA as part of a partnering agreement...

Generally, para-military forces that are primarily Law Enforcement/Intelligence in nature don't use military rank, and NEMA's use of military rank could be explained by using military personnel as the core of the organization...and I am sure the thousands of military personnel that might have otherwise been downsized might appreciate the chance to continue service, get paid, and retire by participating in NEMA.

[RockJock]

There are at least a few country level organizations that survive in one form or another like the RCMP/Tundra Rangers.

[Zer0 Kay]

I’m just wondering what specifically American elements have survived and continued to survive into the present day on Rifts Earth? By that I mean people or groups of people who’ve survived into the present day of Rifts Earth and who still consider themselves to be American. From what I’ve seen, this is what I know of so far:

The Republicans (Sourcebook 1, Revised)
The NEMA Army (Sourcebook 1, Revised)
The Megaversal Legion (South America 2)
The New Navy (Underseas)
Freedom Station (Mutants In Orbit)

Those are all groups of people, organizations, or communities which still consider themselves American in some way (Although the NEMA Army is still on ice, but they’ve survived). Is there anything that I’m missing? Thanks.

If I have my way...
USAF (Alyeska)
US Army (Alyeska)
US Navy (Alyeska)
US Marines (Alyeska)
US Sol-C (Alyeska)
Less than 4,000 total, listed in order of predominance

[Shorty Lickens]

30% of all Denny's survived, although it's now a cult, like Amway.

This forum needs an Upvote button.

[llywelyn]

If I have my way...

Again, please, NO. It's been done to death. There's enough TRUE US surviving factions already and we don't need another canon one sitting around in Alaska for no reason. If anything, make some of the eskimos or oil rig companies especially patriotic.

And did the U.S. have a President in Rifts [c]anon?

Yes. The people pretending that NEMA had replaced the US instead of functioning as a sort of tighter, smaller NATO are passing hot air, similar to the guy who tried to pretend he didn't understand what "American" means and then scolded an actual Cubano on his grasp of the Spanish and English languages.

The US is solidly part of Rifts canon. Iirc, the entire chain of command was wiped out by the tsunamis coming off of the returned Atlantis but that might be from sth in the Rifters that's outside of canon proper.

[Zer0 Kay]

If I have my way...

Again, please, NO. It's been done to death. There's enough TRUE US surviving factions already and we don't need another canon one sitting around in Alaska for no reason. If anything, make some of the eskimos or oil rig companies especially patriotic.

And did the U.S. have a President in Rifts [c]anon?

Yes. The people pretending that NEMA had replaced the US instead of functioning as a sort of tighter, smaller NATO are passing hot air, similar to the guy who tried to pretend he didn't understand what "American" means and then scolded an actual Cubano on his grasp of the Spanish and English languages.

The US is solidly part of Rifts canon. Iirc, the entire chain of command was wiped out by the tsunamis coming off of the returned Atlantis but that might be from sth in the Rifters that's outside of canon proper.

Really? Where is US DOD besides New Navy who aren't really US DOD. NEMA? NEMA isn't DOD either. Yeah... because the Eskimos and Oil Rig workers are more likely to survive the coming of the Rifts the oil rigs have all likely been severed from their umbilical and toppled. The Eskimo do survive but it is more likely that a well armed, well trained military organization would survive.

[llywelyn]

...but it is more likely that a well armed, well trained military organization would survive.

Yes, just like it already has. As this thread documents, repeatedly. Every 3 world books or so.

Leaving aside that it's more likely the oil rig companies (not the derricks themselves at first but their "automated repair and manufacturing centers"™) survived than that anyone important to the chain of command was permanently stationed in Alaska, leaving aside that the commander of the flagship of the US Navy would outrank whoever had misbehaved so much they were exiled to HAARP or whatever else is stationed in Alaska, I'm not questioning that many survived the holocaust. The entire premise of the setting is that it's taken 200+ years to put society back together... a premise that becomes increasingly less plausible as absolutely every inhabited corner of the earth turns out to have a surviving command and manufacturing chain from the US DOD... A command that has not only done nothing for the last 200+ years but failed to communicate and coordinate with the other survivors in any meaningful way... for 200+ years.

It's great, it's fun, but it's been done to death by this point. I guess it's fine for Rifter articles (although I'd rather have a ruin like NORAD for my players to go through) but you should really stick with newer, more original stuff for a new book. If you need to have someone survive with high tech, have it be some other interesting country, not yet another faction of True Americans.

Just my 2c. Obviously KS will be the one signing your checks or not.

[Axelmania]

Southern border wall, vampires would have no use in knocking it down (they can fly over as bat/mist, tunnel under using MD claws) but would find it a great way to slow down potential food trying to flee from them, or they could use the wall to hide and ambush people trying to get past it.

In the process of escaping these tactics, I can see holes being blown in it, of course. Vampries would probably try to repair these holes by plugging them with junk and it would slow people down but look bad.

[eliakon]

...but it is more likely that a well armed, well trained military organization would survive.

Yes, just like it already has. As this thread documents, repeatedly. Every 3 world books or so.

Leaving aside that it's more likely the oil rig companies (not the derricks themselves at first but their "automated repair and manufacturing centers"™) survived than that anyone important to the chain of command was permanently stationed in Alaska, leaving aside that the commander of the flagship of the US Navy would outrank whoever had misbehaved so much they were exiled to HAARP or whatever else is stationed in Alaska, I'm not questioning that many survived the holocaust. The entire premise of the setting is that it's taken 200+ years to put society back together... a premise that becomes increasingly less plausible as absolutely every inhabited corner of the earth turns out to have a surviving command and manufacturing chain from the US DOD... A command that has not only done nothing for the last 200+ years but failed to communicate and coordinate with the other survivors in any meaningful way... for 200+ years.

It's great, it's fun, but it's been done to death by this point. I guess it's fine for Rifter articles (although I'd rather have a ruin like NORAD for my players to go through) but you should really stick with newer, more original stuff for a new book. If you need to have someone survive with high tech, have it be some other interesting country, not yet another faction of True Americans.

Just my 2c. Obviously KS will be the one signing your checks or not.

Well just to make a point here...
But the "new navy" is 100% deserters so thats not 'patriotic survivors' but mutiners and deserters lead by a bandit king who apes airs and is about as American as Prosek and are a disgrace to the name navy and marine.
Seriously... The US has a major military disaster... and instead of responding to it in any meaningful way such as oh... getting in touch with NEMA. He runs and hides for a generation and then stays hidden and makes zero effort to find and contact anyone for well over a century.
Thats desertion.

(sorry, this is one of my pet peeves)

[Zer0 Kay]

...but it is more likely that a well armed, well trained military organization would survive.

Yes, just like it already has. As this thread documents, repeatedly. Every 3 world books or so.

Leaving aside that it's more likely the oil rig companies (not the derricks themselves at first but their "automated repair and manufacturing centers"™) survived than that anyone important to the chain of command was permanently stationed in Alaska, leaving aside that the commander of the flagship of the US Navy would outrank whoever had misbehaved so much they were exiled to HAARP or whatever else is stationed in Alaska, I'm not questioning that many survived the holocaust. The entire premise of the setting is that it's taken 200+ years to put society back together... a premise that becomes increasingly less plausible as absolutely every inhabited corner of the earth turns out to have a surviving command and manufacturing chain from the US DOD... A command that has not only done nothing for the last 200+ years but failed to communicate and coordinate with the other survivors in any meaningful way... for 200+ years.

It's great, it's fun, but it's been done to death by this point. I guess it's fine for Rifter articles (although I'd rather have a ruin like NORAD for my players to go through) but you should really stick with newer, more original stuff for a new book. If you need to have someone survive with high tech, have it be some other interesting country, not yet another faction of True Americans.

Just my 2c. Obviously KS will be the one signing your checks or not.

Aww... how nice. It's another cryo army. They haven't restored the ol us of a because they technically arent around. I'm just going to put a new type of DOD character in for all the popsicles. But one that doesnt test officers as being high leveled enlisted. Enlisted are enlisted unless they become Mustangs.

[Zer0 Kay]

...but it is more likely that a well armed, well trained military organization would survive.

Yes, just like it already has. As this thread documents, repeatedly. Every 3 world books or so.

Leaving aside that it's more likely the oil rig companies (not the derricks themselves at first but their "automated repair and manufacturing centers"™) survived than that anyone important to the chain of command was permanently stationed in Alaska, leaving aside that the commander of the flagship of the US Navy would outrank whoever had misbehaved so much they were exiled to HAARP or whatever else is stationed in Alaska, I'm not questioning that many survived the holocaust. The entire premise of the setting is that it's taken 200+ years to put society back together... a premise that becomes increasingly less plausible as absolutely every inhabited corner of the earth turns out to have a surviving command and manufacturing chain from the US DOD... A command that has not only done nothing for the last 200+ years but failed to communicate and coordinate with the other survivors in any meaningful way... for 200+ years.

It's great, it's fun, but it's been done to death by this point. I guess it's fine for Rifter articles (although I'd rather have a ruin like NORAD for my players to go through) but you should really stick with newer, more original stuff for a new book. If you need to have someone survive with high tech, have it be some other interesting country, not yet another faction of True Americans.

Just my 2c. Obviously KS will be the one signing your checks or not.

Well just to make a point here...
But the "new navy" is 100% deserters so thats not 'patriotic survivors' but mutiners and deserters lead by a bandit king who apes airs and is about as American as Prosek and are a disgrace to the name navy and marine.
Seriously... The US has a major military disaster... and instead of responding to it in any meaningful way such as oh... getting in touch with NEMA. He runs and hides for a generation and then stays hidden and makes zero effort to find and contact anyone for well over a century.
Thats desertion.

(sorry, this is one of my pet peeves)

Lol. I agree.