Languages

[tundro]

Personally, I would have to go with the "nothing is impossible" way of thinking. It is HIGHLY improbable, considering that a vast majority of the world isn't literate in their own language, let alone a language that was considered archaic before the cataclysm. IF any books still existed that were written in latin, probably only a few language nuts would even know it ever existed. So to my way of thinking, not impossible but HIGHLY improbable.

[Zamion138]

Rifts japan, yes most deffintly, roman catholic priests that were in that city at the time of the rifts would have spoken and been able to read it.
NGR if christianity was still around in the golden age then yeah again it would have survived if only for catholic rituals.

NA got beaten down alot harder than europe or japan, but it borders mexico and has conections to SA wich are heavily catholic so gain i see it surviving as long as humanity hadnt left relgion behind in the golden age.

[Akashic Soldier]

I think that its very likely that there are antediluvian civilizations (Atlatnis, Lemuria, or Nazca) that would have an understanding of Latin (even the spoken word which is something we do not have today). Thus, anyone else could (in my opinion). However, to be sure I'd have to research dates and make sure that the language was not developed while these cultures were off-world.

Also, Wizard Powers Activate!

If nothing else, in theory, someone with eyes of Thoth and tongues could read the alphabet aloud and have it recorded on an audio-device, and then they could reconstruct the language that way.

[Dunia]

NGR if christianity was still around in the golden age then yeah again it would have survived if only for catholic rituals.

To disagree with your comment:
Germany was the cradle of the Lutheran and protestant faith. One part of the Lutheran and Protestant Faiths are that the Scripture should be read in the language of the nation, and thus the use of Latin as a religious language was abolished.

Latin is a dead language in 2013, with no native speakers. Only those who actively study the language use it and very few of them use it in other ways than decipher old text and archaeological finds.

To support your comment:
There are in 2010 about 25 million catholics in germany, so there might be a minority in Pre-Apocalypse/Post Apocalypse NGR that still adheres to that faith, but the language would probably be used by the priests and church, not as a language for all Catholics.

Germany is one of the leading nations in the advanced university research in the field of the history of Christianity and there are many very good places of learning where you can study and use latin. Hence there might be in Post-Apocalypse NGR still books that are circulated from the old days that can help people read latin.

[Akashic Soldier]

I think that its very likely that there are antediluvian civilizations (Atlatnis, Lemuria, or Nazca) that would have an understanding of Latin (even the spoken word which is something we do not have today). Thus, anyone else could (in my opinion). However, to be sure I'd have to research dates and make sure that the language was not developed while these cultures were off-world.

Also, Wizard Powers Activate!

If nothing else, in theory, someone with eyes of Thoth and tongues could read the alphabet aloud and have it recorded on an audio-device, and then they could reconstruct the language that way.

Did you mean that there are no native speakers of Latin or that no one speaks Latin anymore?

Latin is a dead language (has been for a while) so no one ACTUALLY knows how to speak it. Fascinating, right?

[flatline]

I think the situation is that Latin has been dead for so long that nobody knows what conversational Latin even sounds like.

--flatline

[Zamion138]

I think the situation is that Latin has been dead for so long that nobody knows what conversational Latin even sounds like.

--flatline

Or maybe were speaking conversational latin and we just call it something diffrent...


(Insert meme image of ted)


True
But its not nearly as bad as say Sanskrit

[Akashic Soldier]

I think the situation is that Latin has been dead for so long that nobody knows what conversational Latin even sounds like.

--flatline

[glitterboy2098]

I think that its very likely that there are antediluvian civilizations (Atlatnis, Lemuria, or Nazca) that would have an understanding of Latin (even the spoken word which is something we do not have today). Thus, anyone else could (in my opinion). However, to be sure I'd have to research dates and make sure that the language was not developed while these cultures were off-world.

'antediluvian' is a term meaning 'before the deluge(biblical flood)', and hasn't been an accepted term for the better part of a century. but it is sometimes used colloquially still to refer to things of ambigious but ancient age, so i'll let it sit with just the explanation.


the biggest issue with that idea though is that the very age of those 'lost' civilizations prevents them from knowing languages like latin.

Atlantis vanished over 10,000 years ago, coinciding roughly with the end of the last major ice age. (which might at least allow for 'antediluvian' to be used in an accurate form, since the end of said ice age involved the flooding of most coastlines due to sea level rise.. and is believed to be part of the reason for why so many ancient coastal cultures have myths about great floods.)
Latin didn't exist as a recognizable language until about the 3nd century BCE, leaving a gap of about 7,700 years give or take a few centuries.
Old latin was very different from the latin we are most familiar with. old latin evolved into 'classical latin' by the 1st century CE, with the development of the early roman empire.
the latin we recognize and which is taught today didn't exist until the middle ages (about 900 to 1600 CE)

individual True Atlantian dimensional wanderers might have learned various forms of latin in their travels, but the Atlantean civilization predates even the Indo-european language group!

the Lemurian civ went into hiding 10,000 years ago, and had no contact with earth for that whole time. so not only do they predate even the root language group that evolved into latin, but they didn't have a chance to learn it the way true atlantean refugees might.

there might be some of the Ecclesiastical latin used in catholic services left in the Empire of the Sun in rifts SA, but the Nazca civ vanished long before the spanish arrived.. and the inca civ only learned latin after it was conquered and converted.

[flatline]

I think the situation is that Latin has been dead for so long that nobody knows what conversational Latin even sounds like.

--flatline

So monks and priest that have been taught And passed down Latin since the Middle Ages don't know what Latin sounds like?

A conversational version of a language and the formal written version of a language are very different things.

Imagine trying to imagine how people talked hundreds of years ago if your only sample of the English language was the King James Bible or the complete works of Shakespeare.

--flatline

[Akashic Soldier]

but it is sometimes used colloquially still to refer to things of ambigious but ancient age, so i'll let it sit with just the explanation.

If you know my intended meaning, than why clarify?

the biggest issue with that idea though is that the very age of those 'lost' civilizations prevents them from knowing languages like latin.

Atlantis vanished over 10,000 years ago, coinciding roughly with the end of the last major ice age. (which might at least allow for 'antediluvian' to be used in an accurate form, since the end of said ice age involved the flooding of most coastlines due to sea level rise.. and is believed to be part of the reason for why so many ancient coastal cultures have myths about great floods.)
Latin didn't exist as a recognizable language until about the 3nd century BCE, leaving a gap of about 7,700 years give or take a few centuries.
Old latin was very different from the latin we are most familiar with. old latin evolved into 'classical latin' by the 1st century CE, with the development of the early roman empire.
the latin we recognize and which is taught today didn't exist until the middle ages (about 900 to 1600 CE)

I didn't know that off the top of my head, which is why I said I'd have to check dates. Still, its cool you did it for me. I wasn't going to anyways; been too busy.

P.S.: Flatline is exactly right. There is more to it as well, especially regarding the history of the latin language as we know it today, but if I tell anyone than they won't run off and research it in an effort to prove me wrong and learn for themselves. Curse this whole, judge the message by the messenger thing. It makes helping/educating people hard.

[Zamion138]

But we basicly know formal version of it not really how it was used.
Did they slang up alot of things to say dude or the like or how words get used to mean things they dont mean.....like ohhh he hella burned me last time we chilled.
Does that mean last time we cooled down her used something hot to hurt me? No.
Thats why latins dead as it has stoped evolving

[ZorValachan]

I think the situation is that Latin has been dead for so long that nobody knows what conversational Latin even sounds like.

--flatline

So monks and priest that have been taught And passed down Latin since the Middle Ages don't know what Latin sounds like?

A conversational version of a language and the formal written version of a language are very different things.

Imagine trying to imagine how people talked hundreds of years ago if your only sample of the English language was the King James Bible or the complete works of Shakespeare.

--flatline

I agree with Glitterboy2098, except that the Latin I was taught was classical Latin (Caesar's Gaullic Wars, Virgil, Cattulus, Ovid, etc.) and not later church Latin.
as for conversational Latin. We today (not sure about Rifts) hundreds of graffitti Latin slang and common speech including vulgar (sex acts, variations, fart jokes, etc) as well as comedies which used more general speech. So we do know a lot. Rifts maybe more or less, If a roman citizen got rifted in.

[nilgravity]

There would be people who know latin and people who know different versions of latin from Rifts Earth. If cowboys and Victor Lazlo can Rift through time so could a latin speaking person.

[glitterboy2098]

I agree with Glitterboy2098, except that the Latin I was taught was classical Latin (Caesar's Gaullic Wars, Virgil, Cattulus, Ovid, etc.) and not later church Latin.
as for conversational Latin. We today (not sure about Rifts) hundreds of graffitti Latin slang and common speech including vulgar (sex acts, variations, fart jokes, etc) as well as comedies which used more general speech. So we do know a lot. Rifts maybe more or less, If a roman citizen got rifted in.

there are casual speakers of latin in norway, including several talk radio programs. but those are all basically just fans of the language indulging a hobby.

the reason the language is classified as a 'dead' language is that there aren't any 'native' speakers of it.. that is, people for whom it is their primary and cultural language. lots of people who learned it (in the various forms) as an additional language though.
a native latin speaker rifting in, either through time or from another universe where/when the language is still 'alive' could be a fun plot element..

[ZorValachan]

somehow my post got a partial sentence deleted. Must be because I was rushing from my room in vegas to see a show What I wanted to state was that today we have hundreds of examples of conversational and slang Latin. Graffitti on walls, comedies, and even some poetry (Cattullus does the most hilarious vulgar poetry). We also have knowledge of pronounciation and how it changed by Church latin (such as V being pronounced as W, so Caesar's statement of Veni Vidi Vici sounded in speech at his time like Weni Widi Wici. And sorry, if something in this post is unclear, I just got back from the show...
Apparently the new vegas saying is "What happens in Vegas stays...on facebook"

[Dunia]

I think that its very likely that there are antediluvian civilizations (Atlatnis, Lemuria, or Nazca) that would have an understanding of Latin (even the spoken word which is something we do not have today). Thus, anyone else could (in my opinion). However, to be sure I'd have to research dates and make sure that the language was not developed while these cultures were off-world.

Also, Wizard Powers Activate!

If nothing else, in theory, someone with eyes of Thoth and tongues could read the alphabet aloud and have it recorded on an audio-device, and then they could reconstruct the language that way.

Did you mean that there are no native speakers of Latin or that no one speaks Latin anymore?

Latin is a dead language (has been for a while) so no one ACTUALLY knows how to speak it. Fascinating, right?

Actually this is wrong.
The Catholic Church and some protestant denominations in Europe still teaches Latin and use it.

I have studied Latin myself for 5 years, both in high school and in University and as well as Classical Greek; Koine Greek and Hebrew. When I was in Rome and visited the Vatican State with my class in High School, i was able to converse in Latin with two priests there. Also, I have used Latin when I have been travelling to speak with priests and scholars in South America (Much because my Spanish and Portuguese is bad and Latin is easier for me to use).

Now that I do my PhD I am happy that I did study my Latin :)

So Latin is a dead language as it no longer has native speakers.
It is not a forgotten language

[Dunia]

Just to show that latin is not dead, here is a lesson:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIAdHEwiAy8

[kaid]

I know I have asked this question before and the hubby and I have differing views on who the majority agreed with so I'm going to ask again Do you think that on Rifts earth it would be impossible for someone to know Latin (reading not speaking). I argue that while it would be rare there may still be people that can read it, just like today there are people that are experts and can read dead languages. I would like to know what others think.

I think it would be possible if rare they don't talk to much about modern day religion but the mentions of it do indicate it still exists and I would not be surprised if catholics manage to preserve it. Given spanish is common enough somebody who really wanted to decipher it has enough information from languages that broke off from latin to retrace enough to at least get by. Then there is the whole fun and games of magic allowing you to read anything if you know the right spell. Knowing for a fact what something says makes deciphering the actual language incredibly easier.